@ Buddha "I bet you Rod would soil himself before he ever sat in with my band."
Yes, I'm sure he would. He's only made 25 albums with his band. 20 albums as a guest player, gigged all over the world, has a huge following, plays innovative diatonic and chromatic harp.
Tell us, oh humble Buddha. How many albums have you made? Can you even play chromatic?
"The art of improvisation is not what you can do on your own tune but rather what you can do with somebody else's tune."
The ultimate form of expression is to create something totally original, from scratch as in creating the music and the lyric.
Is this not the ethos of this forum ?
Never imitate, just innovate. Surely playing over someone else's tune is just copying?
I do it all the time, but I'm just a traditional blues player,what do I know?
"HA HA HA Thomas, I sat in with Rod and Honey 10 years ago and smoked him"
LOL...the size of some of the egos on here can only be matched by the size of their bellies. Oh well,I guess it's like religion and politics...life goes on without them. Enuff said from me on this one.
I realy like guy belanger, sonny boy williamson, jason ricci, and patrick esposito dinapolli.. Of course howard levy is a technical master.. but in my opinion, sonny boy is alot better.. not for technical things.. but for the feeling..
Rod swings hard as hell, no doubt. But Kim is a tireless, muscular, inventive player, and I'm not sure I'd take your odds, Joe Lee. That would be an interesting matchup. There was a video kicking around here some months back in which both men were on the same stage, along with a handful of other players. Rod certainly rose to the occasion. But my sense is that Kim is used to being the strongest guy on every stage he takes, and it would be good to see him play when he was seriously trying to cut heads. I don't think I'd bet against him. I think he'd rise to the occasion.
Post videos!
Actually, I'll start. Here's the video. Rod starts his solo around 2:31. After Bharath plays, these are three harp guys trying to blow each other off the stage, coming up with wilder moves than the other guys.
I love what Rod plays. He moves up to the top with unexpected leaps several times, then back down. But does he blow Kim off the stage? No.
what has Kim Wilson invented. His "Trust My Baby" is a total rip-off in G in first off Sonny Boy. "Humping to Please" is another lame copy of Walter..with licks from Crazy Legs. Just changed the key around a little. Those are for starters. Am I supposed to be intimidated by his big biceps? I admit to personally never inventing a thing, I steal right and left. And there are only probably 40,000 harp players out there who can blow me away..but then I am not a big wheel. The thing that has always annoyed me about Wilson is this 'sacred cow' gets away with the same thing and nobody ever calls his hand on it. Confusing times in which we live I guess. Regards, Me
the video is just harmonica wanking...and the sound quality is poor enough that any nuance is out the window. there is no way to make the argument from this recording that any of these guys is or is not the worlds top player
Just thought of something. Since this place is called "Dirty-South Blues Harp forum" I was assuming the "best player" stuff here was referring to that type of music...Blues. And I would still lay 8-5 in favor of Piazza. After seeing that video and the presentation made by Wilson, I am more than ever convinced that he's a loser from the gate against Piazza in a straight up gambling session. If anybody ever puts something like that together in a civilized context..I'd like to have half the bet of the Piazza backers. As far as "best player in the world" goes, I have no skills whatsoever or background to comment on that. Although some of the stuff I've heard from other countries is simply wonderful and beautiful to hear. Regards, Me (and believe me that's the last remark from me on this)
Hmmmm.....If this thread is turning to "cuttin headz"...I can't imagine anyone wanting to take on Jason....period.
Assemble a public audience of 1000....have the top dozen or so players mentioned in this thread do 5 minutes of solo improv and another 5 with a band..whatever they want to play.....then ask the audience who blew them away with harmonica brilliance.
These types of thread always end up so entertaining.
