groyster1
1 post
Mar 29, 2010
8:44 PM
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I have about 70 harps,some are 30 years old and still play I recently bought a koch chromatic harp at an estate sale,the only chromatic I have it looks very old but still plays I dont understand when to push the slide in and when not to this is a c harp I think I read somewhere that you should play a chromatic in third position please enlighten me on this
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2012 8:20 AM
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Bluefinger
148 posts
Mar 30, 2010
3:08 AM
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The Koch is not really a typical chromatic. It's tuned like a regular diatonic 10 hole harp but build like a chromatic (slide, valves, 4 reeds per hole, ...)
Basically you use it like a regular C diatonic (first pos in C, second pos in G, third pos in D, ...). The difference is, that cou can't bend the notes like on a diatonic but you can push in the slide to get the note one half step above the note without the button pushed in.
The other approach would be to use it with the button pushed in like a Db harp and release it to get the note one half step below. Sonny Boy II uses this technique on "Dissatisfied" where he plays the Koch in second position in the key of Ab. As far as I remember he uses the slide only to get that minor third to major third run on the 3 hole draw.
It's not a harp that is used very often.
To get that typical big Little Walter/George Smith/Rod Piazza third position sound, you will have to get yourself a real chromatic ... at least a 12 hole, but better a 16 hole to get that low octave as well.
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If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2010 3:09 AM
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lumpy wafflesquirt
187 posts
Mar 31, 2010
1:44 PM
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I think you'll find the Koch is 'bendable'
It's great if you are used to a diatonic but can't do all the bends/overblows and whatever as you can get the sharps and flats [well the sharps] of allt he notes on the C harp. it is limited as a chromatic in that it doesn't have all the notes in the bottom octave. being used to the diatonic in 1st position makes it much easier to play than a solo tuned chrom [which I have just bought and have gone back to 'tune a day book 1' level to find some really easy tunes to sight read.]
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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groyster1
1770 posts
Feb 20, 2012
8:22 AM
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I still have this harp and can only play it 3rd position Dminor-its just to difficult to bend effectively why are the reeds so stiff?
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timeistight
357 posts
Feb 20, 2012
8:30 AM
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It's not that the reeds are stiff, it's that the harp is leaky.
Chromatics are inherently leakier than diatonics, which is why they are usually valved (the Koch isn't). Of course valved harps bend very differently than unvalved harps, too. It's a different technique.
If you want a chromatic that bends somewhat more easily, try a Hohner CX-12.
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Gnarly
161 posts
Feb 20, 2012
5:02 PM
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Suzuki SCX is easy to bend too--
Or some of their more expensive ones (Maret, Sirius)
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robbert
49 posts
Feb 20, 2012
9:14 PM
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I have never experienced the Koch, but I love chromatic harmonica. They are very different from diatonic, but if you love the sound, worth learning.
It was a bit of a curse to want to learn both diatonic and chromatic harp. It was only after I got some traction on diatonic, that I began to apply myself to chrom. I always noodled on the chrom, just to get some kind of feel, but gave most of my attention to diatonic.
With the help of the web, I began to get some idea of how the chromatic worked. I consequently met a blind musician who could play anything, but carried a chromatic with him to jams, because it was easy to transport. With a couple of short lessons, he really got me over the beginning hump with the chromatic, and then it was a matter of putting in the time.
I'm not talking just 3rd pos. blues. Lots of stuff is possible without knowing how to play in every key(which of course you can do on a chrome).
There's a trade-off. I'm probably not quite as good on diatonic as I could be if I had put all the energy into that.
Being familiar with both instruments is really useful, though. I often use the chromatic to help me figure something out on diatonic.
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barbequebob
1812 posts
Feb 21, 2012
8:32 AM
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The Koch chromatic is what LW used on "Oh Baby," with the slide pressed in. Those were tuned the same way as a diatonic and tuned to 7LJI, rather than the usual solo tuning and tuned to ET most chromatics are usually tuned.
I have several older chromatics from Hohner, including a 50's 270 that plays like a dream and a rebuilt 64 Chromonica that I got from Frank Huang while he was still a harp tech at Hohner in 1982.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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WinslowYerxa
191 posts
Feb 21, 2012
8:36 AM
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Little Walter also used a Koch 980 on "Oh Baby" and "I Love You So" (both are really two takes of the same tune).
Like SBWII, LW held the slide in to play in in Ab, and played slide dips - dipping the slide out to drop the pitch a semitone, then pressing it back in again to return to the note he started with.
The 980 comes in G as well as in C. And yeah, it comes unvalved which make it leaky and more challenging to bend than a standard diatonic. But it responds nicely to half-valving, Installing only inside valves on the first 6 holes and outside valves on Holes 7-10,, which leaves your standard bends alone but makes it less leaky and also allows isolated-reed bends on the blow notes in Holes 1-6 and the draw notes in Holes 7-10..
Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2012 8:39 AM
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billy_shines
106 posts
Feb 21, 2012
6:12 PM
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i think you need to silicone seal the first plate to the wood to make it less leaky. i havent dont mine yet. the reed plates are nailed i gapped my draw reeds without taking it apart and it bends alot easier. its good to play it builds lung strength. i have one of those tiny hair dye applicator bottles but i think silicone in a syringe type deal would apply better. but im definately gonna seal the first slider plate to the wood.
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WinslowYerxa
193 posts
Feb 22, 2012
8:41 AM
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Rubber cement will work fine for sealing the slide backing plate to the comb - it won't creep into the reeds and it's completely removable.
The moutpiece-slide assembly in that chromatic (and several others has four layers:
== mouthpiece on top, esting on the slide cage
=== Slide-cage or U-channel, which has edges turned at a 90 degree angle to create a channel for the slide to travel in, and tabs that interlock with the backing plate
=== the slide, which you can move back and forth to change between two reedbanks
=== the backing plate, which gives an even surface for the slide to travel in (instead of the potentially uneven combination of comb front and two reedplates).
You can tighten the screws that holding this assembly down, but too much and the slide will bind - it won't move, or it will grind. So sealing the backing plate can give some additional airtightness. (Thanks fro the reminder, Billy!)
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billy_shines
110 posts
Feb 22, 2012
6:01 AM
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apply the cement to both sides and let dry and stick? i dunno im deathly allergic to acetone.maybe cut a gasket from a silicone rubber glove.
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WinslowYerxa
195 posts
Feb 22, 2012
7:37 AM
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I'd only apply the rubber cement to the side of the plate that faces the comb - otherwise you'll glue the slide to the backing plate.
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