Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > TIME TO CUT THE BULLSHIT
TIME TO CUT THE BULLSHIT
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Nastyolddog
428 posts
Mar 15, 2010
5:50 AM
Time for the Myth Busters I'm in the Badassharmonica camp when it comes to tone,or Pitch

what we need is two Pro players willing to
under go testing in a controlled enviroment,
1 TB'er & 1 LP'er,

Test the Players with sound measuring devices,in a controlled enviroment no amps to be used,
they will have a controlled set of riffs to perform,

and i would suggest the Blues scales allso,
maybe both do some well known tune they both are familiar with,

this type of testing is going to be the only way to end the Myth that Lip Pursers can achive the exact same tone as a Toungue Blocker,

i allso detest the Term Lip Blocking
it's Lip Purseing,
Fish lips,Pucker method,cats bum method call it what you will but leave the Term Blocking out all together,

infact this old age argument has worn me real thin i can't stand it any more,
i'm not to pleased at the way i have reacted but it's time to find out the truth.

my new term for Lip Purseing is
Sphincter method or Sphincter Blocking,
XHarp
282 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:02 AM
"..new term for Lip Purseing is
Sphincter method or Sphincter Blocking"

Wow, You really can be a Nastyolddog. ;-)

On second thought, what difference does it really make? People play whatever they want to play or are happy to play.

Does it really matter that much?

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"Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Bluzdude46
534 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:02 AM
I could really care less. It's all opinions and like assholes they all stink. I'm tired of it. I think there is a place for all harp players who play any style they wish and who are we to judge anyone. If you like the music, listen If you don't don't listen. I am so not interested in who is right, who is better, my way is the only way and if you don't agree you are wrong stupid CRAP. And setting up a test for something as subjective as tone is by far the dumbest suggestion of all.
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The Original Downtown Philadelphia Fatman... Accept No substitutes!
harpdude61
26 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:08 AM
I just don't understand why it is one against the other. Why not learn both? I refuse to take sides or limit myself.
Listen to lip purser Jason Ricci. Great tone, great everything.
List to tongue purser Kim Wilson. Great tone, great everything.
I suspect if you hate lip pursing you can't get the overblow techniques down.
I suspect if you hate tongue blocking that is a problem too.
I love the sound of both, but it is hard for me to imagine blues harp without the flat 3rd in the second octave (6 overblow) or the flat 5th (7 overdraw). That would be like playing piano blues in a three octave range, while the black keys in the middle octave are missing.
harp honkin
30 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:09 AM
Theres no wrong way or right way.. If it works for you it's all good!!!
shanester
139 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:17 AM
"Sphincter blocking"?

I think this thread is a "sphincter talking"!
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http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
KingoBad
209 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:31 AM
I think we should start arguing about the best way to skin a cat.
Nastyolddog
430 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:32 AM
Shanester man you make me smile,
yes i am being a bit cheeky but no more than Adam with some of his posts haveing a go a TB'ers.
Ray
166 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:39 AM
So I guess if everyone doesn't tongue block and doesn't sound exactly like Little Walter they are not a good harp player? Not so. :>)

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 6:47 PM
GermanHarpist
1275 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:39 AM
I'm with you on that one Nasty. Just as ennerving as the fight about if it's the same or not I'm also kinda fed up with the discussion if this subject should at all be discussed.

This controversy is so persisntent, because it goes on all through the harmonica community up to the best pro's... I personally would also like it to be solved - if it were possible.. and that's where I have my doubts (and I suspect that it's a lot more difficult than solving the comb controversy)

The problem is that this experiment is barely doable. There are so many variants (anatomy, skill level) and you would have to do too many comparative tests to eliminate them.

And if there was some science put into harmonica I would rather have it to develop a better instrument. And because this is barely done I suspect that the solution to this controversy will have to wait.

proudly,
Shit Blocker! (as in Bull..)

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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 6:49 AM
shanester
140 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:45 AM
Allright Nasty,

I see the twinkle in your eye.

I guess "sphincter blocking" couldn't be anything but a "cheeky" conversation.

