Looking for a new harp. Have 1 Suzuki Manji and like it a lot.
Is it worth trying a Promaster or Hammond? I'm fairly new at this and think experimenting with variety is a good thing. But listening to the wisdom of the experienced is a good thing, too.
I have ProMasters, BluesMasters and Harpmasters but am drawn to the HarpMaster more than the others. I think it may be the coverplates and comb that, although OK, is not as comfortable as the HarpMaster.
I have several Harpmasters, 2 Manji's and 1 Firebreath. I like them all...they all have a different tone. The Harpmasters are a good harp for the money but I like the Manji a bit better and the Firebreath the best. I like the coverplates on the Firebreath and it overblows on 4, 5 and 6 out of the box. It has a warmer tone than the other two due to the rosewood comb. But my next harp will be a Hammond. I'm thinking it will have the nice comfortable coverplates but will be a bit brighter than the Firebreath. It's also almost $20 cheaper.
@Joch230: The tone of Hammond is actually a little DARKER than the Firebreath, a little louder, and slightly thicker and fuller. Now, these differences are subtle, not night and day differences, but they are some of the reasons why I prefer Hammonds. But both Hammonds and Firebreaths are very comfortable harps to play.
The Firebreaths may have a more versatile tone, though. By that i mean it may be possible to vary the sounds you get from the Firebreath a little more, but i like the overall sound of the Hammond better.
The Hammond may not OB as well as the Firebreath, but I'm not really sure since i don't OB.
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2010 2:41 PM
I have a Manji in D and a valved Promaster in A. I prefer the Promaster, it's very responsive and has a beautiful, warm tone. Because of the valves, the chords sound more like a chromatic. I've never tried a regular promaster, though.
I'm not really convinced by the Manji, it sounds good and loud but is not as easy to play. It has also a more agressive sound.
I would go for a Promaster, just because it's the best example of Suzuki tone and ergonomy. Harpmasters and Manji are more MB influenced, and Firebreath is a bit costly for just having a try, although it's an awesome instrument. Promaster valved is just a different instrument with a different technique. If you're looking cheap, Bluesmaster is also an option.
It's not a different technique, if you don't usually play with overblows. I don't OB on my other harps, so the valved one just gives me more possibilities of bending, but the playing is the same as another harp, just easier because it's air-saving.
I mean, the notes are at the same place as on any other diatonic, it's not a different instrument like a chromatic is.
Gloth, you're absolutely right. I own two valved Promasters and they are great. But if the question was just about trying a new kind/brand of harp, then the choice of a valved harp is a whole different step.
I tried almost every suzuki...If you like the Manji which I also love and have to try another suzuki, I would go for the Hammond and then the cheaper Harpmaster. I tried the firebreath, Promaster, Hammond, Manji, Bluesmaster, Sp20, Lee oscar, Seydel silver and am down to playing mostly the Manji ( bright and responsive) Sp20 ( darker and better amplified to me ) and the very very comfortable Hammond also darker then the Manji but still brighter and real responsive. The Harpmaster feels alot closer to a SP20 to me is also very nice for the $$ Keep in mind alittel gapping might be needed for any Out of the box harp to really make it play nicely.
My favorite is the Fire Breath, although I have not tried the Hammond. I've tried Bluesmasters, Promasters, Manji's, and the Fire Breath. For the money the Bluesmaster can't be beat, but I love the tone of the Fire Breath and the sealed rosewood comb.
Depends on what you want to focus on. If you want to play lots of overblows and overdraws definitely go for the Fire Breath. If not then I'd suggest the Hammond. Very nice instrument (OBs work but are a little squeeky), very precise and easy bends.
The Bluesmaster is ok and affordable a little less responsive than the Hammond - OBs work pretty well on that one too. All Promasters I have are half-valved and great to play. Don't know about the non-valved version but I suppose it's very close to the Hammond.
And finally the Manji...have one, I like the tone, I love the bends (especially the blow bends). But OTB forget the OBs.
Last Edited by on Apr 21, 2010 2:10 AM
I have the promaster non-valved in low f and Eb. They are very nice. Comfortable and consistent. I find myself going for the low f whenever somebody calls out anything in C at the jam nowadays. I use a harpmaster regular F for some songs we do in the band. I have 5 harpmasters..also very comfortable and consistent.
@The Gloth: The consensus among those of us who have tried both is that the Hammond is a better playing harmonica than the Promaster. There are several posts from me and others dicussing this on recent threads.
it looks like it gloth. the aluminum combs and the cover plates are identical, except for the paint. unless the reedplates are fashioned from a different alloy. yes, undoubtedly, they are the same.... the extra money one pays for it, is for the hammond name on the cover... ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
I see evidence that there is more of a difference than then just the color or paint job. I took off the cover plates and recorded single notes using Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/). Then compared the sound signatures of each harp and there is a clear visual difference in the sound wave patterns. When I switch combs, the patterns followed the reed plates.