@joeleebush - You assumption that the "best player" stuff here was referring to Blues never tests true here. There are only a handful of us that actually listen to and enjoy Blues music. Many of the players barely scratch the surface of the Blues.
i knoooow! PPP= pass the popcorn please. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 10:13 AM
/I think players who can blend in and almost NOT be noticed are undervalued. Musicality is not necessarily best demonstrated by stomping over the rest of the band!/
I coudn't agree more.
EDIT: or by stomping over others full stop. What's the saying about cutting others down to make oneself taller?
@JoeLee: I don't know who you're referring to when you talk about people being afraid to call out Kim Wilson. God knows I've done my best to think critically about today's top players, including Kim, rather than treating them as the gods they're often assumed to be, and I've taken a lot of heat for doing so. By the same token, my desire to see and hear as clearly as possible what those players are doing, AND my desire to acknowledge solid professionalism for what it is, means that I don't mind spinning on my heels and offering praise in one context to a player whom I may view with (antagonizing!) critical distance in another context.
Kim Wilson, who I've seen live half a dozen times over the past 20 years, deserves better than your sour dismissal. Sure, he can "do" Sonny Boy and Little Walter, but he does a lot more than that. I've heard him go off on a 12-15 minute SOLO amplified harp cadenza while his band leaves the stage, and he is a master in that context. The stuff he plays in such a context owes nothing to Sonny Boy and LW. It's his own thing. And his instrumentals like "Jumpin' Bad" and "Down at Antone's" are also, as I hear them, something new and distinctive; neither of them owes much to SB and LW.
It may be true that, as he's aged, and as he's gigged with his own blues combo rather than the T-Birds (and as the T-Birds have become in some sense a T-Birds tribute band rather than the actively creating ensemble they were in the late 70s and early 80s), he has moved somewhat closer to his influences. But he's still an exceptional player who stands at or near the top of the contemporary heap--one of the top five living blues harmonica players, by any estimation, surely--because of how consistently good he is in every context, not because he's fooled everybody into overlooking how purely derivative he is. (I view his contributions to the soundtrack of CADILLAC RECORDS, in which he blew straight-up Chicago 50's stuff, to be an aspect of his professionalism. He aced the gig.) You're not being fair to the guy. Ad hominem sneers at his biceps are part of that. The man takes care of himself. Nothing wrong with that.
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 11:04 AM
Boy Kim Wilson's highend lick on "Trust my baby" was alittle beyond what anyone was doing in the fifties. I spent a couple hours listening to Tiger Man years ago. Massive Tone! As adam said I also saw him 20 years ago and he was one of the best in the world at that time! I've seen him a few times and he's a blues player like Rod. There not trying to play like howard levy or jason ricci.
Kim is a brilliant player, but takes many,many licks and phrases from other players.
Rod is far more original in his playing. His homage to LW, Too Late Brother is a great example of this. He plays the LW solo note for note then finishes with a superb original solo of his own that owes nothing to LW or anyone else.
He has loads of classic songs that are the standards for anyone who wants to play West Coast swing.
Frankly,I'm getting a bit tired of this worlds-best this and worlds greatest that... To me it's just a matter of taste,what you like..
Howard,Buddha,Toots...great players,but their playing does nothing for me. I actually get bored after listening a minute or two. Even their blues-stuff I find a bit boring. I would much rather listen for hours on a guy like Heart2harp(Mathieu)than some of the guys I mentioned above. Maybe I haven't understood things,I don't know.. But at least I've learned something today. It's not about playing and listening to things you like. It's not about entertaining other people. It's about making people soil their pants...or make them cry..or have I gotten it wrong?
