I don't appreciate too much mayalls, mainly because I don't love, in general, the british blues movement. I have to underline its importance in the modern music and I appreciate its effort and music quality but I don't like as harp player. If someone has some cool link to report maybe I can change my mind...
I love the Room to Move song. A huge inspiration to learn the harp back in the day. We do it now every so often esp when we have a friend do the vocal percussion stuff. Friend is a young Rafsta style guy who is great on that type of stuff. Great song regardlles of what country Mayall is from, some would say.
Last Edited by Spderyak on Jan 29, 2018 2:00 PM
I love his The Turning Point album, though his harp playing doesn't thrill me at this point (though it did when it came out). But I am very fond of Johnny Almond's saxophone on it.
When I first started to play - as in about the first nine months - I dug Mayall. But then I found much better players to focus on.
Room to Move takes its cue from the band's groove from Sonny Boy II's One Way Out and transfers it to harp.The live version he did with the Yardbirds (which Mayall may have heard in person) makes it pretty obvious:
I think anyone who doesn't run out of breath doing the song should get extra credit. Love how he transitions back in with harp. Perhaps unfortunately I have never have heard One way Out. I wouldn't be to shook up if Mayall based his song on it any more than learning whammer jammer was based on Walters Boogie...
Mayall´s development as a harmonica player after some 60+ years of experience with the instrument isn´t particularly impressive. That could be one of the reasons you don´t hear that much about him.
he deserves a lot of credit as a band leader developing talent
At the time he brought attention to the blues and took center stage with a harp He is also a multi instumentalist so harp is not the be all and end all for him
I can’t say for sure, but John Mayall may have been who inspired me to take up the harp. The very first rock concert I ever attended was in 1972, Jacksonville Coliseum, John Mayall (and I guess it would have been The Bluesbreakers at that time), The Edgar Winter Group (featuring their Frankenstein album) and The Allman Brothers Band. That was my freshman year in college. All I know is that shortly have that, I bought my first harmonica. As others have said, he has his place, but there are lots of guys I would rather listen to. ---------- Tom Halchak Blue Moon Harmonicas
Last Edited by florida-trader on Jan 30, 2018 6:42 AM
John Mayall was my "gateway" into blues harmonica. I first bought Turning Point when I was 12 and in turn it lead me to several other albums he recorded. As Goldbrick mentioned, he always had some incredible guitarists in his stable: Clapton, Peter Green , Mick Taylor, Harvey Mandel, and every record was different.
By the time I saw him in 1975, it was his "Jazz/Blues fusion" and Room To Move was in the past. I understand he lives in Bozeman Montana now.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Jan 30, 2018 7:30 AM
Tom - 1972 was way past the Bluesbreakers period. It may have been the tail end of the Mark/Almond unit...(which I saw live in 1970 or so - experiencing this unit live was beyond the sound of any recording, btw).
(also, if you guys enjoyed this particular unit, check out the first Mark/Almond recording made after these 2 guys left Mayall - unbelievable desert island recording!)
I consider him a multi instrumentalist and "Godfather" in a sense of the British Blues scene.
---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jan 30, 2018 10:38 AM
Mayall is a multi instrumentalist in the sense that someone in an office or retail situation is a multi tasker. As they have the ability to do several things at the same time poorly, so Mayall is someone who dabbles on harmonica, guitar, keyboards, having a tentative command on blues basics and not much else. I wouldn't even call him an instrumentalist--dabbler pretty much gets what he does. His penchant for finding tasty and distinct blues guitarist was, no doubt, aimed at fleshing out what otherwise would have been a thin, brittle sound from the blues breakers had he featured himself as featured soloist. Mayall is not an interesting musician. He's hardly a musician at all. ---------- www.ted-burke.com
Mayall has been a very important character for me but I totally get what Ted said above. First saw him in 1981, not sure why he toured here, 81 wasn’t his first visit, and he came back in 82 with mick Taylor and John McVie and Colin Allen, then again in 87 with Trout and Montoya. Most recently in 2011 with Althas and Rzab. I attended all those shows. 82 changed my life. 87 I was ejected by security. 2011 was a sit down theatre affair. I enjoyed the show but missed being able to move. I also reflected that John really wasn’t much of a player and was fairly self indulgent in granting himself very long solos on both keys and harp, which amounted to little more than noodles in both cases. Given the skills of his keys player it seemed kinda strange especially with the keys to hear John twiddling away amateurishly for 5 choruses while a highly accomplished played stood by playing quietly in the background. But, it was John’s name on the poster and the tickets so I guess he could be forgiven for thinking people had paid to hear him. I can’t say I really minded.
