I notice the various topics on how to make ourselves heard over guitars and I can kind of understand the need for big amps for big gigs, but what's with the need to bring in a big amp,just to practice in your living room. Is it like a cross they have to bear or something ?
Somewhere along the way people got the idea they had to 1) have big watts to get good guitar tone and 2) be prepared to play arena gigs. My opinion. Brit invasion and tech advances in general fueled this.
Very early on when I began getting out around Dallas and Denton I saw this wattage/volume obsession and it was difficult for a harp guy to deal with. Aside from running off clientele at a venue, the hearing damage thing is very real with high volume in small/medium, even big rooms. One of my early gigs I put a band together for, it was on a bar patio and we got shut down early because the volume was off the chain from song 1.
Just because you CAN don't mean you SHOULD. ----------
I think the best times I've had listening to live music is in small bars with one or two people playing, where the volume was high enough to hear, but low enough for the bartender to hear my drink order.
If I can feel the beat in my bones 2 hours later, it just doesn't matter who was playing or what was played.
From my personal experience. Big amps go with old guys that haven't grown up yet.
When we were young, all the rock stars had double stacked cabinets the size of a refrigerator. I'm still on the prowel for a tuck and roll Kustom 200 bass amp with 3 15 inch speakers. It made an impression when I was 18, and it still sticks today. I hane NO NEED for it, but I want it.
During my hey day I used a Peavey 300 combo that shook the walls. I bought a friend's Peavey 60 Basic as a favor. I use to hate that amp, but it has been my workhorse for the last 20 years.
After a gig this last Saturday, both guitar players were playing 5 watt amps, and everbody sounded great. Now I'm thinking about a smaller bass amp.
I say it's old habits and not enough money for multiple amps.
I actually think the young guns coming up, are choosing more reasonable size amps.
---------- theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by Jim Rumbaugh on Feb 06, 2018 9:48 AM
I was in a 50's band back in the early 70's (I was playin' boards in that one ) and our youngest guitar player had a 700 watt Kern stack; I would walk over & turn his amp down during tunes occasionally. He tolerated me.
My oldest dearest friend is like this. He’s not currently playing any gigs but has a Twin, 2 Mesa Boogie amps, one of which is so big and powerful he is convinced it’s not working properly because things are supposed to fall of the shelves, it runs 6 x 6L6 tubes and costs a fortune to service. Also has a jcm 800 and a small Deluxe. He lives in a flat. Won’t play gigs less than $400 because he hates having to cart and set up his gear. I love him but he is quite a psycho about this. I think he knows it and embraces the knowledge. He just loves the gear.
I sometimes miss the big rigs and Rock sounds that made me into a sweaty danceing fool! I see these youngersters with their whimpy flatops and whimper alternative tunes and I think, what happened to the Bad Asses. Come back Mr Eisenhower!
On one hand, I want to have enough clean power to be heard, and on the other, I want to have a warm, tubish sound. So multiple amps make sense to me-- I have a Music Man 100 watt 2x12" Twin Reverb knockoff (I am being unkind) that is super loud, but tough to play at low volumes. So it's really only for loud gigs-- I had a Super Champ modified to add a stage or two of gain, it cranks but has the original amp, so it breaks up at moderate volumes--not clean enough to use alone at most gigs. Then I use the Stagemate, Carvin's self contained powered (and battery powered) mini-PA--not always as warm as I would like. If I bring all these amps to a gig, I have no time to set up harp gear! Oh yeah, there is also a Vox solid state Bass practice amp that I am using sometimes, it will probably find a place in the setup--it works pretty good for harp, actually . . . I'm a singer, I don't want anything too loud--but I also don't want to get caught not being loud enough in a band situation, where, as we all know, everyone has to be louder than everybody else . . .
