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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
living the blues: experiences with the elders
living the blues: experiences with the elders
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kudzurunner
1357 posts
Apr 22, 2010
4:15 PM
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It's become apparent to me from reading the interesting posts on Waltertore's thread on the internet bluesman "sham" that the subject of living the blues deserves a thread of its own. In particular, I'm thinking of the experiences that some of us have accumulated in the course of sharing stages, backstages, meals, and road time with the elders. I'm not thinking just about African American elders, BTW, although I suspect that's mostly whom we mean.
I've dumped many of my stories into MISTER SATAN'S APPRENTICE, but it might be a good idea if I simply name-dropped, in the hope that others--and especially Walter & BBQ Bob--will do the same, since I know that their experience exceeds mine. I can flesh some of these relationships out later. I'm just putting down some names, gigs, memories, in an effort to sketch out what the blues life might mean by way of actual person-to-person WORKING contact (as opposed to fan contact).
Sterling Magee: I've been playing with him for many years
Bo Diddley: Satan and Adam toured the UK with him for one week in 1991. Shared a bus. He and Sterling played four-handed piano. He had a filthy mouth, a redneck wife--from the south or southwest, I believe--and was exactly the same offstage and on. Zero pretense. Slow talking.
Buddy Guy: Satan and Adam opened for him in a big concert in Central Park, 1990 "Summerstage". Drank brandy with him in the dressing room.
Honeyboy Edwards: We opened for him at a club in upstate NY. Sat around the dressing room and traded stories
Lazy Lester: Satan and Adam opened for him at Manny's Car Wash. He was drunk. Not a great harp player that night.
Jimmy "The Preacher" Robbins: I sat in with him many times at Showman's Cafe in Harlem between 1985 and 1990. Incredible southern-soul organist and singer.
Bill Sims, Jr.: Played a handful of gigs with him. NYC blues guy.
Irving Louis Lattin: Played a half dozen gigs with him over the years. When Sterling had a nervous breakdown and disappeared, I called Irving and we did a blues festival in the Hudson River Valley.
Larry Johnson: I played precisely one gig with Larry, the summer of 1998 when Sterling had his breakdown. Larry agreed to fly down to Atlanta with me and "save" a planned Satan and Adam appearance at a festival there. He wanted the money but wasn't happy about basically being a consolation prize: "black blues guy teamed with the white boy." He wasn't racist; he just had his pride and he knew what was up. I'd known him in a general way for many years--he was one of Nat Riddles's main gigs; Nat had recorded a couple of albums with him--but we'd never actually played a gig together, although I'd sat in on a song or two a few times. Anyway, what I discovered as we circled the Atlanta airport was that the man was FULL of rage. He cultivated grievances the way some people cultivate flowers. He hated the South, he said. He hated Atlanta. By the time we got onstage, he was spluttering with rage. I'm a good player, but working that set with Larry on the festival stage was like being bucked by the angriest sort of bronco. I finally got pissed off, which delighted Larry and made him even more furious: NOW, goddammit, we're really doing it! That was the energy he projected. Just a furious, pissed-off man who knew how to spread the bad vibes and make everything jittery with the blues. We managed to turn some of the onstage aggression into musical energy, and we got through the set. I learned a lot about the blues on that day, and what some bluesmen were made of.
Wild Jimmy Spruill: I had a couple of rehearsals with him and did a recording session in midtown NYC
Frankie Paris: sat in with him many times at Arthur's Tavern and elsewhere in NYC. A real elder.
Jimmy Thackery: Satan and Adam opened for him at The Stanhope House. Hung out a little bit. Nice guy. Kind of goofy.
James Cotton: Went upstairs to ask him for a lesson after seeing him live in 1985 at The Lone Star Cafe on 13th Street. He sat down with me and said, "Nah, man. I'll teach you everything I know. You don't have to pay me. But if you see me on the street sometime and I ask you for a dollar, you give me a dollar."
Kenny Neal: Satan and Adam and Kenny were playing the same blues festival in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Kenny's woman took a fancy to the short-sleeved shirt I had on--there were butterflies in the pattern. So Kenny and I stood up, stripped off our shirts, and traded. His shirt turned out to be a little too small, so I threw it away later.
Keb' Mo': I had breakfast in the hotel with Keb' and Chris Smither when all three of us were playing Tulsa Mayfest in 1992 or 1993. Keb' was just becoming a star. He told Chris and me a little of his story and made clear that he was an R&B guy who had made a strategic move in redefining himself as a country blues guy, a guy who did the Robert Johnson stuff. That's not all he was--although he said he loved the stuff--and he was determined to do what HE wanted to do when the new direction had given him a public.
Dave Van Ronk: Satan and Adam were on the same bill with him somewhere. He was intrigued. "Why does he call himself Satan?" he growled at me.
Robert Jr. Lockwood: I've got a great story about playing harp for Robert Jr. AND Honeyboy Edwards right after they sat backstage at B. B. King's in NYC and traded stories about Robert Johnson, whom they both knew. I'll save it for YouTube.
Harry Holt: black bass player, legend at the old Dan Lynch. I played one pickup gig with him. He was fond of a song called "Kidney Stew." I was innocent at that point and didn't realize the titular phrase was code for fu--ing.
Otis Clay and Ann Peebles: played a show with them at The Blind Pig in Ann Arbor; shared the green room. I thought she was gorgeous.
Bob Malenky: White guitar player, older, who recorded an album with Sonny Terry many years ago. Kind of eccentric but very nice, literate, gentle. We played one gig in the early 1990s at a club on far, far west 125th street, only a hundred feet from the Hudson River. He could really play that kind of music.
That's about all I can think of right now, but I'm sure I'll think of more.