Not sure if John likes trout fishing. I feel that I heard that once, as a reason why he used to visit.
Perhaps John is more of that self-made guy with barely a H.S. education that is able to hire excellent workers - some with Ph.D's, to make his company very successful through his leadership and philosophy.
Mayall certainly created a lot of excellent "companies" during his career. ---------- The Iceman
We cant all be musical geniuses I guess-but its pretty ez to be a critic The guy has had a great career, has credited his forbears and encouraged young players Has also lived a healthy lifestyle and continued to tour after many of his peers burned out , choked in a pool of vomit, pushed political drivel or molested kids Lotta people would never have heard blues harp without Mayall
As a kid living in Central New York , I was not exposed to blues at all. I learned to play by listening to Bob Dylan and Neil Young. In the early 70's a friend gave me "Turning Point " as a gift. That was my first exposure to blues harp. It was Mayall that started my blues education. ----------
Even if Mayall has turned gazillions of people to the blues, that does *not* make him one inch more interesting as a musician. (As well as his "clean living" and so on.)
People often have a hard time making this distinction: Mayall´s personal qualities, his entreprenurial skills -- even his famed erotica collection! -- are outside of his musical abilities. John might spend all his spare time saving babies from predators, helping old ladies cross the street and generally staying fit and sober in his old age -- that is still irrelevant from the musical perspective. It has no bearing. A crappy harmonica player is a crappy harmonica player.
And criticizing him for that does *not* entail that I or whoever therefore necessarily must think that I or we are better players. That´s another issue completely.
Room To Move was the song that got me interested in harp.It's well known by people who otherwise don't know s**t about harp. In Mayall's case,the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.He's a mentor to blues and the musicians he hires.Yes,he doesn't excel at any of the instruments he plays. His harp playing doesn't drive me out of the room unlike his British cohort Jagger. He writes a lot of good blues songs.He's still touring at 84! Saw him at Chesapeake Blues Fest 2(?) years ago. It rained like Woodstock minus the drugs and free love.The wind was blowing the stage tarps up and it was raining on him and his keyboard. John ignored it and kept playing.
"Crappy harmonica player? Hardly a musician at all? Seems kinda harsh."
I agree. Those types of criticism may come from folk who focus on the negatives and/or reduce him from his 3D blues lover/player/encourager/entrepeneur to a 2D only look at his basic skills on an instrument.
I agree he is not the most accomplished musician on any of the many instrument he plays, but I also feel that to focus on only this is missing the "gold" contained within....
The Brit invasion brought a lot of blues to me since those lp's were more available in the mid 70's where I lived. Mayall is among those and Room to Move is one that hooked me. True he morphed it from a SBII number, who doesn't do that? You can call him crappy AFTER you do what he's done, how about that? It's true I have not closely followed him for a long time, but his work has its place in my harp history. He has always brought excellent talent together as well.
Side note, You can call Dylan a bad harp player AFTER you replicate what he's done, and understand WHY he's worked out his harp parts the way he has. ----------
When I first picked up the harmonica (early 70's) I bought every Mayall album I could lay my hands on, probably a dozen of them. With the exception of Blues from Laurel Canyon and Jazz/Blues Fusion, I haven't listened to any of them in decades. As far as learning harmonica licks, they played out pretty quickly and there seemed to be a lot of filler on his records. Also, the timbre of his vocals wears on me after awhile. Still, there was a fair amount of good stuff that came out of his career, a number of good songs (some iconic) and certainly providing a platform for a number of excellent musicians. Now you got me feeling all nostalgic. I might have to go through my vinyl and make my own Mayall anthology.
well people have expressed their opinion and I have expressed mine....I saw mayall in concert 2 years ago and I did not hear a "crappy harmonica player" or somebody "not a musician at all"....thats so crazy!!!