I have bluesmasters and harpmasters. I like both but if I had to chose I'd go for the real dirty tone I can get out of the harpmaster. It's also much shinier!
I have had both the promaster in C and a Hammond in C and gapped both of them and can tell you there was a difference. maybe it comes down to quality control and as was said over and over again, every harp is slightly different due to tolerances. But I still would buy the Hammond over the Promaster after the manjis :) 528hemi
I have two manjis in Bb and did the same test in audacity as HarpMan did: results? the same as HarpMans...two different sound wave patterns. ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
The Audacity test is very interesting evidence that suggest that there must be difference in production specifications and production methods. I continued the Audacity test and compared Manji/Hammond and ProMaster sound waves patterns. Manji had the loudest projections but the most erratic pattern. Hammond was smoother than Manji but more erratic then ProMaster. ProMaster had the smoothest sound wave but had the lowest decibels peaks. This supports comments I've heard that ProMasters are better amplified and better studio harps. I get the impression Manji sound waves support that these are better for Chicago Blues style and the like, where a bit of edge and roughness enhances that musical style. Andy Just is a good example in this YT: Andy Just
You might have seen my recent post where I put Hammond plates on a Manji and Manji plates on a Hammond. I call the Hammond/Manji "HaMonji". It looks great and it fun to play the Manji that way. But I don't care for the Manji plates on the Hammond so much.
I wish Suzuki would offer cover plates options and I also wish they would do recessed reed plates.
For what it is worth..... Shawn HarpMan Freeman
Last Edited by on Apr 22, 2010 8:48 PM
ditto on the recessed reed plates. Its apparent (to me) that the Sp20's are inherently more airtight due to their responsiveness OOTB versus a MB... Seydel even offers a 'Silver+' version of their flagship 1847 model that has recessed plates in a plastic comb. I think it's only a matter of time before Suzuki follows suit in the premium harp category. ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
I ditto the remarks on the recessed plates but not really out of preference ie I like the sandwich plates for playability and sound + a well built harp like the Manji is comfortable. These harps also seem to have a lower profile which I like.
But I am suspicious as one who suffers from nickel allergy (10% of the population) it concerns me that the use of German Silver in the manufacture of reedplates might in prolonged contact with skin create nasty allergic reactions. German Silver is not silver but gets it's silver look because of nickel. Concealed plates would overcome, to an extent, the possibility of such problems.
The plates in Seydel 1847 Silver are German Silver & I suspect that the Manji plates might also be but not confirmed. I have a Manji and whilst it doesn't get a lot of play I have yet to encounter problems. Old harps which also used nickel plated covers are for me a definate no no as the allergy presents within 30mins.
I also go along with the findings that two identical harps ootb would/could produce different sound wave patterns . Sometimes I hear the difference.
I've been playing a Suzuki Promaster in D for four hours. I bought a used Promaster set from one of the members here. This harmonica, once I learned how to play, I can't put it down.
Everything is there! It's hard to explain, but this is just a great harp. The bends are easy and in tune. This is probably the easiest diatonic I've ever played. I can fly around the thing with seemingly no effort at all.
It has a bright tone, and it's noticeable. But I just now played it through my amp and it sounds like an amplified blues harp, can't tell any difference.
I'm liking it more and more. I don't like the protruding reed plates, having played the Special 20 for decades. I wish Suzuki would make a Promaster with recessed reed plates.
Still, this is a great harmonica. I don't see how you could go wrong with this one.
I, too am a big fan of Promasters. There are several reasons why.
~ They are very responsive OOTB ~ Because of their aluminum comb they have nice "heft" to them. ~ For me, the full covers are very comfortable to hold. ~ I like the way they "cut" or project in an acoustic setting. ~ I love their tone.
I've half-valved my full set under the tutelage of PT Gazell hisse'f. They are my go-to harp for melodic playing.
The only thing I might mention that for me detracts from the Promasters I've said before in other threads. They don't work for me ~at all~ for tongue blocking due to the galvanic interaction between my saliva, the German Silver of the reed plates and that lovely aluminum comb. It's difficult to describe but I find the effect markedly unpleasant and distracting. You will know it instantly when you place your tongue over the front of the harp.