Rock on with your bad self!
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http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
GermanHarpist
1276 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:46 AM
Ray, no reason revertin to irony and caps - keeping it civil and good natured.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 6:48 AM
Oxharp
215 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:52 AM
What about us Hybrid Blockers/pursers how would you test for that?
I say just leave it alone its been done to death let it die with the spammers.
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Oxharp
arzajac
113 posts
Mar 15, 2010
6:56 AM
Okay. One we finish this experiment, we can then use the same measuring tools to go over every single blues harmonica record and give each one a rating. We can then sort then from good to bad and that will also end the debate as to who should be on Adam's top ten list.

Great idea.

After that, we can expand the concept to objectively rate other kinds of works like, say, paintings. I can't wait to see Renoir kick Van Gogh's ass!
GermanHarpist
1278 posts
Mar 15, 2010
7:01 AM
As I read the OP, Nasty says that he wants to know if LP could sound like (immitate) the tone of TB's... At the same time they should find out if the TB could sound like LP. And then they should analyze which one of these gives you a wider range of tone (this one will IMO be the superior one tonewise). All very interesting, but it will remain a mistery.
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germanharpist on YT. =;-) - Resonance is KEY!

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 7:05 AM
MrVerylongusername
974 posts
Mar 15, 2010
7:33 AM
Didn't Buddha already post an audio file of him playing TB and LB? Did it not show that both can be thin or fat? It's up to the player.

BTW @NOD,
did'nt you post a thread dedicated to your local hero - a lip purser? Seems at the time you made a big deal that he played LP, but those comments seem to have been edited over the last couple of days. Is he no longer your hero because he lip blocks???
5F6H
15 posts
Mar 15, 2010
8:36 AM
I think Nastyolddog has a suggestion there...

For those who don't care, don't get involved, but personally I think it would be interesting.

I think that to make it a controlled test (as far as the term can apply) that the test piece is a good call, I'd also suggest, because we are talking about thickness/thinness of tone that articulations are kept to a minimum (so as not to give the game away), or not used at all (if possible...this will be hard for some). Also, getting a player from each school seems pointless...as we don't really have a comparison as to what each would sound like using the other technique. Therefore if people could submit 2 samples, one of each, for comparison, it would make more sense. Obviously, it might take a bit of work for players to even out the techniques. I am happy to get the ball rolling & post a clip temporarily on my myspace.

Test piece suggested is "Summertime" head (tab readily available), in 2nd pos, A harp. Measuring tools? I'll be using my ISMTs (inbuilt sonic measuring tools), the flappy skin covered things on the sides of my head - as these are the standard tools used in concert halls, studios & schools the world over to assess sound quality.

thoughts comments..?

By the way...

Harpdude 61 wrote "Listen to lip purser Jason Ricci. Great tone, great everything.
List to tongue purser Kim Wilson. Great tone, great everything." Kim plays both ways, 2 & 3 bent draws are often lip pursed. I doubt anyone hates either way, because so few players really seem to be able to tell for sure. There isn't really controversy amongst working players, they play the way they play & let their schedules & discographies speak for them.

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 8:38 AM
barbequebob
603 posts
Mar 15, 2010
9:55 AM
Kim Wilson, as I do, uses both the tongue block as well as the lip pursing method, often changing in mid phrase.

The arguement between these two methods borders almost on silliness because each have things the other one cannot do. Junior Wells was clearly the lip purser, and the only way you can play some of the stuff he did on the Hoodoo Man Blues LP, especially on his cover of Kenny Burrell's Chitlins Con Carne, and Messin' With The Kid that he did on the Vanguard Chicago/The Blues/Today series cannot be done tonge blocked at all. Does this make him a crap player?? I don't think so.

The way this arguement is going on what's better makes me either want to laugh like hell or puke.

BTW, sphincter blocking is a little too gross for my taste as there are enough A-holes in the world already.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
harpdude61
32 posts
Mar 15, 2010
11:00 AM
5 stars for BBQ Bob!
gene
415 posts
Mar 15, 2010
11:47 AM
I kinda like the idea of a scientific study, but it would have to use MANY players; not just two. My hunch is that the study would conclude that some people have tone and some don't regardless of LP or TB, as illustrated in VeryLong's post:
"Didn't Buddha already post an audio file of him playing TB and LB? Did it not show that both can be thin or fat? It's up to the player."


