I am looking for a good dynamic vocal mic that also does a good job for accoustic harp. Most guys here seem to like the Shure Beta 58A. Any reasonably priced alternatives?
thanks!
---------- If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
I agree w/ Bluefinger and Joe L - BETA 58's get my vote... just enough boost on the low end to make harp sound good.. here are two clips with the mic... (harp/vocals)
The amp is my rig - 4 x 10 VERO ... modified for harp (some tube and speaker swapping)... around 45 watts...
Since this clip I have made even a couple more NOS tube swaps to mellow it a little more - helps on the lower volume gigs... Sounds REALLY nice for chromatic as well... best thing I can say is that I am happy with it and don't have to fuss with it much at gigs - plug and play...
I actually prefer the sm57 to the beta 58. Since I do harp boxing, and loop dubing, I need a mic that can handle vocals, harp, AND beatboxing. The sm57 is the most versatile in my opinion, followed by the beta58.
The reason why I place the beta58 behind the sm57 is because I just don't believe that it sounds as good for harp. The SM is smoother to me, and is warmer. However, it is more difficult to hold than a 57, so you may want to even think about buying a beta57, the best of both worlds.
I have two rare Shure mics I could sell. Similar to Adam's PE5H - I have a Shure PE9H & also a PE35H they are both excellent dynamic Vocal HI Z mics. they both work really good for harp & vocals The PE35H has more output - harpmanbee@hotmail.co.uk
Hold on, hold on. An honest question and a bunch of answers, but nobody once asked you "what for?" You didn't say what style harp you play and what you expected of the mic for that. If you are a jazz/country/acoustic player the Beta 58 is fine (with reservations, see below.) If you want to play blues and get some grit out of the mic, the SM57 is maybe even a better choice.
I spent good money on a Beta 58 and sang and played through it a while. I honestly found nothing about it to justify its added expense over a good old SM58. The only the thing the Beta 58 gets you is extended high frequency response and a touch more sensitivity. I then chose an Audix OM6 which is an outstanding vocal mic. However its proximity range is very sensitive -- from lips-touching to 3" away is a HUGE difference - so I ended up going back to a plain SM58. OK, An Ultimate 58, actually. I find it the best compromise for vocals and acoustic blues harp (which is what I use it for.)
How do you all rate the Audix Fireball? Richard hunter seems to be a big fan and I've also seen some others play it (including Alex Paclin). From what I've heard, it does not have a proximity effect?
I've also noticed that even when it's being cupped, it does not distort much? Or am I wrong with this observation?
Is this proximity effect good for vocals and bad for harp?
Audix Fireball is a very transparent mic. It is a "hot" mic that has a very high feedback threshold and does not distort. Tight cupping will darken the tone and liven up the response but will not make it distort.
I carry a Shure 545 Ultimate and an Audix Fireball V. I use the Fireball when the music requires a very clean or less "electric" sound than i can get from the 545. I use the 545 Ultimate much more often but the Fireball is a great mic for certain applications.
I ordinarily do not use the Fireball with an amp, but because it is so clean and transparent, it can be used very effectively to "cool out" and smooth the tone of a very distorted or overdriven sounding amp. Also, because it has such a clean and smooth output, its signal processes very well if you are into electronic effects. But it does not color the sound or provide "texture' like the 545 does. And you can't overdrive the element like you can w/ the 545. The Fireball has no proximity effect.
"Proximity effect" increases bass frequency response as the sound source is closer to the mic grill. Very useful for harp. Combine proximity effect with a tight cup and you can overdrive the element in a 545 which alters tonal response fairly dramatically in a harp friendly way if you do it right. Very cool. Can't do this with a Fireball, though.
The Fireball is a very high quality mic and very durable and reliable. A little bright, though, so you may need to roll off the highs when you play through it, but a really nice clean sounding mic. The Fireball allows me to use the right tool for the right job in those situations where my 545 sounds too "electric" or won't give me the sort of pristine, transparent signal that certain music requires. But the 545 Ultimate is an all around great sounding mic for amplified harp. I carry both mics which keeps me covered for any performance situation i may encounter.
