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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Heat and hot harps
Heat and hot harps
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AppalachiaBlues
205 posts
Jul 27, 2018
6:40 AM
Many of us across the northern hemisphere are experiencing record high temperatures (30-40C, 85-95F). The grass across northern Europe has turned brown. California and Japan are roasting. Just wondering... how does the really hot temperature effect our harmonicas? Does the tuning change? Are the reeds easier to bend? Do the reeds expand to sit tighter in the slots for a more airtight play? Are hot reeds more/less susceptible to breakage?

I'm not sure if there is any real impact. However, I do know that a Manji sitting in the sun for a long time can be awfully hot to pick up ;-)

I guess that thread about the appropriateness of "performing in shorts" can be put on pause.

Please share your thoughts about playin' in this summer heat...

Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jul 27, 2018 6:42 AM
jbone
2644 posts
Jul 27, 2018
6:51 AM
I don't know. Seems like if the reed expands in the heat the plate would too.
I keep my harps inside in their case, in the house, never in the car. Too many people lose their stuff leaving it vulnerable so I feel like taking steps.
I did just get a 6 harp belt from Ron I figure will be easy for busking. Less harps to lug. But even so I don't plan to be out where it's too hot.
Last week it hit 106 in Tulsa and I had to be on deck outdoors, thankfully in the shade and not exerting.

In the past I have played some daytime gigs in 100+ heat. No shade except under my hat. My harps did not seem to suffer those times.

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jbone
2645 posts
Jul 27, 2018
6:52 AM
I don't know. Seems like if the reed expands in the heat the plate would too.
I keep my harps inside in their case, in the house, never in the car. Too many people lose their stuff leaving it vulnerable so I feel like taking steps.
I did just get a 6 harp belt from Ron I figure will be easy for busking. Less harps to lug. But even so I don't plan to be out where it's too hot.
Last week it hit 106 in Tulsa and I had to be on deck outdoors, thankfully in the shade and not exerting.

In the past I have played some daytime gigs in 100+ heat. No shade except under my hat. My harps did not seem to suffer those times.

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SuperBee
5513 posts
Jul 27, 2018
6:54 AM
i could use some. i'm sitting with my gas heater running on 4 burners and im still quite alert, here at 42 South.

once i left my hohner 270 on the table near a sunny window. i can confirm the reed plates expanded. that was the end of the comb.

Last Edited by SuperBee on Jul 27, 2018 6:55 AM
AppalachiaBlues
207 posts
Jul 27, 2018
6:58 AM
We need a scientist/physicist. Does the difference in material used on the reed and the reed plate (as well as the difference in thickness) cause them to expand at different rates?

Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jul 27, 2018 6:58 AM
STME58
2072 posts
Jul 27, 2018
12:22 PM
I already have a model for reed frequency at room temp. I'll add thermal expansion for brass and see what happens.

I often keep a trumpet, trombone, and harps in my car. So far I have seen no ill effects from the heat. It is unusual to have to blow though the instrument for a few seconds to cool it down rather than warm it up though :-)
Flbl
167 posts
Jul 27, 2018
1:50 PM
Just a typical summer here in sunny Florida, 95 out side and 140 in the truck, and let me tell ya, A DRY HEAT IT'S NOT, right now i have a session steel with a Zajac comb sitting in a nitch in my dashboard, no problems, I have had Manji's in the same place no problems and they always seem to play fine. None of them have valves though, think that could be a problem, the composite combs seem to flex. Super Bee is right i wouldn't try the same thing with a wood comb harp. I'm not really sure what difference there would be, but it seems to me that a metal comb since most being a different metal than the reed plates would expand at a different rate.

The real problem is explaining to a doctor why you have third degree burns on the lips.
AppalachiaBlues
208 posts
Jul 27, 2018
2:10 PM
SuperBee
5514 posts
Jul 27, 2018
2:24 PM
The gap of the crack in my 270 comb was so large that the chamber wouldn’t play properly. I put the harp away in its case.
Some time later I got it out and was surprised to find it played quite well. I looked at the comb and saw no gap. Could I have misremembered? On close inspection I could see the break but the gap had closed up.
Further experience showed me the gap would open if I left the harp in the sun.
I replaced the comb and now take care to keep it in its case, out of the direct sun.
The break was where they always break, where the reedplates are nailed to the narrow part of the comb but the expanding and contracting gap demonstrated just how much movement was occurring
nacoran
9920 posts
Jul 27, 2018
2:54 PM
I'm not worried about the reeds, but it might be a hazard in a hot car for combs.

And burning lips, which is maybe better than freezing your lips to your harmonica but not by much. The best way to deal with this is to play really fast notes when it's hot so your lips don't rest in one spot too long and to play really long sustained blows to unfreeze your lips in the cold! :)

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Nate
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outdoor joe
95 posts
Jul 27, 2018
3:04 PM
Hahaha nice @nacoran.

I live in the Chihuahuan Desert and it is just hot here all the time. I've got a pouch I carry a harp in instead of leaving one in the car b/c it just gets too hot in there.

