Header Graphic
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Bulletini versus Fireball V for acoustic music
Bulletini versus Fireball V for acoustic music
Login  |  Register
Page: 1

Rishió
9 posts
Feb 06, 2018
8:01 AM
I’m debating between the Bulletini and the Audix fireball V, but leaning towards the Fireball for a couple reasons:

1. I’m only interested in playing directly through the PA and not amps to get an acoustic tone. The Fireball is a low impedance Mic, and everywhere I read on the internet says that they produce better sound than High Impedance (longer cable means more noise on high impedance). Seems as though the bulletini was designed to be played through an amp.
2. A low impedance converter would be another thing I’d have to carry on my travels. I wonder how it effects sound quality.
3. The most convincing argument is hearing the musician, Vincent, using the Fireball directly into the PA. Wow!!

https://www.facebook.com/vincent.bucher.9/videos/10156065134654393/

Anyone have any thoughts as to why a Bulletini may be a better choice? I heard a few people say it’s great for an acoustic tone but never heard any samples. I have no interested in distortion/overdrive sounds. I want close to a natural harmonica sound, with maybe a touch of warmth.

What mic do you guys use when you want an acoustic sound?
jbone
2480 posts
Feb 06, 2018
8:05 AM
I pretty much use either an SM57 or SM58. It's what I have to work with. I have read that the Fireball is not a warm sound like a bullet mic etc. Greg will probably weigh in on this when he sees it.

----------


Reverbnation

Facebook

Youtube
Dox
127 posts
Feb 06, 2018
8:12 AM
Standing to your description I never consider the bulletini as a valid option. For your purpose get a fireball/SM58/SM57. Maybe the SM57 can be the better choice for you.
rainman
213 posts
Feb 06, 2018
8:15 AM
Greg's Untimate 57 is a perfect choice. I have the Bullitizer and it works for almost any situation.
dougharps
1716 posts
Feb 06, 2018
8:26 AM
I find that the warm sound of the Ultimate 58 serves my music better than the Audix Fireball, which I also own and used a lot before getting the Ultimate 58. However, the Fireball is still good. The Bulletini is a great mic through an amp. I never tried one to the PA.
----------

Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Feb 06, 2018 8:27 AM
1847
4687 posts
Feb 06, 2018
8:31 AM
IMG_0947

i have two of these... very nice for what you want to use it for. a friend of mine just bought a 58 clone for $30.00 it sounded very nice.

you do not have to spend a great deal of money to get a nice mic. that will sound great.
AppalachiaBlues
125 posts
Feb 06, 2018
9:02 AM
Rishio, I saw Vincent Bucher live at the Utopia club in Paris last summer. He created some fantastic tone, volume, and detail through his Fireball. Of course, he's a damn good player and could probably sound great through any mic.
Dox
128 posts
Feb 06, 2018
9:49 AM
In my opinion there is no "magic gears" under the sound of Bucher in the video suggested. A little touch of reverb through the PA, maybe a little touch of equalization but this type of timbre is the most simple to get out for me. In the case of Bucher there are no mic or PA tricks, is its technique which is awesome.

Plan to buy a Fireball (or SM58/57 as I said) and ten years of lessons, practice, techniques an skills and y'll play with this timbre :D
1847
4688 posts
Feb 06, 2018
10:30 AM
i used one of these saturday, it sounded really nice i was pleasantly surprised. monoprice
Martin
1391 posts
Feb 06, 2018
2:38 PM
@Rishio: It´s good to keep in mind that the qualities of the PA:s can vary. From some you simply can´t get a good sound. Believe me, I´ve tried.
So before people start telling you "It´s all in the player, never in the gear" you could keep that in mind.
Dox
129 posts
Feb 07, 2018
12:11 AM
Martin you are right. But the PA is not a gear that you can buy and carry around as your own stuff, maybe if you are a good pro which play in good places!! For me it's obvious, the final quality may vary, but this type of sound require the mic suggested and nothing else in term of gear...
Martin
1394 posts
Feb 07, 2018
4:39 AM
@Dox: As I might have said in another thread here I´ve been battling a PA recently with an SM57, a vintage Beyerdynamic, an Audix Fireball and an EV PL35. None of them produced the desired warmth and huskiness, but instead a thin screechy treble sound. (And I have at least elementary microphone technique.)

This has happened to me before with cheap PA:s -- but when I used a Beyer ribbon into a quality system, nothing else was needed: a warm, slightly distorted tone (with close cupping) was immediately present.

