groyster1
3181 posts
May 29, 2018
3:00 PM
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I attended mitch kushmars class on chromatic harps.....the only one I have is above subject.....mitch said to play it in 3rd position in key of D but looking at the layouts there are several different layouts for slide in and slide out.....walter horton once said chromatic harps will "fry your brain" I get his point very well......please help
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jbone
2558 posts
May 29, 2018
3:10 PM
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Mine are 12 hole but I started with a Chrometta 8 hole and played in 2nd. Difficult and not so pleasing. I play in either 1st or 3rd. I don't use the slide but I suppose you could play a different key with the slide depressed. I prefer to keep it simple.
D is a good key, lots of blues in that key including slide stuff, which to me lends well to 3rd position chromatic. I also have a G and D chromatic which ups my choices a lot.
We play a lot of stuff not necessarily blues. Folk rock, roots, country, spiritual. In much of it chromatic really dresses the song up since we're a duo.
James Cotton, George Smith, and even Little Walter, not to mention Carey Bell, played chromatic, key of C, on D songs. A 10 hole will give you 2 1/2 octaves in 3rd position I think. Plenty to work with!
This reply subject to correction.
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jbone
2559 posts
May 29, 2018
3:11 PM
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Mine are 12 hole but I started with a Chrometta 8 hole and played in 2nd. Difficult and not so pleasing. I play in either 1st or 3rd. I don't use the slide but I suppose you could play a different key with the slide depressed. I prefer to keep it simple.
D is a good key, lots of blues in that key including slide stuff, which to me lends well to 3rd position chromatic. I also have a G and D chromatic which ups my choices a lot.
We play a lot of stuff not necessarily blues. Folk rock, roots, country, spiritual. In much of it chromatic really dresses the song up since we're a duo.
James Cotton, George Smith, and even Little Walter, not to mention Carey Bell, played chromatic, key of C, on D songs. A 10 hole will give you 2 1/2 octaves in 3rd position I think. Plenty to work with!
This reply subject to correction.
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WinslowYerxa
1576 posts
May 29, 2018
4:59 PM
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There's only one standard note layout for chromatic harmonicas in C, the one that has blow notes C E G C and draw notes D F A B.
Some start on the G below middle C, or the C below that, but they still follow the same pattern, just starting in a different place along the pattern (for instance G C C E and A B D F). The draw chord is a big, fat D minor chord with added 6th (D minor 6), and that's your launching pad for playing a chromatic in third position.
You can hold the slide in and play it in Eb instead (technically 10th position), or even put the slide in play for all kinds of possibilities. But most of the time players just keave the slide alone and play it in D. Or they get a chromatic in a different key and play that in third, for instance, using a G chromatic to play in A.
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Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
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Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 29, 2018 5:01 PM
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STME58
2067 posts
May 30, 2018
7:08 AM
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Winslow, from what you said, I take it a chromatic is not typically used chromatically at all, but is rather an alternative tuning that gives you differ chords from the Richter tuning, plus a little novelty note shifter. That would explain why when I posted something done with a minor tuned harp a while back, some folks thought It was done on a chromatic.
I suspect that this is not Toots Thielesman's or Larry Adler's take on the instrument, but you are describing its more common use.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 30, 2018 7:09 AM
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Gnarly
2495 posts
May 30, 2018
9:22 AM
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American blues players will use the chrom for 3rd position almost exclusively, from what I have seen.
I wish it were not so.
Chromatic is pretty useful in 2nd.
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Sarge
687 posts
May 30, 2018
9:38 AM
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The chromatic is useful in all positions, all types of music, if you're not afraid to use that slide. Listen to some of Diggs' chromatic playing.
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SuperBee
5408 posts
May 30, 2018
10:48 AM
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Hi Winslow
The harp which groyster1 has is a prewar and is tuned like a standard diatonic. I also have a couple of these. I’m sure you’re familiar with them, they are similar to the Koch harps but they are fully valved.
I’m also wondering how to make a start using mine.