I didn't think tone was the issue with TB vs LP. I thought the issue was that you can do some things with LP and other things with TB. What do you want to do on the harp? _______. Well, then use primarily the method that best suits that style. Wouldn't hurt to learn the other method, too.
gene
416 posts
Mar 15, 2010
11:47 AM
I kinda like the idea of a scientific study, but it would have to use MANY players; not just two. My hunch is that the study would conclude that some people have tone and some don't regardless of LP or TB, as illustrated in VeryLong's post:
"Didn't Buddha already post an audio file of him playing TB and LB? Did it not show that both can be thin or fat? It's up to the player."


I didn't think tone was the issue with TB vs LP. I thought the issue was that you can do some things with LP and other things with TB. What do you want to do on the harp? _______. Well, then use primarily the method that best suits that style. Wouldn't hurt to learn the other method, too.
MrVerylongusername
977 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:09 PM
Gene, I think a big part of the problem is that people use the word 'tone' to mean different things. Like you say, tone isn't about flutters and tongue slaps and vibrato - those are stylistic embellishments. Tone (as I understand the word) simply means the pure sound of the harmonica. How you get the air into the harp would seem to be irrelevant, what matters is the resonance in the mouth and throat.
congaron
675 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:34 PM
Here's one for ya...I don't think the audience cares about tone at all. Guitar players are obsessed with it. Turns out, harp players are too. I spend most of my time on stage trying to sound like a trumpet or sax and only sound like a harmonica when i play chords or straight into the pa via my vocal mic. I only do it (the tone chase) for variety. I'm convinced the tone chase is all inside us and that the crowd couldn't care less about it. I will concede that if you don't like your own tone it can affect your playing in a negative way, if you obsess about it on the stage. I prefer to do my tonal obsessing at home and concentrate on audience reaction when playing live. Whatever I can manage for tone is all i have and the quest may never end if I don't end it somewhere....so i'm getting a new speaker and a mic and that's it...and work on tongue blocking...and vibrato...and...

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 12:36 PM
MP
79 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:39 PM
i'm with bob. check out very early junior wells stuff before the hoodoo man sessions. fat like all get go.
Joe_L
87 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:42 PM
Why would anyone want to solve this conundrum? It make for fabulous forum and mailing list fodder.
The Gloth
308 posts
Mar 15, 2010
12:55 PM
I don't agree with the idea that the audience doesn't care about your tone. The audience (normally) cares about hearing good music. Better is your tone, better the music sounds.
congaron
677 posts
Mar 15, 2010
1:26 PM
Not necessarily. Bad playing cannot be covered up with good tone. Good playing doesn't require any specific tone. Look at the harmonically harsh and human ear abusing tone of some metal guitar players. Good playing, practically white noise for tone with some single frequencies a little louder as those strings are hit so you can hear some of the notes. Thrashing, ear abusing sound that sounds "good" because of the playing skill. Great for head banging parties.

Tone is COMPLETELY subjective, so pleasing everybody is a crap shoot at best. My lead guitar player is a tone nut, but he always comments on a player's ability before he even mentions tone. My wife can't even tell the difference between his tones and he works really hard to use different ones throughout a gig.

But, it is only my opinion. I would defend with my life your right to yours...and i have if you live in the USA.

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 1:27 PM
eharp
556 posts
Mar 15, 2010
1:41 PM
do we really have to use bs in the topic? and in caps, yet!!
i got kids that walk by the computer.
shanester
141 posts
Mar 15, 2010
2:19 PM
Yes, I agree. Could we use "poo-poo" instead, fellas?

Let's keep it civil!
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http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
Joe_L
88 posts
Mar 15, 2010
2:50 PM
Maybe, it is a good idea to be able to play both ways and work on your tone until you are happy with your playing using either style.
isaacullah
838 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:02 PM
nOTICE HOW i NEVER JOIN IN THESE THREADS? oH WAIT, i GUESS i JUST DID... dAMN. uH, JUST FORGET YOU READ THIS POST. omg!1 CAPSLOCK!!11!!11
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Super Awesome!
The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
kudzurunner
1256 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:10 PM
Jason Ricci isn't a lip purser. I'm not a lip purser. It doesn't seem to matter how often we make this point. Nobody seems to get it. Or rather, people like Nastyolddog insist on misconstruing it.