Last Edited by on Jun 17, 2010 1:36 PM
I play blues. I will use it for vocals mainly and some occasional accoustic harp playing. The mic will stay on the mic stand, no cupping. I like it smooth ... think about Sonny Boy II style of playing. For the gritty stuff I use a JT30 and an amp.
thanks for all the opinions!
---------- If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
I know I might get chewed for this but, Im a PA man. Tried all kinds of amps, few pedals and stuff, dont really excite me anymore, so keep going back to PA every time. That said, I use(really) anything thats there but always carry a sm58 with me in the case with harps but dont always use it. I carry it in case the house mic looks too dirty for my taste or on the verge of fallen apart. It happened on time b4. As long as it works, who cares.:)
I often play through the PA if I'm sitting in, and don't mind it at all, but I do prefer using one of my own mics. I carry an XLR cord w/an on/off switch on it as well as 2 mics in my harp case (and a rat tail IMT).
If it's blues, funk, R&B, rock, reggae, fusion jazz or other electric music, I'll use my 545 Ultimate and turn the VC on the mic down about 20-25% to smooth out the signal. If it's acoustic music or traditional jazz, I'll use my Audix Fireball V and roll the highs off on the board.
I have no objections to playing through a PA, but I strongly prefer using one of my own mics. I never play "in air" and ALWAYS cup the mic when i perform. It's not the end of the world if i have to use a house mic, but I consider the mic to be an extension of my instrument, and i am more familiar with how my mics respond to different mic gripping and breath techniques.
@ Bluefinger,. Give the Shure 515SA a Try,.This mic is over looked by many harp players for Vocal an Harp <> --------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2010 12:31 AM
@Blue - the Beta58 will be fine - but I honestly don't think it is worth the extra $$ over a plain jane SM58 - which is just fine for vocals and better for harp.
@Micha - the '58 will produce more distortion if handheld and cupped. The Fireball is a one trick pony - very good at doing what it does - which is tolerate very high sound pressure levels without distorting - and sounds good for harp. But to me it's like handing me a violin and saying I can only use one string. Your "instrument" - the harp+hands+mic+amp combination - is capable of a much broader range of tones with a more flexible mic.
@Greg - I must respectfully disagree with your comments about the SM58 and Beta58... I think that the boost they offer (granted not a technical explanation I know)makes a BIG difference.. Aside from my video posts above I also offer anecdotal evidence from a gig last week... Set up on stage was a SM58 and my Beta 58 - both plugged into a really nice house PA (powered mackie head... During sound check I puposefully went back and forth during a blues shuffle and at least to my ears there was/is a difference.. Another harp player on the gig had also come prepared with his own mic (he is a blues veteran from DC of 30 yrs).. The mic that he carries to gigs to swap out the mic w/ the house PA? Yup... Beta58...
Just my 2 cents...
Kurt www.kurtcrandall.com www.myspace.com/kurtcrandall
@Greg, You CAN vary tonal quality and response somewhat by how you grip an Audix Fireball. Certainly not as dramatically as you are able to on other mics, since there is no proximity effect or distortion, but it is somewhat more responsive to technique than just producing one single clean sound.
But, yeah, the Fireball is not very versatile. I've used mine quite a bit in different situations. It does clean very well and with a little more variety than you are giving it credit for, but definitely that's all it does.
If i could only carry ONE mic, it wouldn't be a Fireball. The 545 Ultimate I got from you is much more versatile, and, IMHO, a better all around harp mic for what I do.
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2010 9:25 AM
@Kurt - no disrespect assumed! A variety of opinions is what makes this board great. And I confess to not having spent a LOT of time with the Beta 58 OR A/B'ing back and forth, which is the best way to compare any two pieces of gear.