Mister Adam, sir YOU are the one who first mentioned Wilson as muscular, not me. I seized the word and want to know why that has anything to do with his harmonica playing. I know the routine, I've been around that block too with the weights and the sleeveless tank tops and finally I realized that all it made me look like was just what it is...some barroom loafer who just stepped off the bus and is now playing harmonica and wants (and they all WANT it) me to pay money to watch him. Wilson cannot dance. He is about as graceful as a bear on ice. His stage attire is ridiculous. He has a very good voice and he can damn well play that harmonica like he was born with it in his mouth. I've never met him although I saw him sit in at the Northside Tavern here in Atlanta once. He may be an extremely likeable fellow. He probably would think I am just a no good worn out old bum..(which I proudly admit to being). However, he is not the be all and end all for the blues harmonica. In fact I think you play better than him. I think Estrin wipes the floor with him too. And then someone says..."what about YOU, oh great Joe Lee?" My reply is as always, most anyone can play better than me, literally THOUSANDS of them. Also I am a customer with the dough and I will pay to hear whomever I choose and trash them at will. Just as they will do me. I am going to look up that tune "jumpin bad" and I bet I can play it note for note within 3 days of fooling with it. I can't say the same for Piazza's "Harpburn" though...that took some work. As for this "being fair" stuff...since when is it a rule to "be fair"????? Nothing is fair. I suppose the "thought police" will beat me up for not being "fair"? If you worked those streets in the past don't tell me you haven't had someone say "why don't you put that phony harmonica down, stop begging, and get a real job" That's not a very "fair" thing to say is it? Was it "fair" all those years when I was denied gigs by black club owners because "white guys aren't supposed to be able to play that stuff"? (after I had been beaten in the head by police for walking in civil rights picket lines). I still get some of that stuff today from black pups who never sat on the back of the bus in their lives..they're too darn young. Yep, I resent it...I resent it but I live with it..every day. And I love playing my blues, making some money, and having fun. As Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee sang...."we may be fighting a losing battle, but having a lot of fun trying to win". By the way, if that was Wilson playing on Cadillac Records movie, then he needs to get in some practice. Selah Me
Without getting into any arguments about who is better than who, I think the player whose work I return to the most is Brendan Power. I haven't ever heard him play anything that isn't incredibly expressive. I also think he's really interesting and innovative. He's like the Michael Hedges of harmonica for me -- every time I listen to him, I am transported.
Some of Jason Ricci's studio work is incredible -- I think that most harmonica players take opportunities to exhibit their chops, or whatever, but I don't ever hear Jason doing that. Instead, I feel like his playing galvanizes the song, it strains at the seams of the rhythm and the guitar. I really like that. And don't get anybody started on the live performances...
So, while I recognize the technical brilliance of players like Buddha and Levy, admire the innovation of players like Dr. Gussow, and enjoy listening to many others, I'll always return to Power and Ricci. Especially Power.
Concerning K.Wilson's "Jumpin Bad" Just downloaded it and have been into it for 5 minutes...a piece of cake. LOL Just a cheap attempt at fusing Walter's "Rocker" with some passages from "Back Track" and a lot of fooling around on the 3 hole draw...(missing the chance to distort it in a number of key spots). The 3-4 warble using the nose for breathing in, is a nice move..old and totally Walter for the purity of tone. (although again he missed the chance to bend that warble of 3-4) I'm surprised he even knew about that, he's done some homework. Listen..if this old man here can almost play the darn thing note for note this quickly (5 MINUTES?)...then ANYBODY can. Now gents...I welcome all those "bull, you cant do that", "prove it", "you're lying", "you're just being tough guy behind your keyboard", comments by the droves. You cannot imagine how much I enjoy being hated. Make my day. Merry Christmas. LOL LOL LOL PIAZZA rules! selah Me
I certainly know that I can't separate what I like from what is best. Nor do I try. On the other hand, I wouldn't claim anyone is best. And there isn't anyone whose playing I always like.
I know Tooka is a peaceful fun loving guy and it doesn't seem in character that he even posed this question.
Joe, I dint understand why you are commenting on kims image? What doEs that have to do with his playing? For instance, you strike me as a general a-hole but that doesn't mean that thought will Affect my views of your musical ability. ---------- I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
Diversity: Howard levy Badassitude: Kim Wilson Passion: Jason ricci ---------- I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
Chef Denis has some serious tone in that video with Kim Wilson and Rick Estrin at the Langham Hotel.