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groyster1
3182 posts
May 30, 2018
4:16 PM
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@superbee
did not it is valved but greg jones sold it to me and it does have windsaver
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groyster1
3183 posts
May 30, 2018
4:18 PM
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BTW......the notes are same as 10 hole diatonic with slide out......with slide in......big walter said the chromatics will fry your brain
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Crawforde
172 posts
May 31, 2018
4:02 AM
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Slide-in should be the the same layout too.
If you hold the slide in, it can now be thought of as a regular Richter harp in Db
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SuperBee
5415 posts
May 31, 2018
6:59 AM
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Yeah that’s true Crawforde.
But it isn’t like playing a straight chromatic. if you’re trying to follow advice about playing a normal solo-tuned chromatic it’s gonna be a little different
The best idea if you want to play a chromatic in blues style 3rd position is probably to get a different harp
But it may be that a person would like to get some use out of the harp they have in hand. That’s how I feel about mine. I’ve acquired a couple and they are in good shape.
I think the cool thing with these is probably to play in 2nd position holding the slide in (ie. playing in Ab) which would enable some semitone dips not often heard with a normal diatonic. But the details.. I guess it’s just a matter of getting stuck in and working on it
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WinslowYerxa
1577 posts
May 31, 2018
1:07 PM
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My apologies. I did forget about the slide harmonicas that are tuned like diatonics (which is how I tend to think of them - slide diatonics).
They are not what Mitch Kashmar would have been referring to, so it did not occur to me to consider them. (But - duh - look at the thread title!)
The Hohner versions of slide diatonics, the Koch 980 (unvalved) and the Slide Harp (valved),are no longer made, but some other second-tier manufacturers still make them.
Both Little Walter and Sonny Boy Williamson II used them, holding the slide in to play in Ab on a C instrument, as if playing in second position on the C# "side" of the harp, and then releasing and re-engaging the sldie to dip the pitch of a note down and semitone and then back up.
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Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
SPAH 2018 - August 14-18 in St. Louis
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 31, 2018 2:15 PM
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WinslowYerxa
1578 posts
May 31, 2018
1:23 PM
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@STME58 -
American blues players tend to use the chromatic diatonically, playing in either third or 10th (often thought of as "slide-in third") positions with the slide either ignored when playing in third, or held in when playing in 10th. However, some blues players play it occasionally in second (Check out Paul deLay's "Why Can't You Love Me), first, and 9th (Ab on a C, like "slide-in second position").
But in the wider world on chromatic, of course players play it in any key.
I've made recordings playing blues chromatic in:
Third position using the slide (E on a D chrom, using the Roller Coaster backing track: Conspiracy Theory
Fourth position (A minor on a C chrom): Blue Rant
Fifth position (E major on a C chrom): Cup of Wine
Sixth position (B minor on a C chrom): Blue Chrome
Tenth position (Eb), alternating with third (D): Winter Solstice
Fourth position (A), alternating with eleventh (Bb): Summer Solstice
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Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
SPAH 2018 - August 14-18 in St. Louis
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 31, 2018 1:33 PM
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STME58
2068 posts
Jun 02, 2018
10:55 AM
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I had a cheap chromatic ($8 in Shenzhen China Music store) which I played until it became unplayable. My first inclination was to start trying to learn to play major scales on it. I wonder if what you played before influences your approach to the chromatic. I might expect horn players to approach it more like a melody instrument that can play in all keys, and string and keyword players to explore more of the chordal possibilities.
I am considering getting a real chromatic, I was going to pick up where I left of on scales, but this thread has opened up the possibility of playing one more like a diatonic. Seems like a chromatic is a versatile tool to have in ones kit.
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2chops
574 posts
Jun 02, 2018
2:53 PM
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I have a 10 hole Chromonica in C. Had it worked on by Mike Easton. Love it. D minor is most common usage for me. But using the G major be bop scale and A minor scales get me a lot more use out of it with my band. Easy to keep on hand since it fits perfectly in a hard clamshhell eye glasses case.
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