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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
why repair tools so expensive?
why repair tools so expensive?
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Frankie
115 posts
Mar 24, 2018
4:29 AM
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I do not want to name the website or person
but the guy's harmonica repair tools is crazy expensive it seems it is because there is no competition out there. I went through all of his tools there is nothing so special there .
What do you think guys?
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Crawforde
164 posts
Mar 24, 2018
5:04 AM
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Try this,
Buy some materials and make your own. Keep trying until they work well and comfortably and you can get consistent results. Now perfect the operation. Did it work? Great. Now make your own. Problems? Not enough time? Buy some, and be glad someone else did the hard part.
If you were successful and like your own then:
Figure out how long they took to make.
Put a price on your time and the materials that go into them How many sets can you make and sell?
Do you back the sales up with advice if needed? How much time will that take?
Paying for skilled work on good materials is not cheap.
If you buy (or make) and treat your tools intelligently they will last for many years.
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Kingley
4085 posts
Mar 24, 2018
6:16 AM
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I agree some repair tools seem quite expensive. Personally although they are probably nice to own and use, I don't think anyone apart from custom/full time harp technicians really need those tools most of the time.
My self made tool kit I've put together and used for years consists of a Swiss Army Knife, a couple of files, a reed wrench, reed removal pliers, reed lifter, a tuning app for my phone (I also have a chromatic tuner as well) and a couple of screwdrivers. These do everything I need them too when it comes to maintaining and repairing my harps.
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dougharps
1734 posts
Mar 24, 2018
7:14 AM
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Different harmonica techs each have designed or modified their own tools after years of working on harmonicas. They found that the manufacturer's tool kits did not meet their needs. When other players showed an interest in buying tools to do their own work, these techs arranged for tools to be made by machinists or made the tools themselves to sell to interested parties. They could have kept their proprietary tools secret. That would have been the old school harp approach: keeping secrets. They designed the tools and the knowledge incorporated in the tools is part of the cost.
No one has to buy them. The techs are not gathering in huge profits. These techs often generously make repair/customization info available to others at reasonable rates or even for free.
No one has to buy these tools or the information.
I had previously built my own tool set over years before internet information on harmonica repair was available. I had figured out some of the principles on my own. I found some vendor's tools to be a significant upgrade over my assembled tool kit in some areas. So I purchased some tools from techs since then to merge with my home built set.
Some repair or modification tasks that I had not attempted became possible with tools purchased from techs. I have a plastic reed replacement tool which was relatively inexpensive and serves my purposes, but it is not as good as other tools now available on the market. I do not expect to replace enough reeds in the time remaining to me in my playing life to warrant a larger expenditure for a better tool. If I were younger and expected many more decades of playing and repair, I would spend the money for the better tool that would last and function well for a long, long time.
The most often used and useful tool I have, even more than good small screwdrivers, is the bent paperclip. A bent paperclip can allow small gap adjustments without opening the harp. It is inexpensive, adjustable, and readily available.
You can forego a reed wrench with careful use of thin paper like cigarette paper to shift a reed. Draw scrapers, files, Exacto knives, rotary tools each can tune reeds: take your pick. People have used tuning fork ball ends, small socket wrenches, and coins to emboss. You can use shim stock or metal strips taken from security tags to "floss" around a reed in a slot to clear obstructions and burrs.
It all depends on the extent to which you will go in setting up and repairing your own harps. If you are young and intend to repair and customize your own harps for decades, then it is worth it to buy specific good tools. If you are just dabbling in repair to save money, put your own kit together and save for specialty tools when you need them.
If you plan to become a tech, either buy or build good tools for that purpose. Some of the tools are unnecessary unless you intend to repair a LOT of harps.
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Doug S.
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Flbl
151 posts
Mar 24, 2018
7:36 AM
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Expense is relative, will the tool make the job easier?
Will you really have a use for this tool?
Will you buy something else for less money, just to find that it breaks or can't do the job effectively, was that expensive?