@Oda - Joe Lee comes across as a dude I'd like to hang with. He listens to the music and he calls it as he sees it. We may not see eye to eye, but I appreciate a straight shooter.
*Joe, I dint understand why you are commenting on kims image? What doEs that have to do with his playing?*
Joe Lee sez.. It has something to do with his playing because I CHOOSE to say it does. And that's reason enough. Isn't democracy wonderful. Regards, JoeLee
Joe L? I like to play harp, tell lies, and sip on good whiskey. If you're at the Hill Country deal in May, I will probably be broke as usual, but we can find a way to do all of the above and cast a harsh light of reality on some of the big shots. I'm not scheduled for the big stage but in my teaching sessions I will be playing some stuff..maybe it will be educational. At the least it will be amusing. (Man, some of these guys are going to have a ball ripping my little performance to shreds..LOL) Its all good.. Regards, Me
@tmf: Thank you! That's what I'm talking about. That is muscular playing. (Note to JoeLee: I'm talking about the strength of the music, not about the guy's body.) Awesome stuff. About six minutes into the solo, it suddenly occurred to me that Kim was starting to echo Little Walter a little bit. He flirted with the ghost, then went back to his own thing. That's what I like. That's a wonderful video, and I've favorited it. I would not want to get onstage with Kim Wilson. He's a badass. That video is the stuff that I remember being blown away by, live. I'm glad he's still doing it. He's playing Kim Wilson all the way.
About Hill Country Harmonica 2011: I spoke to Jason on the phone yesterday and he said he's coming up from New Orleans if he can get a ride.
Jimi Lee is also coming.
Oda: I agree with your picks. Let's add Brendan Power for alternate tunings and Jon Popper for rock harp.
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 8:19 PM
@Adam - why wouldn't you want to be onstage with him? I think it would be fun. Chef Denis didn't seem to mind being onstage with Kim and Rick. He held his own and didn't embarrass himself at all.
Current world's top player today? The question of course is never answerable, just as "World's top player of all time? is never answerable. One has to put the question in the context of
(a) the type of music being referred to, and (b) the music liked by the replier.
Here's an example-- I've read two pages of responses, and have seen only one or two mentions of classical music players. What, they don't count? They're not eligible for consideration? (I rarely listen to them, because I don't listen to classical music, but I recognize their mastery of the instrument).
As I mention in almost every post I make, I am a stone cold blues freak. I have been since I was twelve. The harmonica players mentioned as being able to play "every kind of music, including blues", may be able to do that, but they don't move me/touch me/impress me when I listen to their blues offerings. They might hit the right notes, but miss the essence and true passion of the blues-- not because they lack skill, but because they lack that elusive, indefinable quality known as soul. It may be indefinable, but a few in the forum know what it is.
Let me back off a bit-- the virtuostic, super skillful harmonica players mentioned in this thread have a kind of "soul" for the music they feel, but it ain't blues, and they fall flat when they play blues. Here's a player mentioned only once, but illustrative of the point-- Charlie McCoy is a wonderful, skillful, virtuostic, inventive harmonica player when it comes to country, but he falls flat when he plays the blues. Listen to "Harpin' the Blues", from 1975-- he proved to the world that he really is a country player, not a blues player.
Two people, Michael Rubin and joeleebush, put Rick Estrin at or near the top. I put him at the top, in a blues context only; the only context I feel qualified to comment on. There is no point in comparing classical players with country players with jazz players with blues players with rock players with "I just play music, don't categorize me!" players.
So for blues only, Rick Estrin is the top player. Here are some aspects of his playing that make me say this: he's a virtuoso, he's creative, he never hits a sour or off key note, he tongue blocks as if he was born doing it, he has a wonderful rhythmic fluidity to his playing, and last but not least, he has tons of soul.