If it weren't for that, I might choose them more often over my sets of Marine Bands, Special 20's and certainly my Hering 1923's. But recently I've been enjoying my long- and hard-fought victory over tongue-blocking so it's the old Hohner standby MBs and SP20s for me at this point.
this is an old post....I bought 3 manjis when the price was lower....crossover and marine band deluxe are better...a harpmaster,for the money...best value...about the same as a delta frost...which have been difficult to attain in the past
jnorem. If you like the way the ProMaster plays but prefer the mouthpiece a la the Special 20 then the Suzuki HarpMaster is the harp for you. It has welded reeds just like the ProMaster and in my opinion is a great harp. In your case it would seem the ideal solution. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Or the Bluesmaster, yes, I do prefer the SP 20-type comb. But here's my hangup: I'm growing tired of plastic instruments. I like the concept of metal harmonicas, long-lasting harmonicas that could be passed down to the next generation.
It's mostly attitude on my part, probably, but there's something about plastic that's been getting under my skin lately, especially now that I've played the Promaster. With that in mind I'm going to order an aluminum comb for the SP 20, to see how that feels and plays. So far the only ones I can find are from a company called Bluexlab.
Failing that, I'm pretty sure that I can get used to the feel of the Promaster.
---------- Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Feb 25, 2014 12:28 PM
J. Bluexlab is the only company that I am aware of that is currently making milled recessed combs for the SP20. I plan to start making them "one of these days" but until I do all I have are flat replacement combs for SP20's. ---------- Tom Halchak www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
lately I have been digging the folkmasters. Best $10 instrument I have found. Got good rasp a comfortable profile and I was able to hit all the standard draw bends without taking the covers off. Amped its a beast
Gotta love a good cheap harp -its a guilty pleasure like a teisco guitar, a kay 503a amp or a redhead in a leather jacket
Got a Pmail only this AM asking about Folkmasters-- They are made in China, and frankly, I am spoiled with the Japanese instruments. I recommend only the ones made in Japan.
They may be made in China but the 3 I have got were all pretty good. Especially for a grand total of less than $30 for all 3.
Just ordered a D flat off Amazon for the princely sum of $2.25 and $5 shipping Like I say- a guilty pleasure-like the $2 sub at Subway. The cheap hohners I have tried ace, old standby etc have been junk
I should add that Promaster is my least favorite, although I do like the aluminum comb; I think it's the stock tuning that I dislike- just sounds kind of dead to me.
The equal tuning of the Promaster makes chords sound rough and grating, imo. One can smooth out the roughness somewhat by adjusting one's embouchure.
Manjis were originally very close to equal tuned, but that may no longer be the case, as some players here have mentioned a factory tuning more toward just intonation.
I really like the Manji and the Hammond. I use both. They sound and play differently, and one or the other sometimes fits better with a particular type of music. Also - There are some times I want to use ET, and some times I want to use compromise.
Is the Olive ET or compromise? I know the reedplates are physically the same as the Manji. I am just wondering if the temperament is different...
I presume some tings have changed since the start of this thread, eight years ago. Interesting to see the comments over so many years.
At this point I use Suzuki Manji's exclusively, so there's 25 in the case. Gnarly re-tunes them to a "compromise just". Very even, good volume, great for blues and jazz. ---------- BnT
If I could only pick one, I'd have to go with Manji, but then I'd miss my promasters, hammonds, olives, firebreaths, as for the tuning use for the Olive i think it's just, but that could be wrong.
I have two Pure Harps, C and D, and I like them a lot. They jes so purdy. The rosewood covers are probably pretty durable, but I baby them anyway. No point in taking any chances.
The covers are tall, which takes some getting used to, but the tone is great, imo, and louder than expected. The seal between the reed plates and the covers is completely airtight, which makes it great for wah and "talking harp" techniques.
The gold lettering comes off very easily. Doesn't matter, still a great looking harp
Last Edited by the_happy_honker on Mar 16, 2018 5:55 AM
I didn't find out about the Firebreath until too late, they have a very sweet mellow sound, not real loud but enough. Too bad can't build a full set anymore, but I did get them in 7 key's. Probably need to check out those Pureharps to make sure I don't like them better, cause they most likely are next on the list to be discontinued.
I have a barely used (almost completely unused) "C" Firebreath I would sell. I got it along with a Promaster and Manji to try out - liked the Manjis, bought them to play, and left the Firebreath as a "just in case". So, if you're interested, email me. ---------- BnT
These days, I've really been enjoying playing Olives with aluminum combs. I replace the stock comb with black anondized aluminum combs from Blue Moon. I like their sound and they are responsive.
Stock Olives have the same lightly compromised tuning as Manjis. I have mine re-tuned to ET.
A lot of the parts for the different Suzuki diatonic models are interchangeable--like the Manji Reed plates fit the Promaster comb and vice versa--I like building the "Hammanji", using the black laquered Promaster cover plates, Firebreath covers are the same thing.
