I rarely criticize harmonica players, and I'm not exactly criticizing Paul Frappier (AKA News Brown) or this other guy, but if the harmonica is going to be represented in another genre of music, it would be nice if the playing was a little more precise. The style these guys are playing is not bad, but it just doesn't "fit" in my opinion. Now somebody like Stevie Wonder is someone who the harmonica community can certainly be proud of, even though I realize I am comparing a chromatic player to a diatonic player - he represents the harmonica well within the style of music he plays.
I guess to a non-harmonica-playing audience, this performance would be great, but as a harp player it just doesn't impress me.
Im impressed that a Hip-Hop/Rap artist can play his own music without having to resort to sampling/borrowing/stealing it from musicians of another genre. ---------- The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
Now this doesn't sound anything like Brendan Powers. I guess it's the lowest common denominator. And even to the audience I am sure they get headaches from the honking after a while.
You should be impressed Todd. It may not be to the officianados taste but if it promotes harp playing to the youngsters, they may just want to explore the harps possibilities a little further and learn what it can really do.
@Stickman "Im impressed that a Hip-Hop/Rap artist can play his own music without having to resort to sampling/borrowing/stealing it from musicians of another genre."
Its a very poor Stone Fox Chase rip off ----------
It's the Kenny G of harp. I really like bad news browns recorded tracks. His original stuff is great. Here is a clear example of where a master should stay in his realm of mastery, else he ends of looking like a fool on the stage. Why doesn't he play his original stuff? You'd never see sonny terry trying to play be-bop jazz.
arzajac: I'm not sure if you're referring to me as the "harp snob", but it's fine if you are. I think anyone who knows me knows that I'm not an arrogant or conceited player. But I do believe in advancing the instrument and I like for it to be represented well, especially when so many people don't take the instrument seriously already. I just don't feel like that's what's happening in this video. I didn't say the harmonica playing is bad; I said it just doesn't fit with this style of music here, mainly because of the chording, etc. I think some of the other stuff Bad News does is much better.
Last Edited by Todd Parrott on Jul 07, 2018 8:17 PM
I have no problem criticizing anybody, anytime...nobody ever cuts ME any slack, EVAHHHHHHH. Todd Parrot, I have heard your work...you know whats going on with that harp so I respect your play. Did you think of this point of view, however? Unless the pitch is wrong on this thing, I hear the band in F#.(why the hell select that key in the first place)..if you're gonna' play in 2nd, just drop it to F with only one flat, which horn players love.) I messed with this thing, threw it into 3rd with an E diatonic and played lines from Bill Clarke's "Blowing the Family Jewels" against it and it sure sounded better than this lame 2nd position honking. (I am assuming they're working B diatonics). With the knowledge of various positions that Musselwhite has, I think he'd wipe the floor with these guys, even in that genre. My contention is that too many harp players think 2nd is the "be all and end all"...they don't expand their vocabularies and become proficient in other positions. Ricci,on the other hand, would probably do well against these band lines with his rocket style of play, even in 2nd. Admittedly the standard E in 3rd is high pitched...but this was an experiment...using octaves throughout made it work pretty good. I don't own a low E and my first position work on a chromatic is lamer than they are, so I dont know how that would sound. (don't own an E chromatic either or thats the first place I would have gone) I agree with you though...not so hot. (the guy dressed like one of the blues brothers needs a good tailor and some stage presence instruction.) The other one is hopeless as a dancer..just stand up straight and blow your horn, man. Regards.
1) The black guy and the white guy are playing with, in my opinion, exactly the same talent level, sound, and funkiness. They mesh extremely well. Race isn't an issue here--at least in terms of a talent differential. Of course it is in terms of stage image: brotherhood in da beat is being projected here. But it's NOT a ritual in which, for example, we've got two entirely different approaches that have some sort of racial component, or--more commonly--in which the torch is being passed from an older black player to a younger white player.