Of course, this can be achieved with other mics as well, but I thought it just fair to Rishio to point out that the PA is another factor to be considered.
Rishió
10 posts
Feb 07, 2018
6:19 AM
Believe me, I’m practicing as much as I can on my acoustic tone everyday :) I’ve never mic’d before and just got interested in exploring an acoustic amplified tone. I know there are a million variables, but I’m just trying to get the best equipment with what I can control, without spending too much money. I wouldn’t spend more than say $150 on a mic, but I’d be willing to go that high if the quality is a big jump from a $20 mic and it will last. The most important things I am interested in are: good tone, simple, durable, affordable, and light-weight. So far it looks like I have a lot of experimenting to do. I’m not even sure if I want to hold a mic or play it on a stand. Some other examples the type of live sound I am aiming for:

(note: you can copy and paste link if clicking it doesn’t work)

Javanovic
https://youtu.be/P6JXGx5jeS4

Jason Ricci
https://youtu.be/VPiwS7wnfyo

Grant Dermody
https://youtu.be/N4Xuy74X4wc

Barnaby Wallace
https://youtu.be/L3tOFmLAXW0

Dov Hammee
https://youtu.be/U8zphqglbh4

Last Edited by Rishió on Feb 07, 2018 6:45 AM
Dox
132 posts
Feb 07, 2018
6:46 AM
Ok, throws a dice and pick up a SM57, SM58 or a Fireball :D If the weight and confort are important parameters, pick up the fireball and y'll be happy.
rainman
214 posts
Feb 07, 2018
6:53 AM
If your maximum budget is $150 the Bulletini was a strange choice to begin with considering it const $189 + you would need a special connector or cable to use it as well. I've never tried the Fireball but I don't think it is nearly as flexible as the SM57.
jbone
2482 posts
Feb 07, 2018
7:04 AM
When I use an SM57 or other mic to the p.a. I like it on a stand. This affords better hand effects. Some basic rules of thumb which work most of the time: Highs and gain rolled back, add a bit of bass and effects. Each p.a. and setup is different and need tweaking most likely.

For vocals we use SM58 Beta, about $160. Occasionally I hit that with a harp, backed off, but my voice and a harp need pretty much opposite settings. This is why a dedicated mic is necessary for me.
----------


Reverbnation

Facebook

Youtube
Rishió
12 posts
Feb 07, 2018
8:38 AM
well, $150 give or take :) Man, I also don’t get it. Sonny Boy Williamson used one mic for vocals and harp. So did Jason Ricci in the video I posted. They sound great! But I do hear people say you need a separate vocal mic and a separate harp mic. And then every PA is going to give a different sound. Not as straight forward as I thought.
MindTheGap
2495 posts
Feb 07, 2018
8:56 AM
With an SM57 on a stand you can use a specific style call by Winslow I think 'amplified acoustic' which involves cupping the harp and putting a very small opening from your hands on or very near the grill. You can get very strong wah type effects.

Maybe you can do it with these other mics too. It think the 57 is particularly good for this as you get very close to the element.

I would have said that if you don't know what you want, get the SM57. It can be used for all sorts.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 07, 2018 8:58 AM
tomaxe
108 posts
Feb 07, 2018
9:12 AM
Rishió, just to be clear...you want to basically play acoustic style harmonica...just want it louder through a PA?
Then don't buy a Bulletini. Great mic but that's really for amplified Chicago Blues-style distorted harp through a guitar/harmonica amp, not a PA. You could play it through a PA but it's specifically designed for a certain sound that is not really clean. Eliminate that one.
The Fireball will allow you to hold/cup the mic like a Chicago blues guy but you will get a clean clear sound due to the way the mic element is constructed ("proximity effect'). Little to no distortion. Excellent mic, well built.
An SM58 or SM57 are vocal mics that you can hold or play through on a stand. You will get different sounds from it depending on how you hold it and play through a PA, but it will essentially be a clean sound. Yes, if you are just a play-through-the-PA player like Sonny Boy or like Jason Ricci in that clip than you can do both with this mic. They are very versatile and if one day you decide to play through an amp you can buy a HIGH impedence converter and you will get a sound that will be slightly to heavily distorted depending on certain factors with your cupping technique and the type of amp.
I would go for the SM57 as it is the most versatile for what you want to do.The 58 is the same mic but has the ball on the end, not as good for cupping, in my opinion, although some players like it.
dougharps
1717 posts
Feb 07, 2018
9:52 AM
If you didn't read this already, this recent thread appears relevant to your decisions:

Playing through a hot vocal mic

The Fireball V would work fine for you. It has volume control if you want to try cupping, and a clip to put it on a stand. If you are singing into it watch out for plosives when vocalizing directly into it. I find that singing over the top instead of straight into it helps. I prefer an SM58 or SM57, because proximity effect adds warmth when holding it close in a loose cup. The SM58 does not seem as prone to picking up breath sounds when singing.

Toots apparently used a handheld SM58 for jazz chromatic for most of his career, and he reportedly liked the lighter Ultimate 58 with volume control made by Greg. I used my Ultimate 58 in my video playing with the Chickadee Sermon band in the MBH video list thread.

The Ultimate 58 is my favorite mic, but is outside your budget. So if you want/need volume control, the Fireball V is fine. I used one for several years and still have it. If you are using a mic in a stand and/or don't need volume control, I would pick an SM58 or SM57 as solid durable choices within your budget.