Last Edited by groyster1 on Jan 31, 2018 9:23 AM
Watching the video about the story behind Room to Move reminded me of something that happened at that concert so long ago (and Iceman – thanks for the clarification about the Bluesbreakers). During one part of the show, Mayall took an extended harp solo and then he started making rhythmic clicking sounds with is mouth, which were barely audible. There were a lot or people talking in the audience – like they were at a club and the music was in the background – not a concert where you’re supposed to sit and listen. Mayall grew irritated with that and finally told the audience the “Shut the F*#@ up!” Perhaps the only time I ever heard an artist say that to his audience. ---------- Tom Halchak Blue Moon Harmonicas
Last Edited by florida-trader on Jan 31, 2018 9:45 AM
"...never seem to hear anything about john mayalls harp playing on this forum..."
I wouldn't bring him up because I don't perceive him as a harp player as much as "a musician". He has certainly contributed to blues and rock. I appreciate the product created by his bands as much or more than any particular thing he played or did. But I don't think of him as a harp player. The plight of a singer who plays a little on a lot of instruments.
Jeremy Spencer, slide player with Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, made an observation about the difference between true slide players and lead guitarists. Essentially, slide players get a special feel on slide, and some can play lead. Lead guitarists may play (at) slide, but they don't get that same special feeling. Probably not too different than singers or instrumentalists who play (at) harmonica. ---------- BnT
Mr. Mayall deserves credit as a great talent scout and good bandleader. Also, his heart is in the right place for being an advocate and promoter of the blues in the UK and elsewhere. I've listened to the first three Bluesbreakers albums a lot, not so much to hear Mayall but to listen to the fine players in his band. As a musician, John does a decent job of keeping the groove going. As a harmonica player, I consider him not great but not bad either. The problem I've had with him is his singing. I have never considered Mayall a very good vocalist. Some may disagree and that's okay, just not my cup of tea.
no hes certainly not great harp player but he has very strong tempo......and he had clapton,greenie and mick as guitarists in his band......he put on good show in knoxville and had the crowd going very well.....did great job with parchmans farm
I still occasionally play that Bluesbreakers album(1966) which has Eric Clapton on the cover shown reading a Beano comic. John Mayall played some great harp on that album and imo never ever did it again. Why? No idea,but i saw him at a live concert circa 1980 and he seemed to be treating the harp as an afterthought,a toy not to be taken seriously.
Yeah for sure, but in 1980 he was 45. But i get your point as to his later stuff. It was more about his 'attitude' at that 80's concert. But like many people of my generation i owe a debt of gratitude to John and his 'Crusade' for the Blues. I bought a Harmonica and had a ball for many years probably playing what we all now call 'Biker harp'. Being able to play Room to move and Another Man Done Gone got you laid back then.^)
I may have to stop reading these threads...the dismissive attitudes from some (certainly not all) the folks on here are quite discouraging. Really feels like unless we’re talking about Jason Ricci or Sugar Blue, somebody’s gonna say say “meh, that guy’s barely a musician.” A couple weeks ago somebody was trolling with digs at James Cotton. Like...seriously?
Maybe all the naysayers on here can do overblows and play positions 1-12 with fluidity, all while playing chromatic at the same time with their nose. But from where I stand, I look up to Mayall (being a multi-instrumentalist myself), Cotton, Dylan, and, chances, are anybody who winds up on the unofficial MBH “Not Cool” List.
I guess everybody is entitled to their opinion no matter how stupid it is. Mayall, a "dabbler" or "not really a musician." Really? The man produced a gazillion records, played with some of the finest guitarist, introduced blues music to a generation of listeners. I found his records to be original and each one was different and you could follow his musical evolution. And how cool is it that at 84 he is still kicking it.
John Mayall might not do overblows or have the chops that current day harmonicists but he brought his own originality to the instrument that touched many of those who heard him. To dismiss him is a hack is just plain ignorant.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Feb 02, 2018 5:07 AM
@jbone: "You can call him crappy AFTER you do what he's done, how about that?"