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 4:31 PM
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conjob
51 posts
Apr 22, 2010
4:29 PM
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i am very interested in hearing these stories, and i would imagine most of the other younger guys on this forum are too
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MichaelAndrewLo
320 posts
Apr 22, 2010
4:39 PM
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So who are the people that the young guys (or other age groups) should be hanging with now? With diminishing live opportunities, what is the adaptation that will supplant the "sitting in with elders"? How DOES the changing club circuit affect our own blues developmental abilities? And last but not least: Is it necessary?
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waltertore
461 posts
Apr 22, 2010
5:05 PM
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Adam: Great idea! I loved your post. You have a depth of blues in you. I sing better than I talk. After I read your post, 3 times, the music called me. I recorded some stories about sonny terry, louisiana red, lightning hopkins, champion jack dupree, and the first bluesman that picked me up in his caddy as I blew my harp and delivered drugs in Newark for the mob, wilbert harrison. I am loading them as I type. I will post them as they get to soundclick. I hate having to wait the 5 minutes or so for each to load. It must be a meant to be be because each song came right out one after another and I am not having to hardly do but a few seconds of setting the levels to master them. Excuse any typos, I am on a run here.
Here is the first one:
a story about sonny terry
click on the soundclick or myspace link below.
Michael: If you want to be more than a hobbist, yes you have to get with one that can pass the spirit to you. If you aren't willing to blindly follow the music, even getting with one will be no good, because it only passes on to those that will make it their life. If there is no scene, you walk blindly and it will lead you to one. Most hobbists won't do this because they would have to leave their homes, families, jobs, etc. Yes, you can get all the notes, riffs, tones, without this, but you will never be a true musician. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 5:08 PM
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waltertore
462 posts
Apr 22, 2010
5:14 PM
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next song:
Sitting on champion jack dupree's piano bench
- there wasn't an extra mic, so the backup band said, so jack sat me on his bench for the night and swated the mic my way when he wanted me to blow.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 5:19 PM
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waltertore
463 posts
Apr 22, 2010
5:19 PM
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next song:
How I met Lightning hopkins-
I stood out in the freezing snow from 8am until 10pm waiting for him to show up. My biggest fear was he would go in the door while I was peeing down the steps at the building next door to tramps.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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waltertore
464 posts
Apr 22, 2010
5:30 PM
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next song:
How Imet and moved in with louisiana red
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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waltertore
465 posts
Apr 22, 2010
5:41 PM
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last song for now:
wilbert harrison picked me up on a street corner
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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Blues13
29 posts
Apr 22, 2010
5:58 PM
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Hi Adam, great idea I'm really interested in all these stories.
Walter I love your song/stories especially the one about ligtnin' Hopkins because he's one of my favorite guitar player. I hope our path will cross someday I would really like to meet you. I'm not a big talker but I'm a good listener.
Martin
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 5:58 PM
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oldwailer
1199 posts
Apr 22, 2010
7:23 PM
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You'd be welcome to sit in with me anytime, Michaeletc--I'm not black or famous or even all that good, but I'm pretty old. . .
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Nastyolddog
586 posts
Apr 22, 2010
7:29 PM
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So lets get this right Waltor any person that hasn't walked in your shoes,or will not travel that path
will never be a Bluesman,
your statment below says every one apart from you or Who you deem to be a Blueman,
it will be just a Hobby
Michael: If you want to be more than a hobbist
this reaks of a scared Old ignorant man that no one will listen to,
you say in your thread no young kids ask you about your past,
Poor Old Man,
geezus we all know why the Old Blues Players lived the Life,it's because thats all they Knew,
they were under educted some couldn't count or read books improvistation was the norm,
stop dissing the young players for useing the tools they have today to advance quickly to levals that far surpase your Playing style,
Waltor you say this,
I sing better than I talk,
Life is full of Color this is just your Opinion not mine...
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 12:53 AM
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Joe_L
178 posts
Apr 22, 2010
8:39 PM
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It's pretty amazing how quickly a thread about historic bluesmen degrades into something very ugly and disrespectful.
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Kyzer Sosa
431 posts
Apr 22, 2010
9:09 PM
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i dont agree with Walter's POV 100% either. If youve got all the tones, riffs, chords, octaves, subtleties, etc...and if you can put it together musically...IMO, you got it!!!! Granted, I wouldnt know what i know today if it werent for Adam, but he certainly isnt the only one accessible online. (Just THE most accessible) and if he cant show me in a YouTube vid, he sure can tell me which album I could find it on.
MAL, I cant imagine that its absolutely necessary. You point out that the opportunities are diminished. I think so too. The fact is, most people, regardless of skill, CANT submit to a lifestyle of traveling, most cant concede to give up what theyve worked so hard for to pursue it for more than a hobby, even if theyre driven to. You have to make the hobby a passion for YOURSELF. No amount of giggin or chillin with pros can put that in you.
There is some truth to Walter's comments. Passing the torch is done in every trade known to man. Living the Blues, as Adam described above, is what he's lived thru thus far in regards to who hes had the pleasure (or not) to play with or be around. He didnt give details about his personal life or his financial situation or his education or what the turning point was that drove him to become a blues man. That chapter isnt in the OP, but that's a big part of it too, well... it is for me.
I think it's entirely possible, by whatever means you present yourself, to become very adept at blowin blues harp, without sitting with Kim or Jason or (enter name here). BUT the experience of doing so is absolutely indispensable. Frankly, there could be no better way TO do it.
If you have the chance, JUMP ON IT, I think is the point. Consider yourself lucky if you do.
i dont think Nasty was entirely disrespectful, it's just how he chooses to convey his opinion. Could he have said the same thing nicer? yes. Rough around the edges? yes
All I know is this: Im not stopping. Im not going to slow down. I live in middle Tennesse and probably will never leave. I play fervently every day. I will get better, better than the next guy, and I wont accept any less than the best from myself. If it isnt my passion, then im a damned lunatic. These feelings that i have inside myself will make me become what i want to be. in part... a blues man.