2) The sort of harmonica playing they're doing is a classic example of 100% lip pursing. If either of them came to me and said, "I want to grow as a harp player. What's the first thing I should work on?", I'd tell them, "Learn how to tongue block. It'll give you a broader range of sounds to choose from."
3) Although there's a certain sameness in the rhythms after a while, I really like what they're doing from a rhythmic standpoint. It's very precise, rhythmically; it holds to the beat, and dances around the beat. So Todd's initial observation--that "it would be nice if the playing was more precise"--strikes me as half-wrong. I don't hear anything imprecise about either player's playing here, considered purely in rhythmic terms.
4) Considered in terms of tonal production, however, these guys are, in fact, imprecise and unsubtle. They're playing very hard, they're flatting out some notes that might sound better if they weren't flatted, their embouchure is.....variable. If they came to me and said they wanted some suggestions for how they could improve their overall sound, I'd send them towards some James Cotton videos: tongue blocking and big, aggressive, in-tune playing, with flatted notes at the right time, rather than all the time.
I hear exactly what these guys are doing and aren't doing. How you judge them depends on where you're coming from. If you are a traditionalist who likes Mississippi juke joint playing of the Frank Frost variety, then these guys are actually pretty good. They sound very much like Frank Frost, updated for the hip hop age. Listen to the playing here from :50 onward:
But if you're interested in more modern urban/Chicago sounds, which rely on tongue blocking, this playing seems pretty unsophisticated and imprecise, tonally. Rhythmically, though, it's pretty good. And it certainly holds out the promise of attracting a new generation of fans to the harmonica.
I give it a B+, overall.
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 6:28 AM
Unfortunately a lot of harp players play like this--bending notes because they can, not because it fits musically and force feeding licks they are able to play over whatever material is being played. Precisely the sort of thing that gives harp players in general a bad rep among many musicians. I agree with Todd.
@hvyj: If Frank Frost's playing gives harp players a bad rep among many musicians, then I agree with you. But I suspect that many in the general public would hear Frank Frost and say, "THAT is some funky harmonica playing!" Musicians and the general public have different criteria of judgment.
Adam. I agree that it's foot tapping and danceable. And, as a practical matter, if the band all starts at the same time, stops at the same time and keeps a beat during the tune, the audience is usually suitably impressed. It all depends on whether you are comfortable using the lowest common denominator as the standard by which to judge a performance.
those two aren't technical wizards, but i do appreciate their move into a genre most of us would not consider.
i have heard plenty of worse players on top 40 radio, that people go wild over and buy cds from. then there are technical guys like popper who arguably took harmonica into top 40 psychedelic ballads single handedly.
I'm part of a series in nyc hosted by Ashford and Simpson each week entitled "Nuttin but the Blues" where we back up some dynamically soulful singers. Occasionally they throw in a little rap or hip/hop rhythm or Gil Scott Heron (one of my inspirations)-like poetry and Man is it galvanizing and fun!! I completely understand Todd here (not from a generic but a Todd perspective). When you play as resonantly and organically as he does there is almost a suspension of duality between the music and the musician. His resonance sounds so deep that it must be hard to listen to these guys. d ---------- Myspace: dennis moriarty
hehe It's the same guy in the music video ) Just noticed. Anyway, check out the link I've posted so you know that his very average technique can actually sound fine in the right contest.
I didn't like the first video though. That level of playing is ok for accompaniment or some simple theme played in the background, but doesn't go well for soloing. ---------- www.truechromatic.com
Oda, now there's a question, would these guys let Jason play with them? Sometimes a crossover performance can open up whole new audiences sometimes. I'm not sure how the macho hip hop culture would react to Jason though. It might be a good opportunity on a couple of fronts.
With the guitar there are so many sounds and approaches, many quite primitve and it seems like they all have their audience.
But if you're a harp player and you don't LP, TB, OB, tremelo, vibrato, doublestop, split octave and have monster tone, someone's ready to dis...
I don't see anything wrong with this stuff, hip hop has it's roots from the street, and it is cool to see an old school acoustic instrument with plenty of street cred come into the mix.
