Strictly speaking, tremolo is amplitude variation, vibrato is pitch variation. On a violin both are possible - the finger on the fret moving backwards and forwards is vibrato, the bow moving backwards and forwards is tremolo. A tremolo arm on an electric guitar is misnamed, but since it's a grosser effect than the fingers on the frets, I suppose they had to find some name for it. Wind instruments only have one mechanism. It's always called vibrato, although in theory it's a variation in volume. My vibrato is diaphragm because I played the oboe for 10 years. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2010 3:05 PM
Right - if you're bending a note up and down that's vibrato. If you're making it louder and softer with your breath, that's tremelo. Vibrato AND tremelo are possible on the harp.
@Andrew - As an ex-oboe player and current sax player, I can tell you that true vibrato, not just tremelo, is easily achieved on reed instruments. And the tremelo arm on the guitar actually stretches and relaxes the strings, changing their pitch, so it SHOULD be called a vibrato arm. ---------- /Greg
In what instances would you want to play one method over the other? (gut vs. throat) Personal preference? Sound quality? Ease of actually doing either?
My pocket dictionary of musical terms from 1889 has:
Tremando, tremolando, temolo,and tremoroso as... Trembling, wavering; (a)played or bowed so rapidly as toproduce atremulous effect; (b) vibration of the voice in singing. See "Vibrato"
Greg and TahoeMike, I said "in theory" vibrato on an oboe is variation in volume. The way I learnt it was, under the guidance of a professional oboist, to practise crescendoing and diminuendoing using a combination of diaphragm and lip pressure to prevent any change in pitch. Once that was perfect I played regular crescendos and diminuendos, getting faster and faster. It required about 6 months' practice every day. That was the theory. The end result, in practice, if analysed by a spectrum analyser, may show that unavoidable frequency variation occurs (your lips can no longer keep pace with your diaphragm to balance out those changes in pitch), but it is minimal. If it is not minimal, you end up with the Muppet show saxophone type sound, which is undesirable in classical music. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2010 1:20 AM
1st is normal Throat vibrato backwards coughing, i use it to add color to a song naturaly fattens the tone, produced say half way down my throat i can turn it off and on it's sort of a little disruption in my air intake rather than a couching effect now,
2nd is what my Teacher and friends call a throat rattle sort of a snoreing effect, produced at the top of the throat get all the soft tissue at the top of the throat rattling,
i use it to attack a note giveing a nasty rattling sound, and at the end of a Bent note or just hit the bent note strait away machine gun style but i do have control of this effect,
and i use the two vibratos starting with throat vibrato gently finishing with a Little Rattle at the end of of a note,
3rd the forward Vibrato or Blow vibrato I'm a tongue Blocker this can't be done TB
Blowing hole 8 my tongue rapdily vibrates at the end sort of like when your watching a bird or canary singing the vibration of my tongue disrupts the air flow giveing a very harsh shreaking sound,
i use it sort of like Blow bending to give another effect at the end of rocking songs and when a lead guitarist gets in your face you can just blast back and it drowns him out with its high pitch:)
We had a long post about this a few months back. Use the forum search tool to find it. We listed at least 6 types of vibrato/tremolo that you can do on a harp.
You know, Lee Sankey's video doesn't make a lot of sense. If one can bend using the throat, it's easy to get either vibrato OR tremolo using the throat, and with better (by that, I mean deeper and more even) tone than using lips/jaw which Lee touts as being an "advanced technique that takes years to learn." That claim is a lot of B.S. Why should a player do vibrato with lips and jaw if it can be done with superior tone using the throat? Apparently, that's something Lee hasn't figured out how to do--probably because he was distracted spending years trying to imitate it using lips and jaw (which, quite frankly, isn't as difficult to do).
The only throat vibrato Sankey demonstrates is one that bounces off the "floor" of the bend, which is a forceful and sort of gross technique that employs a lot of power and can useful in limited situations. It is not true "sweet" throat vibrato which is much more subtle and requires considerably more control and finesse.
The 3 Sankey videos posted lately on MBH are, IMHO, mostly long winded explanations that go to great lengths to make relatively simple techniques seem more complicated than they are. There is a difference between explaining things and glorifying the obvious by making it seem unnecessarily complicated. I mean, this guy appears to be a decent traditional style blues player, but he doesn't know shit about throat vibrato.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2010 1:09 PM
I can do that jaw tremolo/vibrato thing, but I was under the impression that it is considered more of a beginner's technique, and not nearly as expressive or cool as throat vibrato.
Isaac, with all due respect, your one example of vibrato is still tremelo - all I hear is changing volume. So I recorded my own simple demo: tremelo vs vibrato It is possible to do both at once: hand tremelo, tongue/throat vibrato. ---------- /Greg
Yup, that's definitely clearer to my ears. I'm not good at doing the tongue vibrato technique. I can make it sound more like a series of little bends, but if I do so, it sounds way too staccato. Greg does it way better than I can. ---------- ------------------ View my videos on YouTube!"
@AV8R: I agree. I think Buddha and Adam are big proponents of the jaw technique, though, and they are excellent players.
But older black blues guys that used to be around when i started playing would do it with the throat and it sounded so deep and rich when they did, I was amazed. So, that's what i decided i should learn how to do, and eventually i did, although I'm not as good at it as they were.
Actually, i don't use either tremolo or vibrato all that much when i play, but i can when i want to, and when i do, i use my throat. I always bend using my throat, too. I don't use my tongue at all for bending, vibrato or tremolo, except some blow bends.
As a general proposition, given a choice between a technique that involves the mouth or one that employs the throat, I find that the farther back, the better the tone. So throat technique, IMHO, almost always sounds better than using the mouth tongue or jaw. However, I think what many of us refer to as the "throat" may actually be the root of the tongue which is so far back it feels like it is the throat. FWIW.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2010 8:17 PM
throat vibrato has got to be the way-your epiglottis slams shut over your trach when you swallow but opens when you breath in to get air into your lungs-by doing inhale coughing you are attempting to get your epiglottis to partially close and choke the reeds it is impossible to totally shut off your epiglottis on inhalation
No one has mentioned it, but controlling airflow (including starting and stopping the airflow) with the DIAPHRAGM is an important component of THROAT vibrato (which is different than diaphragm vibrato). Diaphragm air pressure control is a big part of BOTH throat and diaphragm vibrato--but is not a significant part of the jaw moving vibrato technique.
I think of the throat technique that is used for both bending and vibrato as throat constriction. But as I said before, I suspect the muscle being used is actually at the root of the tongue, which is pretty far back. But I'm not sure about that.