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 9:17 PM
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Kyzer Sosa
432 posts
Apr 22, 2010
9:22 PM
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@kudzu: back on point...thats a very impressive list, regardless of the good or bad, i imagine you wouldnt trade any of the experiences. I had to google a few of those names, because i hadnt even heard of them.
you couldnt google people when you were starting out. eh?
Hill Country will be the first time I shake hands with pros, both on stage, and in the crowd. That marks the start of my list i suppose. edit: scratch that, i chilled out for two hours with PT and Jellroll. Theyre on the top of that list...
I look forward to your Youtube vid explaining the other.
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 11:55 PM
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CaptainBolide
47 posts
Apr 22, 2010
10:05 PM
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its all about the passion... IMO
emotions come in pairs, can't have the
desirable ones without the opposing forces that bring them to life.
(hey, is that the blues?!?)
and when an external emotional force effects our-self
enough to create opposing emotional responces. it's not the
initial/external force that requires examination,
but our own internal spark of reaction that does.
untempered reaction is irrationality, and leads us to ugly...
humans are largely reactionary critters.
We typically, while in highly emotional states,
do not form an emotional response to something that is
based on rational insights, but create the rationalization
(justification) for the response after the fact.
this is why the human race is so farked up.... IMO
the sponto-blues stories are great, thanks.
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,,,,,,/``,`,``,,`,``,``,,`,``,``,,`,`\,,,,,
####[C][a][p][t][B][o][l][i][d][e]####
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Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 10:07 PM
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oldwailer
1201 posts
Apr 22, 2010
10:25 PM
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So, I'm just confused here--who did Son House and Robert Johnson hang with to become real bluesmen?
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Kyzer Sosa
437 posts
Apr 22, 2010
11:10 PM
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im trying to muddle my way thru that one MP.. umm...open up for a big enough cat and ill bet youd change your tune....
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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The Gloth
353 posts
Apr 23, 2010
1:13 AM
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@ oldwailer : "So, I'm just confused here--who did Son House and Robert Johnson hang with to become real bluesmen?"
Son House hanged with Charlie Patton, and Robert Johnson hanged with both of them. Before that, Patton was hanging with Henry Sloan, who left no recordings.
At least, that's what I read on wikipedia...
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waltertore
466 posts
Apr 23, 2010
3:39 AM
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thank you to those that appreciated the stories. To the ones I have upset, I am sorry that my life somehow threatens the one you have led so far. The bottom line is if you want to master something it takes one road. If you want to make of hobby of something, it takes another. The 2 can never meet. No judgement on either path, but words on a internet site will never make the hobby road into the mastering road. From this point on, I am not going to respond to any of the negative responses. I am working on growing past this kind of relationship and I thank you for the learning opportunity. I wish you much courage in finding peace in your soul. I meant that! Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 3:40 AM
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kudzurunner
1358 posts
Apr 23, 2010
4:37 AM
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Nasty: "this reaks of a scared Old ignorant man that no one will listen to."
Please reread the forum creed. The statement above is a flagrant personal insult and will not be tolerated here. I don't care how fervently you disagree with Waltertore: you can find a more respectful way of sharing your view in this public forum.
Everybody else: Please reread and respect the forum creed.
Note to Congaron: contrary to your belief, I don't pick on you, or anybody. When I see something that plainly crosses the line, I ask people to respect the line.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 4:39 AM
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kudzurunner
1359 posts
Apr 23, 2010
4:52 AM
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Note to everybody else: This thread is a place where I encourage Walter, BBQ, and others to share stories from their blues lives: in particular, stories about the master musicians who have helped shaped their lives. I can't for the life of me see why that process--sharing life stories--should produce rancor of any sort.
I am NOT trying to suggest that this forum consists of an elite few who have lived the blues life, so to speak, and a majority who haven't. I'm trying to respect the blues in the best way I know, which is to investigate all sides of the learning process. The apprenticeship process--hands-on training passed down from master craftsmen to junior partners--has always been a significant element of the blues learning process. If you didn't know that, this might be a good place to learn something new. In answer to oldwailer's excellent question about who Son House and Robert Johnson hung with to become real bluesmen: I'm not sure about Son House, but Robert Johnson spent six months back in Crystal Springs, Mississippi, if I'm not wrong, learning from Isaac Zinnermon (the spelling is variable). He also pestered House and several others on the bandstand. Robert Jr. Lockwood, of course, learned from Robert Johnson, who was dating Robert Jr.'s mother. That's why he can play RJ's songs with authority. Honeyboy Edwards learned from various people, but it was his first long stint with Big Joe Williams down in New Orleans that transformed his life. He was just a teenager and had to get his father's permission to go.
I've never called myself a bluesman, BTW. I don't like the term. It was invented by white folklorists to distinguish performers who played mostly blues songs from so-called "songsters" such as Mississippi John Hurt and Mance Lipscomb, who played a wider range of material. There was a big debate within folkore circles in the early 1960s. That's when white folkorists invented the term "bluesman." It's not a term that was used in the black community. The terms used there were "songster," "musicianer," "musical physicianer" (in the early period), and "traveling musician." At a certain point, of course, African American musicians began to pick up on the term. I believe that Z. Z. Hill had a hit in the early 1980s called "Bluesman," in which he talked about the life experiences that helped somebody become a bluesman. He mentioned collard greens and blackeyed peas.
More stories, please. And a little more respect for those who have stories to share.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 4:56 AM
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shanester
200 posts
Apr 23, 2010
4:55 AM
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This shit is pathetic. There sure is a lot of backbiting and hate around here.
I am kind of shocked by what people turn into when there is disagreement. Amazing that a song could stir up so much.
If something confronted you in that, maybe you should look at it.
Maybe you do suck. Maybe you're a fucking poser or a little cyber baby that can't hack it in the real world.
Thanks for all the garbage. If I wanted to hear from assholes I'd fart.
