ZoneIII
26 posts
Jul 14, 2010
6:14 AM
|
I was about to order a Shure 545SD mic but, before I do, I would like to get opinions on whether I would be better off getting the SM57 instead. They appear to be about the same except that the older 545SD is LZ/HZ switchable. But what about tone? Are there any other differences that would make one of these mics better for blues harp? I will mainly be using the mic for Chicago style harp but I would also like to use it to record my acoustic guitar. Would one mic be better than the other for my needs?
|
toddlgreene
1545 posts
Jul 14, 2010
6:20 AM
|
The 545 will get slightly raspier/dirtier when cupped tight and pushed hard. It was the predecessor of the sm57/58 mics. Both the 545 series and the sm57 are good for vocals and instrument miking, but the sm57 is a little more bullet proof and delivers a cleaner response. Listen to Paul Butterfield, among others-he was a 545 guy. Then there's Jason Ricci et al using the 57 with great success. Both are good microphones. The differences are subtle but do exist.
----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2010 6:37 AM
|
toddlgreene
1546 posts
Jul 14, 2010
6:40 AM
|
Oh, and when you see what Greg Heumann can do with either, your decision may simply come down to a coin flip, or whichever's cheaper(probably the 57)...see the link.
Greg's Ultimate mics
----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
|
JimInMO
79 posts
Jul 14, 2010
8:48 AM
|
The 545 has an on/off switch if that's important to you. But again, if you have Greg work it over for you that's a mute point.
|
ZoneIII
27 posts
Jul 14, 2010
10:48 AM
|
Thanks guys. What you say is consistent with what I have read while researching this.
I have seen Greg's work. It's incredible and he's clearly a 1st rate craftsman. It's encouraging to see people who care so much about the quality of their work these days.
(I'm a newbie with all of this so I apologize for my ignorance that may be obvious in my questions.)
I have read where some say that a HZ mic sounds slightly better than a LZ mic used with HZ to LZ transformer when playing through a HZ device like a guitar amplifier. Is that true? If so, I would be inclined to get the 545 mic. I would appreciate any advice on that because that could be my deciding factor.
As I said, the mic will be used primarily for blues harp but I may also use it to record my acoustic guitar either directly or from an acoustic guitar amplifier and a pickup in the guitar. It sounds like the SM57 may be slightly better for capturing the highs of my 12-string guitar. Is that correct and, if so, is the difference enough to make any practical difference?
Oh... I just thought of one more related question. I have been wondering about how to record my playing without spending a bundle. I'm a beginner anyway and my playing sucks. I would just like to get reasonable results for now. I have recorded my harmonica straight into my computer simply using the mic that came with my PC and Audacity but that's barely acceptable, of course. Audacity is OK but the PC mic just doesn't cut it. My question is (and I hope this isn't a really dumb), with the proper jack adapter, could I plug either of the Shure mics mentioned (LZ) directly into my PC microphone jack? Or (probably better, if possible) could I connect the output of the amp (so I could use the effects in the amp) with a HZ to LZ transformer and a 1/4" to 1/8" jack adapter? Again, this is probably a dumb question but I was just wondering and I don't want to blow up my sound card. I am aware that Shure makes a USB converter but I'm not sure that would do much for me except to allow me to record digitally instead of in analog form. It might be something for me to consider at some point, though. Also, Shure doesn't list Windows 7 64-bit as an OS that the USB converter is compatible with.
To show you how new I am to all of this, I had never even played amplified harp until last night when my amp and mic (not a Shure) were delivered. Don't laugh.... the mic is a Superlux D112. (I can almost hear the groans.) But I got it new for about 1/3rd of it's regular price and couldn't pass it up so I figured I could use it until I get a better mic. I am also watching for J-30 mics. I have no experience with mics at all so I can't judge the Superlux, obviously, but I can say that I was impressed with the physical quality of the mic. It is surprisingly heavy (which I have no problem with), the volume control is very smooth, and it just seems to be built very well. But that doesn't mean it sounds good, of course. BTW, the amp I got to get me started is a Roland Cube 30X that is indistinguishable from a brand new one and I got for between 1/3rd and 1/4 of the "new" price. Eventually, I would like to get a tube amp but this will do for now.
|
Joe_L
456 posts
Jul 14, 2010
1:27 PM
|
Well, I own both. I use the 545 with an amplifier. I've used the 545 to do some recording. I use the SM57 for vocals. Occasionally, I have used the SM57 with an amplifier.
I prefer to use the 545 when playing amplified. I like the sound of it better than the SM57. Unfortunately, my 545 has the four pin connector on it, which is a pain in the ass to keep operational.
You won't hear a groan out of me about the Superlux. I am a fan of cheap mics. They can serve an excellent purpose. They are good for building mic handling technique and gaining experience playing amplified. If you buy them used, you aren't running any significant risk.