@hvjy - yes, you're right - you can vary the tone of a fireball a little from fully cupped to open - but my point still stands - when there are other mics that give you more range, why choose a fireball? There IS a valid reason - and is the one that drives Richard Hunter to his love for it, I think - that is the need for an always-clean signal into an effects pedal one uses to "create" one's tone. Some pedals' tone really sucks if you feed them an overdriven/distorted signal. I won't use those pedals for that reason. You can't cup a pedal. ---------- /Greg
I never thought of using a mic with a 1/4" jack. (Shure 515SA) which I saw mentioned on here. I always used sm58s and 57's for gigs. Large and small pa systems. Seems they worked fine. Now I may be looking for something more expensive. A new Fishman pa with a sublow and a better mic to cover vocals and harmonica. Anyone have thoughts to ponder?
I only have older stuff but the 585A I have is great for vocals, cupped playing, on the stand, smooth or gritty, through a PA or plugged into an amp. It's the one Cotton used in the late 60's-early 70's so it must work for blues. I've recently seen both the 585A (w/volume control) and its cousin (without) for $50 and less on eBay. ---------- BnT
I like my 585s for harp with a little vocals, but if I know I will be singing a lot and I also want to handhold/cup the same mic to the PA with harp, I prefer my Ultimate 58 from Greg.
If you plan on singing and playing harp to your mic in a stand, a regular SM58 is a fine mic for vocals and harp, and is reasonably priced.
The beta 58 is not necessary for what you want, though they sound fine (and cost more). You have to shape the harp tone darker with your hands if you have a mic that emphasizes highs more. ----------
For the past few months, I've gone ampless at the jams I'm going to and a band I'm sitting in with. Because my 6w amp was getting lost in the sound. I've been using a sm58 and Ive had a couple for a long time so just decided to use what I have. Or the vocal mic set up at a jam which is usually a 58 or similar. The sound works fine for me. I play in front of it and cup it varying the sound. Or if the mic is really hot just play in front of it and I like that. It's helped considerably with my playing and acoustic tone, and getting varied sounds out of one mic.
I used to use a 58 all the time. when I began to work on my playing more 10 months ago ago I felt I needed to not use a 58 as I tried various mics and amps. Now that I've gotten more experienced and found I could just use the mics already set up on a stand at jams I've come to appreciate in a new and more understanding way the sound of the 58.
I finally had a practice with some players I met that was more sound friendly for me (aka not too loud) and I finally got to break out my amp again with a mic (AKAI dm13) and set up my sm58 on a stand. Going back and forth with the two mics and sounds. That's my preference when possible.
So if you happen to have an sm58 around it works well for me. And depending on style you play, when you play in 1st position it sounds great.
Last Edited by ScottK on Sep 21, 2017 8:01 PM
For use in live performances, capturing acoustic harp and vocals, I agree with those who vote for the standard SM58. I once used a Beta, and did not note any significance difference in a live situation.
I also use a Rode M1. It is similar to the SM58 but has a slightly more extended/sensitive high end. So it has a more open sound and captures the high frequency nuances of the harp better. I think my singing voice sounds less nasal through it. With vocals, the sound is slightly cleaner (less muddy) than the SM58. It's a well-built mic and slightly less expensive than the SM57/58. However, the Rode does not work well for cupping. So if there is a chance I will want to cup on some songs, I use my SM57 instead. But for a clean mic on a stand, I prefer the Rode M1. It is also a very good mic for home recording.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Sep 23, 2017 12:56 AM
Jolene and I both have Beta 58's for vocals. I play some harp through the vocal mic sometimes, like with a nice clean Chromatic part. A while back we did a gig with just the p.a. and I had the Beta for vocals and an SM57 in a different channel for harp. It was ok but for a lot of the blues we do as a duo, a nice warm round tone is good, so I use either a Shure 585 or a Greg Heumann- modded EV M43U mic for harp. The Beta58 we feel demands less strain on the voice over a given night. The slight boost is good for us both.