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There is nowhere to go and nothing to find, only something to create.
http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
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kudzurunner
1360 posts
Apr 23, 2010
5:00 AM
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I've just deleted Shanester from the forum. Please read his post above, reread the forum creed, and see if you can figure out why.
A little more respect, please.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 5:01 AM
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Honkin On Bobo
272 posts
Apr 23, 2010
6:36 AM
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A couple of observations:
I think oldwailers question was excellent too, but I viewed it as rhetorical. I don't think he was actually looking for names as much as he was pointing out that if you go back far enough at some point there were no "legends" as the music was in it's infancy. Nobody would accuse those players of not being legitimate, hell they created the music.
As much as I understand why nastyolddog was chastised for his tone (and deservedly so), I understand his point. Walter has gone on record as saying that unless you spend time with some of the great legends you can never be a true bluesman (whatever that term might mean, I still don't understand it). This upsets a lot of people, particularly the younger generation whose opportunities to do this may be dwindling. Could any of us walk up to Jason right now and say "Hey J, I'd like to come live with you while you're on the road and study your craft." Is that even possible in this day and age? And if it's not does that mean that you can never be as legit as the old blues masters who learned this way? MAL touches on this in his post.
I'm not saying I've got the answers on this topic. Look, i understand how there's a ton of stuff to learn which can't be learned any other way but to be out there playing gigs. I get that, and I don't think that anybody disputes that. But the notion that you can't be legit unless you've got a lot of face-to-face time with one or more of the greats I vehemently disagree with.
I'm a simple guy in musical terms..I go to a show and the music either touches and moves me or it doesn't. I've developed a friendship with a few of the local blues musicians who i'm pretty sure did not learn the way walters's referring to. I enjoy their shows every bit as much as when a legend comes to town and performs. And I would hardly call them amateurs or hobbyists.
Lastly hope I haven't been offensive to anyone and apologies in advance for semi-hijacking the thread. Adam's original post was about the stories some of our members have about those guys. I'd love to hear'em too. The best I can come up with myself is when Buddy Guy walked right by me during his usual foray into the crowd at one of his shows, which is of course, downright lame to even mention in the context of the stuff Adam, barbequeBob et al have to relate to us.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 6:58 AM
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groyster1
26 posts
Apr 23, 2010
6:46 AM
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I saw willie dixon on vanderbilt campus in the early 80s he said the blues are the facts of life-I could not agree more-everybody has problems its all about how we deal with them-I battled prostate cancer and finally beat it-if dealing with your own mortality is not the blues then I dont know what is
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congaron
843 posts
Apr 23, 2010
6:49 AM
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For me, growing up in rural New york, south of Buffalo, music was whatever we were taught in school or sang/played in church. Vinyl my dad bought at the mall once in a blue moon and AM radio were the conduit to the outside world musically. As far as i know, I had the only harmonica for miles around and I never saw one in public, including my own. For that matter, guitar players were rare, usually young and often "bad boys" with trouble following them everywhere. There was no street music scene at all, no concert venue for 60 miles in any direction.
It would have been cool to hang with an older musician. The only older guys to hang with were garage mechanics, barbers, fly fishermen and hunters.
My musical interests lay dormant and developed more fully later, quite independently of my upbringing in the years after my kids got old enough to share it with me. I learned guitar more seriously because my son took an interest in it and we did it together. I took up percussion more seriously with my daughter. I still haven't unlocked the key to staying serious on my trumpet, but it still play it. Vocal music never left at all.
At the age of 52, I started learning Harp for real. It would be tough to find an older harmonica player around here to hang with. The town is bigger, but it's not much of a music town. All the guys at the local jam are younger and I'm the only harp guy I've seen so far. There are others I know of..all younger. None seem to do the jam.
So, this forum is it for me. If I want to soak up any old bluesman aura, it has to be from here. If I could do it now or could have done it when I was younger, I would have.
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toddlgreene
1262 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:26 AM
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Lee Oskar's not a 'bluesman', per se, but I shared a stage with him last year, and he told me I was 'very good'...I think he was drinking, though.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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Old Dog
36 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:29 AM
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I'm glad this is moving back in the direction of sanity. All this "Yes I am-No You're Not" stuff is giving me a headache.
Who've I met? I've had brief interactions with Kim Wilson, Richard Hunter, our own Adam, Dennis Gruenling, Brian Purdy, Mark Hummel, and Rick Estrin. The cat who impressed me the most though, a true kind soul and a gentleman, was Richard Sleigh. I've also learned a lot from all of you.
I'll never be a seasoned old veteran musician, too late for that, but I do love this instrument, and this music. I, sir am a Blues Enthusiast.
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I used to be young and foolish. Now I'm not so young.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
684 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:32 AM
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that would be cool toddlgreene what kind of harmonica did he use?:-)
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Honkin On Bobo
273 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:35 AM
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"that would be cool toddlgreene what kind of harmonica did he use?:-)"
A marine band..he hates the Lee Oskar cover plates.
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Nastyolddog
589 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:36 AM
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Adam
Please reread the forum creed. The statement above is a flagrant personal insult and will not be tolerated here.
Yep Done,I didn't think i steped out of line but reading the creed Ok,
Bro's please don't think i have Hate for waltor,
I don't care how fervently you disagree with Waltertore:
you can find a more respectful way of sharing your view in this public forum.
I will do my best:)
Honkin on Bobo has got me worked out:)
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toddlgreene
1263 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:37 AM
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Haha...hmmm, I wonder what harps Lee Oskar plays? He was a very nice, approachable guy. Might have had something to do with the fact that at that time I had a whole case full of Lee Oskars.
He had a big carryon bag with a full compliment of his harps in a variety of tunings, plus a preamp, his mic, and a few well-worn effects pedals.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 7:39 AM
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Hobostubs Ashlock
685 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:40 AM
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cool I love lee oskars just my opion though all harps are good all harps are good.