Will it be used on a regular basis, or will it sit in a draw collecting dust?
I work in a field where a person tends to build up an extensive tool collection, so this is not an unusual thought for me, a long time ago I was looking at a tool well made not overly expensive but not cheap, I had the money for it, but I really couldn't think of a need for it, every time i went to the store that carried it I would think I should buy this, and finally I did.
This tool sat in my truck for three years unused, until one day I had a job that only this tool could do, at that moment the tool stopped being expensive and became priceless.
I bought a tool kit from one of the customizers, and have used a few of the tools, now perhaps I could have come up with other methods to do the work I needed, but having a tool that did just what was needed, made the job easier and faster.
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florida-trader
1280 posts
Mar 24, 2018
7:37 AM
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Crawforde said it very well.
Kingley made some very good points.
Ditto dougharps and Flbl.
I will just add a couple of thoughts. I used to do a lot of work with Richard Sleigh so I deliberately chose not to get into the tool making business so as not to compete with him. I don’t know if his tools are the subject of this thread or not, but he’s a good place to start. Kingley is absolutely correct. If you only plan to occasionally work on a few harps here and there, then homemade tools will work just fine. You can buy small screwdrivers at any hardware store. You can make your own reed wrenches out of shim stock or any old piece of metal – assuming you have some tools at your disposal with which to make them. The first time I replaced a reed, I used a 10-penny nail – sharpened the tip to a fine enough point to punch out the rivet and used another 10-penny nail with the tip flattened as a flat punch to drive in the replacement. You can make do with all sorts of homemade tools if you want to. I will tell you that I use a lot of the tools that Richard offers and the more I use them, the more I appreciate the thought that went into their design. He’s been working on harps for about 30+ years and I’m sure after much trial and error, he developed the tools he needed to make his work easier and more efficient. When you start spending a lot of time working on harps – customizing them and repairing them, efficiency becomes a big factor. I’m sure you can say the same thing about Andrew Zajac. He offers tools and I’m sure he put a lot of thought into their design. If you only fix a harp now and then, you can take as much time as you want. When you do it for a living, you have to figure out how to crank out high quality work as quickly as possible – no wasted motion – no short cuts – no sacrifice of quality. Good tools help you do that. In my shop, I have every tool I need within arm’s length so I don’t even have to get up from my chair to do whatever I have to do. My drill press, belt sander, bench grinder, buffing and polishing wheels and wet sink are all literally within 4 or 5 feet of my workbench. So is my shipping station. When I am facing my workbench, it is right behind me. I just swivel my chair 180 degrees, roll about 2 feet and I’m there. My inventory of custom combs and stock harps are also within 5 or 6 feet of my work bench. I have 4 rotory tools set up, each with a different bit, so I don’t have to change multiple bits on just one tool. And there’s more.
I can go into the local grocery store and buy a hamburger patty for $2.00. If I go into a restaurant and order a comparable hamburger, it is likely to cost me $10. Why would I pay $10 for a hamburger when I could get it for $2? Because I have to cook that $2 hamburger and buy a bun, and ketchup, and seasoning, etc. etc. It’s a fair trade. The restaurant does all that stuff for me and I don’t have to worry about it. I’m paying for convenience.
This thread could just as easily be about custom combs or custom harmonicas. Why are they so expensive? It takes time to develop the expertise and guys can’t work for free. In fact, you don’t want them working for next to nothing because all that does is guarantee that they will go out of business. And then who wins? Nobody.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Last Edited by florida-trader on Mar 24, 2018 7:39 AM
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1847
4802 posts
Mar 24, 2018
8:02 AM
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i bought a tool set from richard, one of the tools was a paper clip.
someone at work asked me you paid for that? how much was it? .. it was like
eighty bucks.
to this day they still laugh at me. i did tell them there were other tools like the draw scraper "which i have ruined" that came with it, but they still laugh at the $80.00 paper clip.