Forum member, htownfess has a video where he is using a Superlux with a Lone Wolf Harp Tone+ pedal and an Epiphone Valve Junior half stack. He sounds great. You don't have to spend a lot of money to get good sound. It's not easy to find a brand new, good sounding rig for around $500(US), but he did it.
|
hvyj
454 posts
Jul 14, 2010
2:13 PM
|
I agree with toddlgreene. The 57 is a higher quality mic, but I think the 545 is a better sounding mic for harp. Both are pretty bullet proof, so long as you don't use them to pound nails. Both have proximity effect, but the 545 has more "texture" and will distort a little more when cupped. The 57 is somewhat cleaner. Both are decent mics for vocals and instruments.
A hi-z 545 into an amp will have more gain than a lo-z 545 going through an IMT into an amp. I prefer using a lo-z 545 through an IMT because it sounds a little smoother and, more importantly, makes it easier to control feedback. But I like a relatively clean set up. Those who prefer more distortion may find the sound of a hi-z 545 more to their liking. It depends on how you WANT to sound.
Sometimes I just play through the PA board, which is another reason I prefer lo-z. If you like the sound of bullet mics (I don't), you may prefer the sound a hi-z 545 to a lo-z 545. It's not a question of which sounds "better." The relevant question is how you want to sound, and which set up is closer to that sound.
These days my primary mic for performance is a 545 Ultimate. Great harp mic.
Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2010 2:36 PM
|
hvyj
455 posts
Jul 14, 2010
2:24 PM
|
The stock 545 is HEAVIER and somewhat harder to handle than a stock SM57, but also has an on/off switch which is nice.
The 545 Ultimate and SM57 Ultimate both have the same shorter, lighter barrel and a volume control. Greg's Ultimate series mics are much easier to handle. Highly recommended.
|
Joe_L
457 posts
Jul 14, 2010
2:34 PM
|
hvvj - Are you talking to about the 545 with the pistol grip? My 545 doesn't have the pistol grip or the on/off switch. It doesn't seem noticeably heavier to me than my SM57.
|
hvyj
456 posts
Jul 14, 2010
2:40 PM
|
There are different models of 545. The "S" models have an on/off switch. The only stock 545s I've ever owned or played through were "S" models and they are unquestionably heavier than a 57 (whether they had pistol grip or not). I've never held a stock 545 w/o an on/off switch, so i don't know how heavy those are.
The Ultimates are all relatively light.
Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2010 2:44 PM
|
Greg Heumann
661 posts
Jul 14, 2010
5:46 PM
|
I have A/B'd the new, present model 545SD with an SM57. They are virtually identical in tone. The 545 doesn't have any more grit when cupped than the 57 does - but it has the slightest perceptible bit more "color" in the tone that cupping adds. In free air (as for the guitar recording) the 57 may have slightly higher frequency response and sensitivity which would be to your advantage. Also, the 545's cartridge has a plastic barrel and the 57's is metal. The plastic is plenty rugged and will last forever but the metal one looks better longer.
Vintage 545's were much dirtier and the better examples have tone approaching a good bullet.
All 545's with the exception of the 545L (low impedance only) are dual impedance - have been for a long time. Shure did market a high impedance only version but gave it a different name: the PE54.
hvyj said "A hi-z 545 into an amp will have more gain than a lo-z 545 going through an IMT into an amp" - I believe that was your experience, but I can tell you it doesn't always work out that way. I have tested enough to be sure of it. It depends on the individual mics and transformers. Often the low-Z config will have higher output. (And the difference is output, not gain, I believe.)
ZoneIII - don't get all hung up about impedance. As long as you cable the mic correctly it doesn't matter - make your choice based on the investment you already have in a particular cable style (if any), how you want to use it, whether you want it wireless-ready, etc. In other words, many other factors are much more important choices. The impact on tone is MINIMAL.
----------
/Greg
|
MP
701 posts
Jul 14, 2010
5:49 PM
|
that's right.
----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
|
5F6H
248 posts
Jul 15, 2010
6:43 AM
|
I currently (have owned & sold more) have 3x545s (Mex SD, US pistol grip & US wand), I also have a SM57. If all my 545s died or were stolen tomorrow I'd just carry on using the SM57 (I doubt I could muster the enthusiasm to pay to replace the 545s)...but given the choice, I normally prefer the 545 wired Hi-Z into an amp, BUT there is as much difference tonally between my 545s as there is between the the lower output 545 & the SM57 with a Shure A95UF IMT. I do think that there is typically a slight difference between the 545 & 57 (a little more of a hot edge with the 545) BUT not so great that I wouldn't happily just have the 57 & "Chicago Blues" is certainly achievable with either)...plus the 57 with IMT can be easier to dial in with higher gain/unkown quantity guitar amps.
|
ZoneIII
28 posts
Jul 15, 2010
1:22 PM
|
Thanks again, everyone. You guys have been a big help. I'm at that newbie stage where I'm sure I am guilty of obsessing over stuff that will make me laugh later on. I'm a photographer myself and I see that type of obsession with new photographers worrying over things that are of no real significance.
I think I'll get an SM57. I would love to get one of Greg's incredible modified mics but I just can't justify it at this point, being a beginner.
|
toddlgreene
1560 posts
Jul 15, 2010
1:27 PM
|
not a bad choice, zonell-plus, you'll play hell breaking that 57(just don't twist the element, which isn't locked down from doing so stock), so if you stick with the harp and can later justify it, he'll modify it then to be an Ultimate.
----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
|