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99
2 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:45 AM
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I met Charlie Sayles in 1987. He was doing a show in Norfolk, Va.. He was the first one I ever saw do Whammer Jammer and he nailed it. He is a nice guy(or was back then) and very approachable. Also a monster harp player. He gave me an instrustional book with a 45 record that he wrote and was selling at the time. I believe it was just him, a drummer and a female bass player-- maybe his wife.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
686 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:48 AM
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ive never met a harmonica player,i never seen one at a show,im the only person in this small town that gets up on stage with a harp at open jams i got em convinced i can play:-)I did meet David teagarden jr (he's a drummer his dad was Bob Segars drummer, at my Karate instruters friends home studio,My karate instruter was Rick Chandler,he is a bass player that has done alot in the past,his friends home studio had about $100,000 worth of gear,this was about 15 years ago though i was just starting to learn guitar.i did do some security work for Rick at a few gigs though to work off the free karate lessons.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 8:03 AM
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HarveyHarp
8 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:52 AM
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Here in New Orleans, you just never know who you are going to get to hang with. After Katrina, the music structure sort of fell apart, and everyone became equal. We were all musicians. I was playing with a band called Sheena and the Swamp Dogs, and one day our bass player, a dentist by trade brought an old saxaphone player to a gig that he met in cardiac rehab. His name was Art Johnson, and he knew and played played with everyone here in the old days, including Fats Domino, Al Carnival Johnson, etc. Seems that all the people that he used to play with were gone, so he played with us for about a year, and he taught me horn licks and riffs, and I taught him harmonica riffs and licks. We had great fun playing off each other.
Since then, I love playing with horn players of all types, and the opportunity crops up constantly here. Not just blues, but jazz, R&b, New Orleans funk, yes, even hip hop and rap.
Before that, When I lived in Florida, the band the I helped start, and played with for a few years had a saxaphone player whose fiance was the drummer for Rick Derringer. She had a non stop array of professional players come in from all sorts of touring bands come and sit in with us, and it was always a lesson. We had a young, great piano player who absorbed it all, and went on to be a great up and coming traveling professional musician, who happens to be Billy Gibson's roommate, at least I think he is.
When I was just starting to play, about 15 years ago (Yes I started well into my 50s), I was running a Blues Society in Ohio, and Billy Branch had a show in the town. I invited him to our jam, and he came and taught us, in about an hour of playing, not only about harp, but how to play chicago blues, and how to play with and listen to each other. I was fortunate to be on stage with him, and I learned valuable lessons, that are still with me today.
I am not a great technical player, and really do not spend much time practicing, though I should, but hanging with the great players have made me entertaining, and a good additions to any band I play with, so I have been told. You can't learn that at home, you must go out, and bomb in public before you get it. My opinion.
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7LimitJI
96 posts
Apr 23, 2010
9:21 AM
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I went to see James Cotton about 10-15 years ago.
He hobbled on stage,sat on a stool, could hardly talk, but when he played, Wow ! His personality shone through and filled the room. He was making little facial expressions as he was playing and was looking at every one in the crowd. It was like he was smiling and laughing as he was playing.
I endeavour to emulate that link he had with the audience during my playing.
We met him after the gig, but as he couldn't talk much,and had little time, we just thanked him and shook his hand.
I like to hope,that maybe, some of his mojo rubbed off on me as we shook hands :o)
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Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 9:22 AM
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MP
190 posts
Apr 23, 2010
11:38 AM
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used to jam with ben reitveld(bass) and jerry martini(saxophone). not exactly blues guys. ben was with art blakey, miles, and currently with santana. jerry was with sly and the family stone, and i think shiela E. and prince. they had a very eclectic band called FRED and even played ZAPPA songs.
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MP
192 posts
Apr 23, 2010
12:17 PM
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PS. i broke bens SM 57 one night.
TAJ MAHAL used to frequent a club we played. he loved the jukebox (45rpm records) and the pinball machine. he'd pretented to try knock me off my barstool and we'd talk mics("i like 'em to squawk" he'd say) and chromatics and stuff.
i had a band called MOJO HAND and he got up to sing midnight hour and diving duck blues with us one night. he loved the rhythm section. the dude is a monster. he does a chilling howlin' wolf imitation.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 12:20 PM
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barbequebob
747 posts
Apr 23, 2010
1:06 PM
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One thing that I learned pretty quickly is that with many of those old guys, you had to be ready for just about anything. Just because they recorded something a particular way, often times they may not do it that way at all.
I first got to meet Big Walter in 1975 at the long defunct Bunratty's in Allston, MA, backed by John Nicholas & The Rhythm Rockers, which featured DAve Maxwell on piano and Mark Kazanoff (Kaz as we all knew him) on sax and harmonica. Walter used Kaz' rig on the bandstand, mic and all, and seeing him for the first time, it was unbelievable.
Between the shows, I asked Walter if he could show me some things, but he said, "Not now, man, I'm too tired." Like most people would, it wasn't going over too well with me, but later I found out why he reacted that way.
About a year later, I went to see him at another long defunct watering hole in Cambridge, MA called the Speakeasy, and got there really early when there was hardly anyone there at all, and saw Walter talking and having a good time with another musician friend of mine, Ronnie Earl. It was Walter's birthday and Ronnie just gave him a 1/2 pint of Walter's favorite drink Canadian Club whiskey, and seeing that Ronnie knew me, they were going outside to have a swig or two and Walter, in his signature way of befriending people, said to me, "hey, come on, dummy!" to invite me over. As I later found out, Walter was actualyly very shy and not easy to get to know, but if you were around someone that he knew, he figured you had to be OK.
I got to know him much more over the years, and saw he could really tell some stories that were often times nothing short of total BS that you had to take with a grain of salt, but when it came to blowing harp, no BS about that at all. I asked him once what what his secret, and his answer was "it's all in your wind."