I SAW IT,Cream, Jimmi Hendrix etc.At the SPECTRUM in Philly 50 yrs. ago.though, I also saw Muddy Waters and many blues acts, and they were crankin` Fender Twin`s in clubs. Also James Cotton blowin` through the PA , AS turned up as much as the guitars. ThAT COULDN`T BE HELPED,volume was just begging to be turned up, Led Zepplin 1970 live doing "Ican`t quit you baby" was great.....
Yup some of that stuff was great cuz they were playing big venues. I fell for the "my amp is so big and heavy can you come to my house"...I go there the practice place is in the cellar down a flight of stairs. Huge amp beside a mouldy drumm kit and a couple of bicycles.. think my advice was lift some weights and get strong enough to get yourself out of there. Guy was about 15 yrs younger than me.. I think some just use it as an excuse.. ..another guy 72 yrs old just a few years more than me. We invite him to play some tunes up at the old age place and we get the my amp is to heavy routine. My wife is gives him the wtf look..duh get a smaller amp buddy..
What I don't understand is the old saw " I have to crank it up to get my sound" with a 50-100W amp. Isn't it easier to get in that "sweet spot" with a 15W amp?
I think it's a feedback loop... at one point they played with someone who had a big amp and played too loud, and that damaged their hearing, so now they need a big amp to play loud so they can hear themselves. Thankfully, us harp players never get called up on stage, so our hearing stays perfect! ;)
I was at a show a while back. I was familiar with two of the acts; I'd seen them both at a local park playing shows. The first act was, as always, amazing. It was just her and her guitar and her voice. Second act, which I hadn't heard before turned up a bit. It was a little too loud for the size of the room so I popped in my earplugs and moved back a bit. Third act, a great local singer, had a full band and they turned up so loud that with earplugs in, at the very back of the venue it was painful. I listened to two songs and left. It was a real disappointment.
It's not always the guitar players fault. I'd argue the drum player and the sound guy are just as big if not bigger contributors to the mayhem. With ear fatigue you just can't tell how loud things are and volume creep can wipe out a show. I firmly believe every venue should have a decibel meter and use it regularly. I won't argue what the cutoff should be, but just being aware of the levels at all time is important.
My first band, our guitar player and our bass player both went crazy with amps. I think our bass player had a 400 watt amp. We were practicing in the basement and it was vibrating things off of the shelves all around us.
If its too loud you are too old so the saying goes. Having enjoyed the crazy loud Who at MSG in 79 and other bands like MC5 and Blue Cheer live I am now older and a 5 watt amp guy for harp and a princeton for guitar
you can also take Steve's approach and tell em to chill out and just listen
I myself recently purchased a Laney 15 watt solid state amp from a reputable website. It goes well with my Hartke 25 watt bass amp. I really wanted a Marshall amp. But it was 10 watts at $70.00 before taxes at the local music store. I saw the Laney online. Only five dollars more & I didn't have to pay any taxes, free shipping, & an additional 5 watts. All that was needed was a four day period of waiting for the delivery. I highly recommend them.
I know where there is a big ass T&R Kustom head and cab. Cab is taller then SS Steve's. Has 15 and horns as I recall. White/Ivory. NW Pa if there is intrest.
I was in a band that had two guitarists that each played through a 40W Fender Vibrolux into 4x10" cabinets. They complained my Vox VT30 was too loud. Snicker.
I see a lot of the opposite scenario. The guitar players are cranking Fender Blues Jrs. while the harp player always has to lug out a Bassman with 4-10s. I usually play harp through a 12 watt Supro but I must admit I do like the sound of a nicely dialed Bassman.
If you have an amp "too big* for what you need, buy an attenuator. I use a Weber Minimass 50W on my 30W 4x8" amp and it sounds great. i can push my amp to 12/12 (master) without feedback and get a great tone at a desirable volume. ----------
Last Edited by Throttleskeezer on Feb 13, 2018 10:35 AM
Where is the "Big Ass" line? I'd say a Quad Reverb or Super 6 probably qualifies but what about a Fender Twin? I kinda like to hear people playing their amps rather than everything mic'd through the PA.
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