No jbone, there is no requirement that I do what Mayall has done in order to earn the right to call him crappy. As per my earlier post. It´s an opinion I have, based on notions of musical skill, and you´re perfectly welcome not to share it - and on grounds of politeness I wouldn´t express it to Mayall´s face. (I also think Mayall is a crappy singer, but this is MBH so I let that one be. OTOH he´s had some really strong musicians in his bands over the years, no question of that; but again, this is MB*H*.)
Mayall´s harmonica articulation is rather sloppy, his tone is thin and he has not spent a whole lot of time developing a good sound through the years: he sounds dry and metallic. Which I dislike -- but you might love it.
It´s strange that this idea is so prevalent, that you must "earn the right" to an opinion by producing something similar to the person you are dismissive of. Think about the ramifications for judgements of, say, architecture, or literary criticism.
If all of MBH was to contain nothing but such dismissals it would not be very interesting, but this is supposed to be an adult group where we should be able to handle some dissension, even when it comes to people who have successfully played our little instrument for decades.
It's ok to post an opinion that you don't like John's harmonica playing. Probably better to say "I don't like John's harmonica playing" than to say "He is a crappy harmonica player".
Also, I don't know about you guys, but a few posters here, when posting their negative views (on John and other folk) seem to add some kind of a pompous, looking down on mojo to their criticism, which I find a bit distasteful in general - like subtly tearing someone down while elevating oneself at the same time.
Now, I know I'm talking about a "feel" I get, which is my personal opinion. No problem if others don't see or feel what I do from some of the negative comments on John. However, being kinda empathetic my whole life, I seem to pick up on stuff like this more than most....
So, we may not be "arguing" about the right to have a negative opinion...perhaps we are debating the way the opinion is expressed..? ---------- The Iceman
Right. It’s one thing to say “so-and-so isn’t my cup of tea” or to have an articulate opinion about *why* so-and-so’s playing doesn’t do it for you. It’s another to posit that so-and-so is “barely a musician at all” or is “crappy.” Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but outright, non-constructive negativity will only result in shutting down conversation. It’s the kind of thing that makes me think “yikes, I’ll never post any of my playing on here...I’d be torn apart!”
I think that the blues (and wider ranging) harmonica community has become so jaded by the virtuosity of a few stellar master harmonica musicians that some players now scorn solid competent playing performed by by fellow members of the larger group of journeyman level harmonica players.
Mastery of esoteric techniques is not a prerequisite to being a solid harmonica performer who entertains audiences. John Mayall successfully entertained many audiences. He is one who popularized our instrument to a wider group of listeners.
John Mayall is not my favorite harp player, but he is good, and I have been entertained by his recorded performances. He is a player who rose to prominence in a certain era, and few harp players have done as well.
There may have been or may currently be players whom you personally evaluate as superior, but it is not necessary to demean a fellow player who achieved success in order to value a current favorite. ----------
My point was mainly that it´s irrelevant to the matter of Mayall´s harp playing that he has been successful, "turned people the the blues" and whatever. That is something people have a hard time understanding.
"Crappy" could be seen as rather harsh, that I admit, but I honestly don´t like his harmonica playing at all. I think grown ups should be able to handle that. The OP asked why Mayall´s name was so rare and a few people hinted that it could be because he isn´t any good.
Generally, when MBH turns into a fan club it gets sort of stupid; this notion that we are obliged to like so and so, and that´s probably a reflection of the harmonicas low standing (a "toy"): we are supposed to feel some loyalty to fellow players. This in itself then contributes to the harmonicas low esteem, since we treat harmonica players with silk gloves. That would certainly not be the case if we were talking violinists etc.
BTW, I don´t rate myself highly when it comes to harmonica playing.
For myself, I stumbled upon Mayall’s music by virtue of hunting for breakout performances by Harvey Mandel and Peter Green. Was pleasantly surprised by Mayall’s playing on A Turning Point. I’m very much a journeyman with every instrument I play, but I do play several at every live show. Mayall’s performance on A Turning Point was very inspiring to me, and an encouragement to those of us who are jacks of all trade but masters of none.