I have used a Fireball V as well as SM58 and SM57 to use with harp amps (in addition to other mics). An inline impedance matching transformer allows you to use these low-z mics to amps. I didn't use the Fireball V in my recent EH44 Magnum/Lil' Buddy Demo, but I did demonstrate an Ultimate 58 and an SM57 through a transformer to that amp/speaker "sit-in rig."
----------

Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Feb 07, 2018 9:54 AM
Rishió
13 posts
Feb 07, 2018
11:39 AM
Thanks guys. Looks like I need to add the sm57 & sm58 as possibilities. Greg Heumann did write this to me regarding the bulletini which I found interesting:

“...Just know that the Bulletini is actually a really nice, warm, clean acoustic mic. There are people using it for chromatic, mounted in a stand, who prefer it over more traditional mics like an SM58. The only way for YOU to know is to try one...”

It contradicts what tomaxe said, but Tomaxe is free of bias..
Rishió
16 posts
Feb 07, 2018
11:40 AM
Thanks guys. Looks like I need to add the sm57 & sm58 as possibilities. Greg Heumann did write this to me regarding the bulletini which I found interesting:

“...Just know that the Bulletini is actually a really nice, warm, clean acoustic mic. There are people using it for chromatic, mounted in a stand, who prefer it over more traditional mics like an SM58. The only way for YOU to know is to try one...”

It contradicts what tomaxe said, but Tomaxe is free of bias..
tomaxe
109 posts
Feb 07, 2018
1:35 PM
That IS interesting!
Well, I aint gonna argue with Greg Heumann...lol..he makes the darn thing! So try it out for an acoustic sound...maybe it works...so much for my advice...
Strange, though...It is a high impedance dynamic element, and it's body would seem to be an awkward uni-tasker for a versatile acoustic harp mic. It's meant to be held and cupped and distorts quick when you close down on it and blow. If you move away from it to play "wah wah" style with your hands, on a stand, through a PA, you will very quickly lose volume and perhaps have feedback issue, no?
For a big chromatic, cupped lightly, in a quiet setting, that may make some sense as it's a hot mic with a nice bass response. Hmmm...I'll have to try it through my PA sometime...
I'd still go with an SM57as an all-rounder.....or the Heumann modded Ultimate 57, of course, if you can afford one. Greg's products are world class.
Rishió
17 posts
Feb 07, 2018
8:01 PM
thanks tomaxe. I’m asking him some more questions and out them back up here if he says something significant. Particularly about the impedence issue.
jbone
2487 posts
Feb 07, 2018
8:28 PM
SM57 is a unidirectional mic. Right in front is best response. Designed more for micing amps than vocals but can be used that way. SM58 is an omnidirectional, which will pick up sound over like 120 degrees from center. More for vocals.

My voice is very low, harp frequencies are higher, so my best bet p.a. wise is a vocal mic- SM58- and a harp mic-SM57. I like a 57 on a stand for the above mentioned hand effects.

I don't know how the old guys got by using one mic for everything. SBII is a good example, his voice was pretty low as well. They had more tricks than I do!
----------


Reverbnation

Facebook

Youtube

Last Edited by jbone on Feb 07, 2018 8:30 PM
dougharps
1718 posts
Feb 07, 2018
9:42 PM
The Shure SM58 is a unidirectional cardiod pattern vocal mic with a spherical filter to minimize pop. Look it up.
----------

Doug S.
Harmonicatunes
242 posts
Feb 08, 2018
5:25 PM
I've used the Fireball V for acoustic style harmonica for many years. Hard to beat in my view for this application, nice vocal mic too.

That said, I've just started using the Bulletini for busking. Due to it's small size it fits nicely on to my harmonica rack. I'm looking for a clean sound once again so I'm not using the Rackitt holder which Greg Heumann designed for rack based chicago style harmonica.

The verdict. So far so good. A much nicer clean sound than I'd expect from a bullet style mic.

----------
Tony Eyers
Australia
www.HarmonicaAcademy.com
everyone plays...
Rishió
19 posts
Feb 10, 2018
12:00 AM
Hey Tony,

How does the acoustic of the bulletini sound compare to the Fireball? Cleaner or Muddied? Greg mentioned that the bulletini is really a vocal mic. Have you tried vocals with it?
Dox
134 posts
Feb 10, 2018
2:41 AM
Rishiò, y'll buy no mic in this direction. If you have no possibility to try them, listen a stupid:

throws a dice, if you get 1/2 buy a fireball, if you get 3/4 buy a sm57, if you get 5/6 buy a sm58. This is the same as listen all opinions in the world but a lot faster to buy a mic! These 3 mic are the best choice for an acoustic sound..maybe the bulletini or similar can give you a nice result but isn't the "standard" choice...

Last Edited by Dox on Feb 10, 2018 2:47 AM
Rishió
20 posts
Feb 10, 2018
8:14 AM
Can’t buy right now as I am in the mountains in the other side of the world and won’t be back to the USA till April! Didn’t think that there was any harm in getting other people’s opinions and finding out more before I head back..


Post a Message



(8192 Characters Left)


Modern Blues Harmonica supports

§The Jazz Foundation of America

and

§The Innocence Project

 

 

 

ADAM GUSSOW is an official endorser for HOHNER HARMONICAS