I'm not a lip purser.

I use tongue blocking some of the time and lip pursing some of the time.

I use both techniques.

My playing would be impoverished if I were required to choose only one technique.

I love tongue blocking. Tongue blocking changed my life.

I could not play my signature tune, "Thunky Fing," without tongue blocking.

Get it? Nastyolddog: I'm speaking to you. Do you comprehend my words? I mean this gently but firmly, in a friendly way: I'm not a lip purser. I'm a tongue blocker and a lip purser. I believe that it's good for a modern blues harmonica player to master both techniques.

Towards the end of video that I just uploaded of my playing "Every Day I Have The Blues," I did two identical choruses of a Sonny Boy Williamson head. I did one of them lip pursed and the other, much of it, tongue blocked. They both sound great. If I do say so myself.

And that's my point.

My recent posts about lip pursing were, as I plainly stated, a way of tweaking those such as Dennis Gruenling--my good friend, and a wonderful player--who seem to believe that 24/7 tongue blocking, and only 24/7 tongue blocking, is the badass way of playing blues harmonica. I think he's wrong. I think he's wrong in more than one way. But that's OK. It's a big world. I'll preach my interfaith religion, he'll preach his fundamentalism. It's okay with me if some people agree with me and some agree with him.

But I'd really appreciate it, Nastyolddog, as I'm sure Jason would, if people stopped calling me, and him, lip pursers.

We're not.

We're tongue blockers and lip pursers.

I hope I've finally made that clear.

I'm a tongue blocker and a lip purser.

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 3:11 PM
Preston
562 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:12 PM
I've been gone from here awhile. I come back and find another thread like this one? Way to go fellas.

Having 2 different players for this test is also a horrible idea. You want to take 2 guys with 2 different throats, 2 different sets of lungs, 2 different sets of nasal cavities, 2 different sets of sinuses and then measure the tone of a TECHNIQUE against each other?

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who ya are.
Ryan
210 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:21 PM
NOD: "yes i am being a bit cheeky but no more than Adam with some of his posts haveing a go a TB'ers. "

Adam has never said anything insulting about TB, in fact he talks about how often he uses it. You mentioned recently in another post that you think that this board has a problem with TB'ers. I really think you've completely misunderstood everything Adam has written about the subject. He never insults TB, he praises it in fact, but what he does say is that TB is not superior to LB/LP (as many TB'ers insist). At the same time, he also says LP/LB is not superior to TB. What he is arguing is that neither method is superior and both are valid methods, and a well rounded player should be able to employ both. I'm guessing the reason Adam keeps pointing this out is that he's tired of people (almost always TB'ers in my experience) insisting that their method is superior.

If you can post a direct quote of Adam's where he bashes TB or claims that LP/LB is superior, I'd be interested to see it(but I doubt you'll be able to find any). On the other hand I can post several quotes from TB'ers bashing LP/LB and claiming their method is superior(especially when it comes to tone).

BTW, Lip Pursing and Lip Blocking are not the exact same thing. I think most good "LP'ers" are more LBing than pursing(although I may be wrong). I hardly "purse" my lips at all, when I take the harp out of my mouth, my mouth is in a wide open circular/oval shape (not a small pursed lip shape). If I were to stick the harp straight in my mouth, it would be covering several holes (just like when TB), by angling the harp my bottom lip helps to block out the extra hole and allows me to play a single clean note with the harp deep in my mouth. I tend not to like the term Lip Pursing, because if one purses their lips up really small in order to get a single hole, this can in fact lead to having thin tone. Although most people will still refer to a LB embouchure as Lip Pursing, even if it's not technically a correct description. I consider what I do a combination between LB and LP (but closer to the LB side). I also use quite a lot of TB, depending on the style of music I'm playing.

EDIT: I see Adam already clearly stated his position as I was typing this response.

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 3:33 PM
Kingley
1017 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:29 PM
"Dennis Gruenling--my good friend, and a wonderful player--who seem to believe that 24/7 tongue blocking, and only 24/7 tongue blocking, is the badass way of playing blues harmonica."

Adam - I have never ever heard Dennis Gruenling make such a claim.

What he has said is that in his experience there is a noticeable difference in tone from tongue blocking to lip pursing. He has never said that tongue blocking is the only way of playing badass blues harmonica.