It does depend on what sort of music you want to do. I will always like a tube amp/hiZ setup for a lot of stuff, and I will always want a clean clear mic and p.a. setup for other stuff. ----------
I'm quite satisfied with my SM58 for vocals and harp if that's what is going. I don't play a lot through PA on my gigs but if I am doing so, it's my 58. I never really thought seriously about using anything else for quite a while. I have used beta57A and I liked it. Very comfortable to hold and less handling noise than a sm57. I once owned an sm57 because I figured the entire harp playing community seemed to endorse it so it must be the goods, but I never grew to like it. I still try them from time to time. I still don't really care for it. My friend has a 545 with bulletiser and that is pretty good but I think I'm just as happy with the 58, especially for vocals I prefer it. I rarely use a stick mic in my hand though, that might make a difference. The beta57 I was using as a handheld mic, and I appreciated it in that application. Pretty boring I guess, but that's it.
Personally I think you can't ever go wrong with a Shure SM57. It's a workhorse mic, has a great sound and is ideal for multiple applications. In my opinion it's the one mic that every musician should own.
@1847 A machined and anodized aircraft aluminum body with a volume control replaces the original body to create a light mic that lets you adjust volume on stage. I like it.
Whether MD used a beta once that night, or always now, you could have posted the video to make your point without the attitude at the end. ----------
perhaps it was a bit harsh, but that rubbed me the wrong way.
We were having a discussion re: the MD sound. Martin pointed out how his sound early on was slightly different. His sound a little later had just a little more of an edge to it. When I heard these new tracks and I was like, what the heck? He has another new sound.
I am not 100 percent certain that it is a beta 58 that he is using, that is why I asked.
However I am reasonably certain he is not using a "ultimate" 58 here. It seems fairly obvious.... Sorry the king has no clothes.
To put a full on advertisement for your product is one thing, I am ok with that, but to claim he has not one but,two "ultimate" mics that are his favorites only to see he is using something else just seems misleading.
I was hoping to get a little information on the mic he is using in the recent videos. I am not going to go out and buy one, just out of curiosity.
Several months back I asked Greg H via Facebook if he knew which Ultimate Magic Dick used and having both did he prefer one over the other...Greg suggested I message MD to see which one he preferred. I did and about a month later I got a message via FB back, "I prefer the 58". Ya I was pretty thrilled just to get a message back.
I'm seeing Magic Dick and Shun Ng at a cool small venue in Nashua NH on Oct.15. So I'll see what he's playing then!
The Heil PR22UT works well for my voice and acoustic harp work. The low notes sound clear and the highs sound crisp. Just like I hear it in my head. I like it better than the Shure 580, 545, SM57 and the SM58 , especially on the low end. The frequency response chart for PR22 shows a nice low end bump and a dip in the mids feedback zone, significantly different from the shure. I run it thru the mixer w/ flat eq and it sounds spot on the way I think it should.
it looks like magic may be using a sennheiser mic? check this out, heil sound has a replacement element that fits both the shure wireless and the sennheiser.these mics are condensers, he changes them to dynamic.
ok.. neither one of these is a condenser mic. they are dynamic
Last Edited by 1847 on Sep 27, 2017 5:38 PM
These days I do all acoustic playing, mostly through a rack,but not all. I prefer the ev nd767. I went into guitar center and we lined 'em all up, and I liked this one the best for me. It is crisp and clear, and you don't have to eat it - which is why I picked it. It's hard to play rack and sing with a mike you need to be slobbering on for a good response. It is also sweet that I can use the distance for nice dynamics when playing acoustically, and it is great for vocals. It is also in the sm58 range for price.
So I got a chance to see magic the other day, by all indications he was using a sm58. My guess is that it was a house mic supplied by the venue. It possibly may have been One of his personal mics he has owned for 50 years or so. At the end of the day It is the Indian not the arrow.
What I did find interesting he was plugged into some sort of box on his mic stand. Possibly it was some sort of di box?
It had a volume control and reverb so he could adjust both on the fly, it may have had Treble and bass as well. I did not check it out. For all intents and purposes he Was basically just playing thru the pa.