I don't mind the tone or the licks, it totally reminds me of stuff I would hear in the pop culture of the seventies, like Sesame Street and Sanford and Son.
I think basic musicianship is being displayed here, and the genre is hip hop, which of course often favors groove over melodic or harmonic sophistication.
Look at early Beatles recordings. Lot's of musicians develop over time. I this stuff. It's catchy. What's more, it may open doors for other musicians.
There is a long tradition in hip hop. If you're going to call someone out, do it to the nines! Put together your own YouTube video and post it as a response. Maybe some good natured exchanges could move things foreword!
most people if they arent told, dont have a clue what instruments they are listening too.. just that is groves or not.. i have to listen to my wifes crappy music all the time, and i have heard a harp in a few songs.. she would have never known.. i really dont see an problem with the topic video, i like it.. not the greatest, but not that bad..
Ok. Most rappers talk in rhyme because they can't sing and sample because they can't play and this vid is an illustration of that.
Of course, there are exceptions such as Tupac and Mos Def. Rap is definitely an art form, but although it has musical elements, for the most part, it's not music.
This vid (the first vid) is fun. But it's not good musicianship.
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 2:11 PM
I've posted this before, maybe more than once, but i think it's the best harmonica/hip-hop mix I've heard
The playing isn't sampled - it's from jazz guitarist Charlie Hunter who played on the album. The song (and video especially) might be a little over ernest, but I think it's got soul.
And bigd - I assume you know Spearhead/Michael Franti; massive influence from Gil Scott Heron
It sounds a lot like what Yuri Lane does (his harpboxing stuff). I wonder if that's just the style hip hoppers prefer? ie. they seem to want to go with chordal rythms (derivitive of train/fox chase stuff)? If so, it's quite interesting that hip hoppers, who represent the latest iteration of black music, are looking back to some of the earliest recorded styles of black music, and incorporating it into their current day offerings.
Personally, I think the *music* would be better if the harp players tried something a bit more melodic (but still groovy). However, as an *artistic/cultural* statement, I like the incorporation of early black harmonica stylings into a modern hip hop context. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
A lot of harp players play chords because they are easy to play. You have chords by default just by blowing or drawing. So, I don't think it's necessarily a deliberate artistic choice that novice harp players play chords,
The chords available on the harp are very primitive and if you play a lot of chords it really restricts the types of material you play on diatonic harp and sound good. if you don't play chords, you are much less limited.
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 2:33 PM
I think most rappers talk rhyme because that's what's popular. Some of them can sing, some of them can't. It's only cool in a musical to start singing insults at someone. Rhyme them at them and maybe you don't get laughed at and earn some respect. I suspect that's what it grew out of, then they realized if you put a beat behind it people would pay to listen so they could dance to it.
For years I thought it was because rappers couldn't sing, but I've run into people who can sing who like to rap instead.
Ahhh! I just checked out the other Bad News Brown video linked by Jim, and THAT'S what I'm talking about. Melodic playing that still grooves, and flows with the beat. Not complicated, no crazy, crazy chops; just straight up harp. He's no Jason or Chris, but he definitely knows what he's doing, and he's finding a way to incorporate our instrument into a genre it's not really been seen in before. I'll embed the video below. And BTW, when's the last time you saw an *actual* music video (a la MTV) for a HARMONICA INSTRUMENTAL?!?!?! That alone is badass.
I just got back from a Sunday gig...Twin Cities Blessing of the Bikes. Bunch of Harley guys..outdoors. We all just got song charts...no practice. One of the songs was the old David Mason/Jee Cocker song...Feelin Alright. It actually has a very similar groove only with two chords, over and over. Not a change in sight. Sad to say...I used a lot of the cliche licks these guys used! And for half the show, I wasn't hearing shit from the PA wedge...I'm sure I was as sloppy as them too!
Isaac, the more I hear of this guy the more I like his stuff. The only thing I noticed on that one that I didn't like, and this is nit-picking... to my ear, especially around the middle of the song he had a few sustains on blows that didn't sound as soulful as they might have as draw notes. And I might be fooling myself on that. I loved the overall sound.
edit- That comment was for the first one you posted.