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barbequebob
3490 posts
Mar 24, 2018
8:40 AM
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Some tools can be simple and cheap BUT better tool quality as a general rule costs more because unlike the cheap crap coming from China, they will last. The toolkits from most harp manufacturers have two FATAL flaws in them and that's the quality of the screwdrivers and files and they're usually crappy and crappy screwdrivers can shred the slot they go in even if you're real careful not to be stupidly macho with them and cheap files will leave burrs all over the place and stuff from burrs isn't something you want to wind up breathing in at all.
Seydel is more the exception than the rule as to the quality of the files and screwdrivers in their kits.
Some customizers are selling tools that they've made on their own that work better than most anything you'll buy elsewhere. Much of the time, you basically get what you pay for. Unfortunately, as Rod Piazza once said, the average harp player is often too broke or too cheap to get the right shit.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Sundancer
220 posts
Mar 24, 2018
10:58 AM
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1847 - is that $80 paper clip made in the USA?
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1847
4804 posts
Mar 24, 2018
11:33 AM
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it was most likely made in asia however.. he added value by bending it to a very precise angle, then ever so carefully flattening the end with a mallet. I have no idea what happened to it, I can honestly say I miss it.
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Last Edited by 1847 on Mar 24, 2018 11:39 AM
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Flbl
152 posts
Mar 24, 2018
4:57 PM
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Quality cost, but a basic sliver tone Asian made paper clip should be no more than$59.95. Gold tone goes up to $69.95, and for the extra protection of a plastic coated paper clip it's $99.95, your choice of colors.
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Rontana
459 posts
Mar 25, 2018
6:19 AM
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Quality tools are never expensive . . . if you truly need them.
I spent huge amounts of time, back when I was building stringed instruments, using a plain old wood rasp (called a bastard file) to shape necks, heels, headstocks, etc. Finally, frustrated with slow progress, I bought a $60 file (called a "dragon rasp") even though I was certain it was an utter waste of dough.
After using the rasp on one neck, I immediately bought a second (one for coarse work, one for fine). The time it took to shape a neck was half of what it had been, and my carpal tunnelly wrists quit asking for just one more ibuprofen.
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hot4blues
110 posts
Mar 25, 2018
8:15 AM
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Nobody is innocent. I've looked at every company website and there's not one that sells a repair kit for under $100.00. Besides, if you look at what each set offers, you can buy whatever you need from various sources. I honestly believe the kits are so expensive for the same reason buying a coffee at the local convenience store rather than making your own is the same reason harmonica repair kits cost so much - convenience. That with everything matching at your immediate disposal. I mean really. If you fix cars for a living, do you want a dozen combination wrenches from four different manufacturers, or one set where they all look the same from just one company.
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SuperBee
5340 posts
Mar 25, 2018
7:32 PM
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I’ve bought tools from multiple sources. I bought a set from Seydel, and then it was pointed out to me that I could’ve acquired all that stuff more cheaply if I’d sourced it separately. This would’ve required multiple postage charges though, so I’m not sure it would have been quite the saving it appeared at first glance.
That set had me replacing reeds and by the time I’d repaired my 3rd harp I was ahead. After a while, the difference between how much further ahead id have been if I’d shopped for tools separately and made my own where feasible was really negligible when compared to the savings I’d made by repairing my harps.
Since then I’ve purchased tools from both Sleigh and Zajac. I don’t regret a single one of those purchases. I’ve repaired a couple hundred harps using the sleigh rivet jig, and I figure it’s paid for itself well and truly. I’ve benefited from Richard’s experience with various tools and not had to go through my own trial and error process to find the best options.
But mainly, when you’ve spent a couple hundred dollars on tools and used them to generate a few thousand and save yourself a thousand or so, it feels like a win. I don’t begrudge these folks making a return on the investment they’ve made. And in both Sleigh and Zajac cases, the amount they provide to harmonica players in the way of free information is really significant. I’m more than happy to support them.
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florida-trader
1281 posts
Mar 26, 2018
4:58 AM
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Well said SuperBee.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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