Do any of you use them? Any suggestions on how to utilize the top 4 holes?
I stopped by a music store when I was in NYC this weekend, and they had a bunch of these harps in stock. They were priced well so I thought it would be cool to get a low C.
I am baffled by the extra 4 holes. I've searched the forum archive with little luck on the subject. (This is not a SBS)
I think the tuning is: Hole 11 12 13 14 Draw B D F A Blow E G C E
I can't figure a logical way to think about the draw notes... any suggestions?
I have one in A that I've had for many years, and I occasionally trot it out. The lower register on mine is a "regular" pitched A, and then the rest is a high A. It will cut thru the mix, but imagine it being even higher in pitch than a high G harp. I think if I had a low C I might play it more. I want to tear it apart soon and seal the wood/replace it with dymondwood and get some reedwork done.
I've played mine up near the top and it's fine-but the last hole is dead, which trips me up.
Crescent City Harmonica Club Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Oct 13, 2010 5:11 AM
I've always wanted to try one, but I still don't have one. I think if I was laying out an extended harp I'd aim to have the bottom 2 holes and the top 2 holes the way a normal harp would have them, but put another full octave in the middle, essentially just like if you smooshed a low tuned and a regular tuned harp together. That might just be how I think it should be though, having not actually be what I like if I get a chance to play one.
Another interesting option for an extended harp would be a diminished tuning. The big drawback, as I understand it, with diminished is the reduced range. I think a 14 hole would give you all three octaves.
I haven't tried the Steve Baker tuning. I didn't even realize there was a difference. Maybe I should have gone with that! I've got a regular 365, which I enjoy, but the layout still throws me a bit. (I haven't put that much practice time in on it. I only use it on one of our songs right now.) I haven't played a Soloist Pro 12 either, but having played the 365 I would be inclined to. Although I really do like the extra holes on the 365 it's kind of leaky and is a bit of a pain to handle and cupping is a pita.
+1 with jim and jason. Actually the Solist Pro ~is~ in Steve Baker tuning, which I find vastly more useful than the normal 365 tuning. And it uses screw construction and a sealed comb. A much more modern harp than the venerable 365.
I bought my first 365 long before the Solist was available, solely to play SBW II's "Bye Bye Bird," which it is great for. Wonderful tone to be sure. I find that it's also great for tongue-blocked Gospel tunes. But one of the first thing I did was convert it to nail construction, flat-sand and seal the combs, etc.
I gave mine away when I got hold of the Solist Pro.
Good luck; they're fun harps, especially at the right price.
Sonny Boy II used Low C and Low D 364s to play Bye Bye Bird and other tunes in the early '60s. (The 364 is the 12-hole version of the 365.)
Here's why the top 4 holes are so weird:
The major scale has 7 notes: A B C D E F G (start on whatever note you want and add whatever sharps or flats you want, it's still those 7 note names).
Seven is an uneven number.
Blow-draw pairs call for even numbers (2 + 2 + 2, etc.).
So if you put three of the seven numbers on the blow notes: C E G
You're left with four that become draw notes: D F A B.
The result will be that the two sets of notes will drift farther and farther out of alignment. The longer the series (the more holes you have) the greater the drift will be.
This mismatch starts at Hole 7, where all of a sudden the blow note is one scale degree ABOVE the draw notes instead of below:
Hole 7: C with B
Hole 8: E with D
Hole 9: G with F
At Hole 10, the mismatch gets bigger and now the notes are TWO scale degrees apart:
Hole 10: C with A
This is where 10-hole harps top out. the 12-hole #364 and the 14-hole #365 continue on, though, and the gap immediately widens:
Hole 11: E with B (three scale degrees apart)
Hole 12: G with D
Hole 13: C with F (now four scale degrees apart!)
Hole 14: E with A
So how do you make sense of this and use it?
First, note that the farther apart the two notes in any hole, the WIDER THE BLOW BEND. At least up to a point. Too far apart and they can no longer both reach the same pitch and co-operate. But you can get some really wide blow bends up to Hole 12. Holes 13 and 14, who knows?
Second, if you base your lines mostly on blow notes (first position) or on draw notes (second and third positions) you can stick mainly to notes on that breath plane (blow plane for 1st position, or draw plane for 2nd and 3rd) and occasionally go to the notes on the other plane. From a notes on the main plane, check out what happens when you change breath on that note and then come back to the main note. What happens if you change breath and move one hole to the left or right? =========== Winslow
As always, Perfessor Yerxa has the scoop! I don't recall ever seeing the "logic" behind Richter note placement elucidated quite that nicely.
If I could, I would only add that I have found a wealth of different splits afforded by the layout of the 365, even to the high end. That's why I like it for Gospel.
I'd also add that I found out about the 364 and its use by SBW II only after I bought my first 365. But again, Winslow is spot on. I don't want to mislead folks into thinking that Rice used a 365.
Thanks,
Michelle
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Last Edited by mlefree on Apr 18, 2015 10:25 AM