In my early years of playing, I thought that meant play hard as you can until a friend of mine from the NYC area who was often known as Rocky Junior, and he asked Walter how he played the intro for his cover of the LW tune "Can't Hold On Much Longer" on the Alligator label. He had all his harps packed up for the night and I had my MB in A in my pocket and let him play it. I couldn't believe how soft he was playing it, like a whisper, and there it was. Often times when people asked him about this stuff, he often wouldn't tell them anything or say stuff that was totally opposite of what he was doing, but since he knew me, he thought Rocky Jr. was ok and so he did it. He totally turned my head around and when I got home, I did it that way and there it was and my entire thinking got changed.
There was a time he couldn't make the first night of a two night engagement and when he made the 2nd night, I saw his pinky taped with a splint on it and he had told me he got jumped back in Chicago. What I found out later, sad to say, he was jumped by one his own sons, and even worse, he was also a battered husband.
A harp playing friend of mine years later gave me a copy of 4 cassette tapes of him at Bunratty's, the two best I had in my car and it really hurt like hell when someone broke into my car in broad daylight in a mall parking lot and stole those two tapes and a whole lot of other stuff with that too.
I first got to meet Jimmy Rogers in late 1976 at the Speakeasy, being backed by a Providence, RI band called the Backslap Blues Band, which had John Packer ong guitar (who later went on to become a bass player and eventually went on the road with Duke Robillard, and having joined Facebook, I was saddened to find out that John got hooked on painkillers after 20+ years of being sober and died of an OD about a year and a half ago), and the guy who was only doing vocals at the time, Keith Dunn, who later became a pretty damned good harp player in his own right.
In 1977, I joined a band called the Hound Dogs, which had Ronnie Earl on guitar, Mudcat Ward on bass, Charles Robinson on drums, and Keith Dunn on vocals and Keith had become friends with Jimmy while he was in Austin, TX for a while.
Well, at the end of my first night with the band, I got the news that the following night's gig at the old Lupo's on Westminster Street in Providence was going to be my first night with Jimmy Rogers, and I thought "No Way!!!"
That night, my being nervous was the understatement of the year, and after the first set, I apologized for what I was thinking was screwing up, and Jimmy assured me that I didn't and helped calm my nerves. Like Walter had stated in another thread, no rehearsal, no keys being called out (just showing where his hands were on the fretboard, but since I also played guitar, I knew), and a number of tunes were not played like the recordings.
Once he hit stage, as far as I was concerned, he was the boss. There were so many things I learned from him, some directly, some not directly, just by watching him go about things, including how he treated people who came up to him and showed them nothing but complete respect.
Between shows, he talked about some of the old guys, but not extensively until I got on the road with him and had the time to get to truly hear them and I can tell you, there were so many times I wish I had a tape recorder with me. Some of those stories (and trust me, he had them by the truckload), I wouldn't dare repeat in public, but many of them were downright hilarious.
Jimmy was so much the mentor for me, and in many ways, he felt like a father or grandfather to me.
Another time, we did a short rehearsal of some newer stuff was doing, but one of his older tunes he had never rehearsed (and that's using the term very loosely baecause most of those old guys never rehearsed anything and you were expected to know the stuff, which required you to do your homework in advance), was one of my favorites of his, "My Last Meal."
As it turns out, the way we did it with him, right from Jimmy's own words was the way we did was how he wanted to record it with Big Walter on harp, but Chess had other ideas, which unfortunately didn't turn out all that well.
One of my favorite stories he told was a time when he was getting back into playing in the late 60's and he was on a package tour of Europe with guitarist/mandolinist Johnny Young, who was a huge man, but totally scared to death of planes and flying in general. Well, Johnny was so freaked out that he shook the seat in the plane so hard, that he wound up breaking the seat apart on the plane!
I'm gonna do these in dribs and drabs because they're gonna be kinda long to talk about some of the people that I've met along the way and no doubt shaped me in more ways than one.
Some of these postings that have been on this thread really were very arrogant and disrespectful and so I really hesitated to even put this much out there.
Some people I'll get to talk a bit about later include Sunnyland Slim, Louisian Red, Robert Jr Lockwood, Johnny Shines, Muddy, Wolf, Kim Wilson, Luther "Georgia Boy" Johnson, and Luther "Guitar Junior" Johnson, but for now, I think I'll leave it at that because it's gonna be a long winded posting.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 1:17 PM
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MP
193 posts
Apr 23, 2010
1:40 PM
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JESUS BOB!! almost no point in posting after you.
here's a humble little story but it was fun.
GINGER BAKER(for those unframiliar) has a big jazz background and was the drummer with CLAPTON in the CREAM years.
we were playing at a polo field in hawaii. they film that TV show LOST not far from where we were.
well the match ended and GINGER was all muddy, still in his boots,and drinking beer and toasting us.
he asked to play so our drummer said@#$%!!yeah!!!
man...we played some shuffle madness. it was like this pontiac i used to own( lots of power and totally a smooth ride.) he somehow bent the bass drum pedal(how do you do that?) and broke the drum head. our drummer had him sign the head. good times.
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bubberbeefalo
4 posts
Apr 23, 2010
1:42 PM
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I met Paul Butterfield in Burlington VT in 1966 . He and piano player Mark Naftalin jammed with about 50 people crowded around a baby grand while they waited for their late equipment. Smoked hash with James Cotton backstage at Esquire Showbar in Montreal in 1972. Had a couple of phone conversations with Charlie Musslewhite about microphones he was very friendly and helpful. Finally met him in Burlington around 1980. Played for years with bass player who played for awhile with Big Walter, and drummer who was the 1st white drummer Albert KIng had. I guess this is 2nd hand stuff but wow the stories they could tell
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MP
194 posts
Apr 23, 2010
1:54 PM
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opened for LITTLE CHARLIE AND THE NIGHTCATS and we had to supply thier gear. charlie was happy with 2 deluxes, the drummer was happy with the gretsch set, and the bassist was happy with his gear too.
this is embarassing. for estrin i had 2 12" combo amps. he looked at them. he was NOT happy. i told him i played a JT-30 from kevins and they sounded fine. he brightened up and showed me his JT-30 and asked why i didn't have a super. i mumbled something and we decided to put the amps up in the air on a pile of drum cases. he made those amps sound sooo good. after the show we talked gospel music. he likes the MIGHT CLOUDS OF JOY.