Your comment makes it appear otherwise, which is simply not true.

Your statement "I'll preach my interfaith religion, he'll preach his fundamentalism." makes it sound as if Dennis is entrenched in an extremely narrow viewpoint.
Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Dennis is a very progressive player and one of the most respected players/teachers in the world who just happens to view some things differently from you.
7LimitJI
17 posts
Mar 15, 2010
3:41 PM
Well said Kingley.


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The Harpist formerly known as Doggycam

Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 3:53 PM
Diggsblues
230 posts
Mar 15, 2010
4:43 PM
You know I could care less what embouchure a trumpet, sax, clarinet player uses. How a guitar player uses his pick or lack of one. In the end all I care about is the music.
OzarkRich
151 posts
Mar 15, 2010
5:43 PM
I guess I've never realized until this thread that I'm lip blocking instead of lip pursing single notes. I've always assumed that I was simply narrowing the airstream down to one hole even though several holes were uncovered. After feeling around with my tongue it appears that the inner portions of my lips "ooze" over the other holes. Maybe this will help me explain to my eight year old how to get the single notes down.

Thanks everyone
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Ozark Rich

YouTube: OzarkRich

Facebook: php?ref=profile&id=100000279894342
Buddha
1491 posts
Mar 15, 2010
7:20 PM
if the music sounds good then it doesn't matter how it's being produced.


Gruenling is wrong when he says there is a noticeable difference between the techniques. There simply is not. I'm sure he detects a noticeable difference when people do not use equal resonance. I have found that players that are predominately one or the other is usually not 100% proficient with the secondary method.

I've said this before, if you want to be a complete player then you need to know how to do both techniques. Adam does. Jason does. Howard does. Kim does....


These kinds of threads are dumb. Focus on music not technique. Music is separate from instrument, musician, technique, equipment etc... focus on music and the necessary technique will come.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
gene
418 posts
Mar 15, 2010
8:24 PM
When Hendrix plays guitar with his mouth, is he TB or LP?
OH! I know! TP...Tooth Plucking!
Nastyolddog
431 posts
Mar 15, 2010
9:34 PM
Ok this is a fair reaction

Adam i know you and Jason are Hybrid Harp Players,
do i understand what you say yes,
thanks for your gentlemans reply,

if i dissliked Jay or your self i would not be willing to buy some of your Albums,
i do not,and have not said you or Jay are 100% LP'ers

Brother when it comes to knowing whome or who i may be getting involved with clubs or groups,
It gets freaky i have read every thing there is to know about you and Buddha and on the internet,Budda is even on wikipedia,

i read and reread yours and Buddha's answers to your threads,infact i have reread your answer to me many times now,lets say more than 20 times,

freaky i know but i see many answers within in one letter or reply,i see personality i feel senses of frustration or Joy,
this gives me a better understanding of persons thought proccess while typing and thinking not just lashing out,

Do i get confused sometimes at Peoples threads
Yes,

ok i TB do i Hate lippys or Hybrid Harp Players no
as of late the TB LP thing has wore me down,
i suggest a test because i seek answers,

i was very Proud of my tone or pitch as a Lippy
yes i often got wound up when TB'ers bagged LP'ers
i heard it from all sides,
but now i want a simple answer if there is a difference to my ear am i hearing a tone difference or pitch varyations

if so just how minute is the difference or how wide a varyation is there,

MRVERYLONGONE for you to suggest i now Hate my Long time friend,who with myself and 4 others are Foundation members of our Harp club,
just because he is a Lip Purser,is a complete insult to me and my friend,
im holding back big time thats all i will say,

the sphincter comment was very toungue in Cheek
i would not suggest any person put there Harmonica up there Sphincter,
only maybe if they where trying to smuggle one in Prison yes,
but throw away your tooth brush after cleaning it,

thanks for the Bro's who understand this thread and are intrested as am i

PS No I don't Hate any person who have replyed to this thread be it good Flameing or degrading Me as a Person,

The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.

evan if you choose to be an asshole..