I did used to live in the Great White North, and miss the snow dearly. I to this day would rather be cold as the tundra, than hot as hell, because, well, you can always put on more clothes. You can only take so much off.
isaacullah
3271 posts
Jul 27, 2018
10:03 PM
I just came in on this thread to say that "Heat and the Hot Harps" would be a killer band name!
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jbone
2646 posts
Jul 28, 2018
7:18 AM
@ Superbee- I once decided to try beeswax seal on a 270 comb. I heated the wax and applied it, then thought it would be really smart to put the comb in a warm oven for just a couple of minutes to let the wax spread evenly. When I took the comb out it was warped like a pretzel! It never went back together even after drilling and tapping for screws through the comb into the reed plates. I'd guess the oven was under 200 degrees, which we never see in nature.

@ outdoor joe, good idea to keep a harp in a pouch with you.
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dougharps
1792 posts
Jul 28, 2018
7:48 AM
I have a set of 12 LOs that are my diatonic car harps as well as a valveless plastic Hohner Educator chromatic that reside on the floor of my vehicle summer and winter. They apparently have not suffered for it. They remain the same quality as when I put them there several years ago. They will do if I need them, but they are nowhere near being my first choice to play. That's why they are my "car harps".

I would not risk my valved wood or plastic bodied chromatics this way. Windsavers/valves would be at risk of damage or sticking from heat with any valved chromatic. With the 270 weather related comb cracking is a common issue. I would not risk one in a closed hot vehicle.

I would not risk my first string diatonic harps, regardless of comb material. I expect that most plastic bodied harps or composite harps would likely be OK on the floor of a hot car in Midwest USA 100F degree weather, but I would rather not find out in a negative outcome that ruined my good harps.
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Doug S.
nacoran
9922 posts
Jul 28, 2018
4:38 PM
I've run L.O.s through the dryer a couple times by accident. The combs held up fine. Still lost one though. I've always had a bit of a problem with the L.O.'s cover bolts coming off- the screws are so short. Bolt came off, cover came open, one reed snagged on something and bent to the point where it had a crease. Other than that the harp was fine.

Note to self- still looking for chicago bolts perfect sized for L.O.s.

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Nate
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STME58
2073 posts
Jul 29, 2018
9:35 AM
Nate, I too have has harps survive the dryer, even though a cover plate came off. I was luck in that no reed snagged and I just popped on a mismatched cover plate form a broken harp.

SuperBee, the comb crack growing with temperature is expected as the coefficient of expansion of brass is 3 to 4 times that of wood.
dougharps
1796 posts
Jul 29, 2018
10:05 AM
@nacoran

My experience with LOs from when they were my main harp choice was that properly seating the cover plates on the comb and reed plate assembly was trickier than it first seemed. If the covers were not exactly in place the bolt would barely engage the nut, leading to occasionally having one end or the other popping free and possibly losing the nut. Also, occasionally the front of the covers would extend too far and apply pressure to the front lip of the comb, causing the thin plastic lip to split or splinter free of the main comb. When I used LOs a lot I would occasionally need to press the front edge of the covers against a hard surface to adjust the extension and avoid the above mentioned splitting when I reassembled the harp.

At the time LOs were more reliable and durable than SP20s, and the replaceable reed plates were a great option. Hohner and others improved their products and I moved on to other harps.

Regarding heat and harps, I have not noticed any change in the play-ability of my LO car harps, despite exposure to summer and winter temperature extremes from 90F to 100F outside the vehicle in summer (much hotter in the car) to -10F in winter. Harps with tighter tolerances or with wooden comb material may not be as durable.
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Doug S.
SuperBee
5522 posts
Jul 29, 2018
2:36 PM
Indeed STME58. My example was quite illustrative of the amount of expansion which occurred. Had I been thinking about it I would not have required an object lesson to drive the point home. One can find many 270s with combs broken at just the same point. Its clearly the weakest point and no doubt there are a range of possible causes but overheating seems likely to be responsible for some cases.

As an aside, I was once concerned to see fruit with obvious scorch marks in my fruit bowl. It looked as though someone had been testing whether fresh citrus would catch alight. I suspected adolescent curiosity until my wife pointed to the magnifying glass on the bench. Another good lesson for me there, in more than one way.
nacoran
9926 posts
Jul 29, 2018
4:57 PM
Superbee, lol! Yeah, got to watch the magnifying glasses! My first summer job, many years ago, was working as a tour guide at a historical house. One of the tidbits of information that we learned was that if you made one of those old timey bottle bottom windows that you had to make sure to put it on the north side of the house so that they didn't focus direct sunlight onto the floor and start a fire.

When I started reading your comment about the fruit bowl I thought maybe it had a mirror finish. My dad made a solar powered hot dog cooker when I was a kid. It worked well but only really could handle one hot dog at a time. He also had a oscilloscope that he'd made in college. I think both of them ended up in a garage sale when we moved from Pennsylvania.

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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009


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