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bluzlvr
348 posts
Apr 23, 2010
2:34 PM
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My first encounter with a famous blues musician was with Freddy King.
Shook his hand (along with a bunch of other people) from the front of the stage.
I remember his hands being really big, with a ring on every finger.
Rod Piazza: Always seemed kind of distant.
I went up to him one night to ask him a question and he ignored me like I wasn't there.
Honey on the other hand was sweet as...
William Clark: One of the nicest people I ever met.
Had the pleasure of rapping with him for a half hour or so.
I asked him "How do you see in the dark clubs with those sunglasses on all the time?"
He took them off, handed 'em to me and said "It's not so bad, try 'em on!"
Gary Primich: Got to rap with him for a while. Another super nice guy.
Lynwood Slim: Another really nice guy. He and Kid Ramos were doing a gig at a place where my band was playing regularly.
When I went up and introduced myself, he insisted that I sit in with them.
I didn't have my harps with me, but luckily I lived close by, so I rushed home, got 'em and sat in.
Had a bitchin' time.
B.B King: I didn't actually meet him but did shake his hand at a book signing when his autobiography came out.
I wanted to shake left handed so that maybe some of his awesome guitar vibrato would rub off on me.
I was on cloud nine for a long time after that.
Thinking to myself "I shook hands with the King of the Blues..."
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http://www.myspace.com/jeffscranton
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MP
195 posts
Apr 23, 2010
3:29 PM
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BBQ BOB.
interesting what you said about playing with little air. jerry martini pointed to my diaphram and said,"you play from down there; i used to do that but nowadays i play up here", and pointed to his chest.
i'm not sure if he meant he was getting lazy or he was giving me advice.
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Joe_L
180 posts
Apr 23, 2010
8:23 PM
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When I lived in Chicago, any harp player that was playing blues harp through an amp used a Super Reverb. The rest used the PA.
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barbequebob
750 posts
Apr 24, 2010
1:08 PM
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Kyzer, one thing that you have to remember is that being great technically still doesn't necessarily translate into being a good musician because I've seen guys with chops up the ying yang have tend to commit the classic cardinal sin of playing AT the audience, sounding flat out boring and overly self indulgent , often having the lack of a very important bunch of X-factors, namely good stage presence, and an inability to CONNECT with the audience, and the idea of playing to and FOR the audience I've seen sorely lacking and unless you're playing in front of an audience that comprises 96% harmonica players, it just ain't gonna come across very well regardless of technical ability.
Anyway, enough of that rant.
MP, the reason for Rick Estrin looking for a Super Reverb amp I can understand because when I started out in the 70's, in this order, the most highly played amps were all pre-CBS Fender amps, the Super Reverb, Twin Reverb, 4-10 tweed Bassman, and the early 60's 4-10 tan Concert amps and you could score any of these amps for about $300-350 apiece back then before the vintage amp market went totally nuts and I still own a real '59 Bassman and before that, I had a real '65 Super Reverb (and I was the 2nd owner of that amp), and prior to that, a real '65 Twin Reverb amp as well.
I first got to see Muddy Waters at Paul's Mall in Bostoback in 1973 and the lineup in his band was Willie Big Eyes Smith on drums, Calvin Fuzz Jones on bass, Pinetop Perkins on piano, George Mojo Buford om harp and Bob Margolin and Hollywood Fats on guitars. I didn't go introduce myself to them after being flat out awestruck just seeing Muddy,
A year later, I saw them again at Paul's Mall, but this time he had Luther Guitar Junior Johnson on guitar and Jerry Portnoy on harp. I got a chance to go backstage and hang with them where I also met a NYC harp player that I befriended named Danny Russo, who had the Cotton and Howlin' Wolf sound better than anyone I ever met, bar none. It was during that week, Mayor White in Boston had declared it Muddy Waters week and sent down bottles of champagne (cheap stuff variety), which Muddy said to everybody that they all could have, but don't touch this here (which was Dom Perignon, the stuff he usually drank).
I never knew who you'd see popping in to see him. I saw jazz great Les McCann drop in once (those two were best friends), the acapella group The Persuasions (and later Muddy called off the band and Muddy and the Persuasions did an acapella blues that was something else). but this one particular night I saw him at Paul's Mall, aa woman named Annie Anderson dropped by the backstage area, introducing herself as Robert Johnson's sister came with a 3 inch thick scrapbook of photgraphs of Robert Johnson that no one at the time even knew existed,
Now as a young man, Muddy had seen RJ, and I knew these photos were legit when I saw his eyes popping out of his head and his jaw dropping. We all got to see these and we were all totally floored. To this day, only 2 of those photos have ever been published out of literally hundreds of them that had been in that scrapbook.
That night, seeing all those photos of RJ inspired him to call off the band from the stage and perform two solo RJ tunes, one of them using the open G tuning he hadn't used in many years, and the whole place just went totally nuts and it was one of those wish you had a tape recorder with you moments I'll never forget.
Annie came down to a few of my gigs before she passed away and she thought of LW as sort of a bridge to rock and roll and mentioned that she remembered seeing more than a few times Robert Johnson and Big Walter playing on her front porch and just the thought of seeing those two together was a mind blower.