Mayall isn't one of my favorite harmonica players. But he is one of the founders of modern blues harmonica--which is to say, he's an important bridge between blues and jazz in the modern period, and his harp (for better or worse) and bandleading and compositions (for better!) are a part of that.
I was lucky enough to get his album MOVIN' ON early in my own career, and I still think it's a great album.
How about this, Ted? Sounds pretty hip and minimalist to me. I bow to the man who knew how to assemble this band to back him up. That's some serious horn action.
I give Mayall full credit for putting together crackjack bands that have , at times, made it possible for Mayall to release first rate albums. The albums I listen to especially are USA Union featuring the sadly under rated Harvey Mandel on guitar, Larry Taylor on bass and Sugarcane Harris on violin, and , of course, turning point, with the splendid , Desmond-y sax work of Johnny Almond and Jon Mark on acoustic guitar. Mayall's harmonica work was more texture than anything else, save for the nice workout he accomplishes on Room to Move. These were band albums with credible, blues based tunes with jazz used as texture, groove and pacing. Too often, much too often for me, though, Mayall has pushed his harmonica work to the fore front, usually following a hot guitar solo or sultry work out from a reed man, and the effect is like a blowing out a tire when you're cruising at a comfortable rate of speed. It's my view Mayall was playing catch up with what the Butterfield band was doing wit their jazz-rock ventures. What Butterfield and his band did on East West with the Work Song and the long title improv , released in 1966, is so profoundly ahead of its time that I consider Mayall's contribution to the fusing of jazz, blues and rock as a bit less important than you do. It's a matter of taste, I realize, and I'm just stating mine, perhaps obnoxiously so. It may well be an unrealistic expectation of mine for musicians described often enough as "band leaders" to be strong, confident, soloists no less than the musicians they hire. ---------- www.ted-burke.com
The truth is J.M. ,WITH OR WITHOUT anyone like or dislike him,is one of the big names of british blues. He will be talked about for a long time We wont.... And those who dislike J.M. YOU TOO.
Last Edited by nowmon on Feb 04, 2018 3:29 AM
• s John Mayall (Decca) [live, December 1964] • 1966: Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton (Decca) UK No. 6 • 1967: A Hard Road (Decca) UK No. 10 • 1967: Crusade (Decca) UK No. 8 • 1967: The Blues Alone (Ace of Clubs) UK No. 24 • 1968: The Diary of A Band – Volume One (Decca) [live] UK No. 27 • 1968: The Diary of A Band – Volume Two (Decca) [live] UK No. 28 • 1968: Bare Wires (Decca) UK No. 3 • 1968: Blues from Laurel Canyon (Decca) UK No. 33 • 1969: Looking Back (Decca) compilation [1964–1968] UK No.14 • 1969: The Turning Point (Polydor) [live] UK No. 11 • 1970: Empty Rooms (Polydor) [July–October 1969] UK No. 9 • 1970: USA Union (Polydor) UK No. 50 • 1971: Back to the Roots (Polydor, 2LP) UK No. 31 • 1971: Memories (Polydor) • 1971: Thru the Years (Decca) compilation [1964–1968] • 1972: Down The Line (London, 2LP) compilation [1964–1968] second album in this set was the first official release of John Mayall Plays John Mayall in the USA • 1972: Jazz Blues Fusion (Polydor) [live, US, November–December 1971] • 1973: Moving On (Polydor) [studio + live, US, July 1972] • 1973: Ten Years Are Gone (Polydor, 2LP; then 2CD reissue in 2008) [studio + live, New York, 1972] • 1974: The Latest Edition (Polydor) • 1975: New Year, New Band, New Company (Blue Thumb/ABC – One Way) • 1976: Notice To Appear (ABC – One Way) • 1976: A Banquet In Blues (ABC – One