Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > LoZ 585; convertible to hiZ?
LoZ 585; convertible to hiZ?
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SuperBee
5866 posts
Apr 06, 2019
5:36 PM
I have a LoZ 585. The threads were destroyed and a mic tech replaced the connection with a switchcraft screw on.
Fine, but my screw on cables are all phono 1/4” at the other end, and so won’t plug into any standard impedance converter I can find. Even if they did, I don’t think there’d be any point because this is now an unbalanced signal.
Effectively I’ve just got a LoZ and low output unbalanced mic.

It’s really not much use to me, so I thought of replacing the capsule with a ‘Heumann element’. When I expressed this idea, I was advised to look into the possibility of installing a transformer to convert the mic to hiZ instead.

I’ve been looking but so far turned up nothing.
I see both the hi and Lo impedance 585 used the same capsule and the hiZ version did indeed just use a transformer, but I’ve also seen that the transformer was not available as a replacement part, and was considered integral to the mic body.

Does anyone know if there’s a suitable part available which would fit?
indigo
558 posts
Apr 06, 2019
7:48 PM
Well i've used a transformer out of one those cheapo Japanese tape recorder mikes to do the same thing.Worked well.
From memory it was an Akai DM12 but there are a lot of others that have nice trannies in them.
It did change the Tone a bit but(to me) it still sounded good.
SuperBee
5867 posts
Apr 06, 2019
9:57 PM
Thanks, Indigo.
with some enthusiasm i began taking the mic apart.

only to find its been assembled in such a way as to be quite difficult to take apart.

the guy who fitted the mp2501 connector appears to have used epoxy to secure it, and he has not left enough length in the internal leads to get the switch out of the mic body

i'll have to work out how to remove the switchcraft fitting before i can do anything else.
indigo
559 posts
Apr 06, 2019
11:57 PM
Why not shorten the mike ie saw off the barrel and remove the MP2501 altogether.
What i do is then epoxy a suitably sized washer to the end of the barrel.(you might have to file the hole of the washer a bit so it will allow you to run the mike cable through)
Do it right and it all looks as good as gold.Half an inch or so off a 585 barrel doesn't have any effect on the elements tone.
Buy the washer first and then cut the barrel to suit the washers diameter.
jbone
2881 posts
Apr 07, 2019
9:17 AM
I had a high z 585 with the volume control, but it was not working. I took it as apart as I could, not being set up for that kind of work really. It was also full of epoxy. I think maybe Shure made the 585 this way. I let the whole mess go to a guy who needed a project, which was like tossing it out apparently.
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dougharps
1934 posts
Apr 07, 2019
8:13 PM
I have 2 585SAVs and one 585SB and all work fine. For reference, here is the data sheet on the 585SA and 585SB, the high and low-z mics with switches and not the the mics with volume controls.

You may already have this data sheet with high and low z wiring diagrams on the second page:



Shure 585SA and 585SB data sheet

The correct connector for the balanced low-z 585s, the "B" coded 585 mics, uses two prongs and the mic body going to the shield ground and is called an Amphenol MC2F. I wired my two pronged screw on connector into a pigtail to an XLR male jack so I can then use a regular XLR cable from the low-z balanced mic. I could run XLR to an impedance converter if I wanted to play to an amp needing high-z unbalanced or just to the PA XLR mic input.

You may already have all this information.

I think that fixing the wiring at the connector end of the mic in order to make it low z would be a lot easier than trying to get everything apart and put in a transformer in order to make it high-z. The easier more efficient project would involve fixing the connector issue with correct wiring for low-z balanced and letting the mic be what it is, a low-z mic. Then you could address the impedance issue outside of the mic with a transformer for high-z to an amp, or just go low-z to the PA

The problem that you seem to have is that you don't know how your "mic tech" wired the white and black balanced signal wires (that should have gone to the 2 prongs of a 3 wire connector) into a one pole screw on connector. It is possible that they just sacrificed half the signal.

You likely don't know how to undo that problematic wiring to recover the black and white wires and use a balanced connector for 3 wire balanced. If you could recover the wires you could get a correct MC2F connector set that could fix it. Or perhaps you could substitute a mini XLR set or a trs connector set going to an xlr male connector. You also could hardwire a balanced cable directly into the mic, ending in a male XLR connector.

It seems more efficient and easier to repair the connector wiring error and use it as a low-z mic than to try to take it apart and remove glue to try to make room for a nonstandard transformer in the mic.
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Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Apr 07, 2019 8:31 PM
SuperBee
5869 posts
Apr 07, 2019
9:50 PM
I’d have been happy for it to remain LoZ but for the 2501Mp which has been installed.
Initially it seemed the most likely easiest fix would be a transformer, as the capsule is the same as the hiZ version.
On investigation I found this is not going to happen unless I can remove the switchcraft connector.
If I do that, then yes I could keep it as a LoZ mic. However it would require more work to convert it because if the original problem, which was badly damaged thread on the connector end of the mic.
I already had to take the mic apart from the top to see how the switchcraft connector has been installed. I still can’t really see how that is coming out without application of destructive force
LFLISBOA
43 posts
Apr 08, 2019
6:01 AM
There's some cheap 585 on Ebay. In my opinion it's not worth the trouble, unless you really want to learn how to fix it.I'd save this one for parts (element, grill) and by another one.
MindTheGap
2601 posts
Apr 08, 2019
7:30 AM
How about a little RS box and put the transformer in there with 1/4" in and out. Then you can us it for other Lo-Z mics like that.
dougharps
1936 posts
Apr 08, 2019
8:35 AM
Have you tried putting the 1/4" unbalanced low-z signal into a mixing board input?

Remember the Shaker dynamic with the 1/4" low-z output?

The Shaker dynamic 1/4" output mic is a mic with a low-z unbalanced signal. It can work with an amp, but doesn't sound the best used that way. It is reported to sound good into a mixer 1/4" input, but for an amp it is recommended that you run it through a transformer to get a higher impedance needed for an amp.

So what you would need to accomplish that with the Shaker (or with your mic) is an adapter that would take your 1/4" plug and change it to an unbalanced XLR male in order to go into a line matching transformer or into a passive DI XLR input. You could either buy a separate adapter for your cable that goes from 1/4" to male XLR, or you could change one of your cables to have the male XLR end that is needed built in.

I would try something like that before giving up on the mic or tearing into it and possibly damaging it. You would not be changing the mic, just changing what you do with the signal.
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Doug S.
SuperBee
5870 posts
Apr 08, 2019
3:40 PM
i do appreciate all the suggestions, but this mic requires internal repairs, in the form of resoldering connections at the switch. That’s not really possible without access to the connector as there’s no slack on the internal leads.
LFLISBOA is on the mark here I think.
Or indigo.

It’s already beyond ‘leave it alone’. I don’t think I’ve ever used the expression “lol” and I’m not about to start now.

Last Edited by SuperBee on Apr 08, 2019 4:56 PM


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