But Bro's i realy ain't that Bad a guy
iv'e pated my Dog now and I'm back on my Medication:}

Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2010 12:07 AM
Nastyolddog
432 posts
Mar 15, 2010
9:40 PM
The best way to start skinning a cat is to stick a Knife Fair up it's Sphincter,
For those who wish to know,it works on most Animals even Moose :) :/ :{ Cheers:)

Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2010 10:54 PM
Tin Lizzie
24 posts
Mar 15, 2010
10:37 PM
Geez, Adam, I know I shouldn't speak for Dennis, but I can say that in the two and a half years I've been taking lessons from him, I've never heard him be so adamant about tongue blocking 24/7.... Are you sure you are right about that?

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Tin Lizzie
Gray
96 posts
Mar 15, 2010
11:06 PM
you guys are fuuuunny.
Nasty-pure 100% hardcore aussie style.Rough and ready.
sphincter said WHAT?
Kyzer Sosa
203 posts
Mar 15, 2010
11:26 PM
Im content with my own sound so....
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Kyzer's Travels
Kingley
1020 posts
Mar 16, 2010
12:00 AM
"if the music sounds good then it doesn't matter how it's being produced."

I agree 100% with that statement.

"I've said this before, if you want to be a complete player then you need to know how to do both techniques. Adam does. Jason does. Howard does. Kim does...."

So do Gary Smith and Mark Hummel. Although they do predominantly tongue block, both have stated that they use lip pursing sometimes as well.
MrVerylongusername
979 posts
Mar 16, 2010
1:09 AM
Nasty

I did not use the word hate. You did.
I did not insult you, but you just called me an asshole.
I do remember that you are the guy that threatened me with his lawyer just for correcting you on the value of black label elements.
You have retrospectively edited your post on your local hero to remove all reference to his lip pursing. Why?
Nastyolddog
433 posts
Mar 16, 2010
2:26 AM
Mrvlun Bro yes i have edited my post I thought the Header says it all,
the edit was to add some more insite about my Friend,and how much respect i have for him as a Player,
Yes he is still my Hero,you didn't insult me
but i did feel offended,at your assumption
of my actions or purpose of my actions,

Bro slow up man you only got one Paragraph,
the bottom Paragraph is taking the piss at Buddha's
quoate,
but it is Squarly Directed at me
im not calling any persons but my self an asshole,

I do remember that you are the guy that threatened me with his lawyer just for correcting you on the value of black label elements.

Bro you realy got me on this one above
i don't remember posting any threads about Black Label elements,

But Bro believe me i may get a bit Pissed at times
but to hate or threaten People,
thats to Heavy for me,

i can't say sorry for my Fuck ups i live with them,
i do not Hate or Diss like you in any manner
feel free to reply to me anytime,
phogi
344 posts
Mar 16, 2010
3:47 AM
Here's a legit question with an answer:

Why are there such heated debates of technique?
Why do people say "you have to do it this way, or you are no good?"

Answer: It's an outgrowth of learning. When you learn something, eventually you bump into a part that is difficult enough that you must really knuckle under to master it. In such a case, it's useful to say to yourself, "I must do this." "I'm not good enough if I can't learn this thing." "I want to be better than all those chumps who can't learn this."

Teachers use this technique as well. They say "you need to be better than the chuffers, do it the way I am telling you."

So, it's only a matter of time before it (whatever it is) gets sprayed across everybody. This is not all bad. But, in the tb vs. lp debate, the horse is DEAD!

Everybody knows that you need to learn to tb to play octaves and to do tongue slaps, etc... They also know that playing fast while TB is difficult. Hence the surprise when people find out Sugar Blue is a TB player.

Oh, don't forget the identity factor too...
7LimitJI
19 posts
Mar 16, 2010
4:10 AM
I don't think, on this thread anyhow that anyone has said, you must do one or the other.

I certainly don't.

Earlier its been said that tongue slaps are "stylistic embellishments". Not for me.

I base my playing around tongue slaps. They are an integral part of how I play.

Big Walter was the player I tried to emulate.
By using slaps I was able to get as close as I could.

Now, I'm listening more to Little Walter,Rod Piazza and Gary Primich, these guys mixed it up a lot more.
Therefore, I'm going to have to mix it up more too.

The bottom line is play what and how YOU like,to get the sound YOU want,and not what anyone else says you should.




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The Harpist formerly known as Doggycam

Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace


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