Way) • 1977: Lots of People (ABC – One Way) [live, Los Angeles, November 1976] • 1977: A Hard Core Package (ABC – One Way) • 1977: Primal Solos (Decca) [live, UK, 1965 and 1968] • 1978: The Last of The British Blues (ABC – One Way) [live, US] • 1979: Bottom Line (DJM) • 1979: No More Interviews (DJM) • 1980: Road Show Blues (DJM), reissues: • 1982: Roadshow Blues Band • 1995: Why Worry • 1997: [Blues Breaker] • 1998: The Adventures of John Mayall • 2000: Lost And Gone • 2001: Reaching For The Blues • 2006: Godfather of The Blues • 2007: A Big Man • 1985: Return of The Bluesbreakers (AIM [Australia]) [1981 and 1982] • 1985: Behind The Iron Curtain (GNP Crescendo) [live, Hungary], reissue: • 2004: Steppin' Out • 1988: Chicago Line (Entente – Island), reissues: o 1994: Uncle John's Nickel Guitar (Dog 'N' Roll) o 1999: Blues Power (Recall, with live bonus CD: Life In The Jungle – Charly Blues Masterworks, Vol.4 [that was originally released in 1996]) o 2000: Blue For You (Dressed To Kill) o 2000: Blues Breaker (Neon, with two live bonus tracks) • 1988: The Power of The Blues (Entente) [live, Germany, 1987], reissues: o 1992: British Blues (Editions Atlas) o 1993: New Bluesbreakers (The Blues Collection #008) (Orbis) o 2003: Blues Forever (Fuel) • 1988: Archives To Eighties (Polydor) [<-1971] • 1990: A Sense of Place (Island) • 1992: Cross Country Blues (One Way) [1981 and 1984] • 1993: Wake Up Call (Silvertone) UK No. 61 • 1994: The 1982 Reunion Concert (One Way) [live, US] • 1995: Spinning Coin (Silvertone) • 1997: Blues For The Lost Days (Silvertone) • 1999: Padlock On The Blues (Purple Pyramid/Cleopatra; then Eagle in 2002) -with John Lee Hooker • 1999: Rock The Blues Tonight (Indigo, 2CD) [live, Canada, 1970 and 1971] • 1999: Live at The Marquee 1969 (Spitfire; then Eagle in 2002) [live, London] • 1999: The Masters (Spitfire, 2CD; then Eagle in 2002) [live, UK, 1969] • 1999: Live: 1969 (Eagle, 2CD), reissue: o 2004: The Turning Point Soundtrack • 2000: Reaching For The Blues '79–'81 (Purple Pyramid/Cleopatra) • 2001: Along For The Ride (Eagle/Red Ink) • 2002: Stories (Eagle/Red Ink) • 2003: Rolling With The Blues: John Mayall Live...The Second Decade 1972-1982 (Secret-Shakedown, 2CD + interview DVD; then Recall in 2005 but minus the DVD) [live, Germany, 1972–1973, USA, 1980–1982, and Italy, 1982], -note: on most Canadian editions, the verb Rolling has been changed to Running. reissue: o 2006: The Private Collection (Snapper, 2CD) • 2003: 70th Birthday Concert (Eagle, 2CD) [live, Liverpool] • 2005: Road Dogs (Eagle) • 2007: Live at The BBC (Decca) [1965–1967, and 1975] • 2007: In The Palace of The King (Eagle) • 2007: Live from Austin, Tx (New West) [1993] • 2008: Dreaming About The Blues (Blues Boulevard, 2CD) -note: reissues of both Chicago Line and The Power of The Blues • 2009: Tough (Eagle) • 2011: In The Shadow of Legends (Blues Boulevard) [live, New Jersey, 1982] -note: same material as Blues Alive/Jammin' With The Blues Greats DVD • 2014: A Special Life (Forty Below) -note: producer Eric Corne's label • 2015: Blues Alive NYC 1976 (Rockbeat) [live, October 1976] • 2015: Live In 1967 (Forty Below, London clubs) • 2015: Find A Way To Care (Forty Below) • 2016: Live In 1967, Volume 2 (Forty Below, London clubs) • 2016: Live At Jazz Fest 2016 (New Orleans, April 24) (Munck Music) • 2017: Talk About That (Forty Below, recorded Fall 2016)
Last Edited by 1847 on Feb 03, 2018 7:50 AM
Thanks for the tip, Nick, but I own both those records, and fine as they are, they don't change my overall view of Mayall's harmonica playing. I have a solid grasp of what Mayall has done over his career; I pay attention to what he releases because he has excellent bands that liven up his rote compositions.
Last Edited by 