---------- Nate Facebook
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 2:49 PM
The show is hosted by Normand Braithwaite - a popular Québecois celebrity and an accomplished musician. So the comment that the band may lack musicianship is unfounded.
Paul Cargnello seems to be a Québecois artist who hasn't made it big. I skimmed through a number of his youtube videos and in none of them does he play harp - he mostly plays guitar and sings.
At the end of the performance, Normand Braithwaite says "Bad News Brown mesdames et messieurs! Le nouveau duo Paul et Paul (La poignez-vous? Wooohaaa!)"
Translated, it means "Ladies and Gentlemen, Bad news brown! And the new duo Paul and Paul (get it? Wooohaa!)"
He's saying it tongue-in-cheek. So, it seems to me that Paul Cargnello (the white guy) is more or less a regular on the show and he was asked to do a duo with Bad News Brown.
I don't reckon they have worked together before. If you want to judge this performance, you need to take into consideration that this was probably put together in a very short period of time.
You know, I think the cliches and everything here are intentional, even the thin tone, notice how there is a lot of mugging with the harp one handed in the videos.
To me, the statement is something like "I'm a hard rhymin' SOB but I got some music in this soul" or something like that.
I am probably looking way to into this but why not?
I think BNB's musical context is sort of a melancholy fusion of old soul from the mythologized past meets the hard reality of the modern urban street life.
For what it is I think it is cool and will inspire kids who might never thought of picking up a harp.
______________________________________ ______________________________________ Does he overblow? Does he LP or TB? Are the licks cliche? Does he know more than 2nd position? Etc......Whatever. ______________________________________ ______________________________________
And now for the important question: Does the audience like it? After all, what are musicians' main goal...to entertain the audience or to impress other musicians?
Somehow, I'm reminded of the joke: Q. What's the difference between a jazz guitarist and a blues guitarist?
A. A blues guitarist plays 3 chords to 1,000 people; a jazz guitarist plays 1,000 chords to 3 people.
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 5:22 PM
A few observations: 1) The black guy and the white guy are playing with, in my opinion, exactly the same talent level, sound, and crapiness.
They mesh extremely well.Crap = crap , Race isn't an issue here--at least in terms of a talent differential.True both crap
2) The sort of harmonica playing they're doing is a classic example of 100% lip pursing. = crap
"Learn how to tongue block. Point Blank no fucking around It'll give you a broader range of sounds to choose from."
3) Although there's a certain sameness in the rhythms after a while, I really like what they're doing from a rhythmic standpoint. i laugh out loud!!!
It's very precise, rhythmically; it holds to the beat, i laugh louder!!!!!!!!! and dances around the beat.thanks i just pissed myself
I don't hear anything imprecise about either player's playing here, considered purely in rhythmic terms.
Jeezus love quick will you get me get a mop i made a mess Pissed every whare!!!!
4) Considered in terms of tonal production, however, these guys are, in fact, imprecise and unsubtle. If they came to me and said they wanted some suggestions for how they could improve their overall sound, I'd send them towards, the back of the class and say i got some 6 year old kids that are more advanced than you guys you need more work, go draw some pictures ya wasting my time,
How you judge them depends on where you're coming from If you are a traditionalist who likes Mississippi juke joint playing of the Frank Frost variety, then these guys are actually a Fucking Joke.
They sound very much like Frank Frost, Give me a Break!!!!
Adam when it comes to life yours some what follows franks unwillingness to let go of his day job to make music his full time Profesion,
now when it comes to listening to Fine Harmonicists i got 3 frank Frost albums no Bad blues Brown or Adam Gusso Albums:)
Yes i like Frank Frost:)
Thanks for the Nudge Adam now what i need is to listen to you mate, i want your first Album and your latest Album where do i get them I'm all Ears:)
Last Edited by on May 23, 2010 8:05 PM