One night when I saw Big Walter, he was in the middle of a harp solo when Annie came in and sat half way in the middle of the audience. BW saw her and I could see he recognized her immediately, and made a beeline towards her. He had an extra long cord on his mic and then played right in front of her with stuff I'd never heard him play before or since that was unbelievable. Once off the stage, being there to hear them talk about old times could almost bring tears to your eyes.
Speaking of BW, one time when I saw him, BB King was playing across town at a club called K-K-K-Katy's and before the show, I was hanging with Walter and who do I see dropping by to say hello? It was BB King coming by to say hello and reminisce a bit about some old times during their Memphis days and the last thing I remember BB saying was "When I was in Memphis, he was the one showing me around to where all the ho's were!"
I'll be back with a few more because this will all get too long to post.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
201 posts
Apr 24, 2010
1:50 PM
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hey bob,
the first time i saw muddy,(KOOL JAZZ FEST) the line-up was the same as you described -except jerry portnoy on harp and luther johnson? instead of fats.
they opened every show with little walters 'off the wall' (portnoy had a super and a shure mic) couldn't tell if it was a crystal or CR/CM. didn't matter. it was huge. they were huge. after the show i asked him about his mic and he rattled off some numbers i can't recall. in those days they might have just re-issued the green bullet. i didn't know about mics. i found my first astatic JT-30 in a middle school band directors office. i bought it for $15.
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htownfess
60 posts
Apr 24, 2010
9:30 PM
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Texas Johnny Brown is a guitarist/singer who was bandleader for Junior Parker & Bobby Bland during the Blues Consolidated days, wrote the classic "Two Steps from the Blues," and played on some Duke/Peacock sessions. He told me, "See, the harp is a whole-note instrument, where a guitar or horn or keys is a half-note instrument. With Junior, we would do [Lionel Hampton's arrangement of] "Flying Home" and Junior would take the head [Illinois Jacquet's famous sax lead] on harp and when he got to a place that didn't lay out on the harp, he would hand off to the sax player and the sax would finish it out." That's not a contemporary approach to the problem of chromaticity on the diatonic, but they treated the obstacle as an opportunity to entertain.
As a footnote, a local club used to employ a stage manager/master of ceremonies who claimed to be an illegitimate son of Junior Parker. The facial resemblance was enough to make the claim credible, but what made me believe him was that he said Junior had given him a Marine Band, and that it was an Eb. Around the Duke/Peacock veterans, you have to be ready to play songs in the key of Bb, due to the prominence of horns and crossover with jazz in that scene; gives one the habit of squeezing an Eb or Ab harp into the traveling squad if packing to sit in or jam here, though I'm not sure that Junior ever recorded a song in Bb.
In fact, those old guys were/are likely to call the song key as "two flats" instead of "Bb" onstage, because they had to sight read to get better jobs in that scene, and they won't let you forget it. If you ever wondered how Little Walter had a massive #1 hit with "Juke" and yet reportedly was still deeply wounded by condescension from other musicians when he first took the Night Cats on the road to the Apollo Theater, it would have been stuff like calling song keys that way as a putdown. Makes me think LW & the Myers brothers & Below were probably on a retaliatory mission on their subsequent national tour, doing their best to blow the big horn bands off the stage (as Louis Myers claimed they did).
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barbequebob
752 posts
Apr 25, 2010
1:03 PM
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@MP: When Jerry was with Muddy, the mics he had been using were the Shure 585V (which had a 100K volume pot built in and used the same screw on connectors that the pre-1984 JT30's used, and Cotton used this mic regularly until he went full time into the PA by late 1977 into an Acoustic 450 head fed into a Fendr Showman cabinet with 2-15's), a crystal JT30, a GB that was made well before the reissues, which came out in 1983, as they originally discontinued the GB in 1977, and Shure had no clue harp players were using them when they discontinued them at the time), and for a time, the mic from a Conn Strobotuner.
@HtownFess: That thing about Texas Johnny Brown sounds absolutely true because another former Texan, T-Bone Walker, if you were gonna work in his band, you HAD to be able to sight read or he absolutely wouldn't hire you at all.
Junior never recorded anything in Bb with harp on it at all, and that feeling on condescension was very true and when I had a chance to talk to Louis Myers, he sure did make mention of that, plus the fact that he and LW had tons on non blues material that they used to perform live that Chess refused to record like "Canadian Sunset." All that goes to show you how little respect harp has had going back a long time and at times, still exists, and a big part of the blame SQUARELY belongs on the shoulders of harp players just by the way they go about things.
I first met Louisiana Red in 1977, when he came to a club in Cambridge, MA called Club Zircon. It was snowing like hell and there were hardly anybody there and he was backed up by several musicians whocame from NYC, including Danny Russo and Brian Bisesi.
Red was great and had the Muddy slide sound better than most anybody I ever met, and even threw in Chuck Berry for good measure.
Well, come 1994, Red was on tour with Carey Bell backed by a DC band with a few people who I knew, one being Steve Jacobs, the guitarist, who back in the 70's, was playing bass for a Boston band called Powerhouse.
There was a bad snowstorm and Carey had left the tour for a short period to do a recording session in Memphis, but because of the storm, he couldn;t get a flight back to Boston, and so I got a call from Steve to replace Carey Bell for a few days.
When I saw Red, he recognized me, talking old times, and then he said, "I want LW," and so I said to him, "no problem."
Well, I never played any LW lick note for note at all, just giving him the feel but not doing a clone job and he clearly loved what I was doing and at times it felt more like it was Muddy and LW back in 1951, that kind of heavy. He carried 4 different slides: a glass one for Robert Nighthawk, the long metal tube for Elmore, a slightly short metal one for Earl Hooker, and the short pinky one for the Muddy stuff.
Man, what a blast, but when we got back to where Carey Bell's car was parked, Carey's car was broken into. My last gig, a fun one, was at the original House of Blues in Cambridge. On my site and Facebook page, I have some pictures of that gig.
I'll have more for later.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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