groyster1
3062 posts
Jan 07, 2018
9:21 AM
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it seems to me that overblowing could possibly damage your reeds due over stressing them.....possibly best to have them set up for overblows first
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The Iceman
3432 posts
Jan 07, 2018
10:20 AM
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best for achieving and understanding OB's, for sure.
In my experience, OB do not stress reeds out any more than any other bend - the trick is to not push any bend through it's "floor". Learn where the floor is and place the bend about one foot above it and you will have a lot less damaged reeds due to bending techniques.
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The Iceman
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Dox
77 posts
Jan 07, 2018
10:22 AM
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...all wrong techniques can damage the reeds during time. Bends, too much air pressure and obviously a bad overbend airflow can reduce the reed's life.
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groyster1
3063 posts
Jan 07, 2018
2:57 PM
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6 blow does not bend at all so it would be hard not to go past floor......7 blow does not either.....
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Todd Parrott
1428 posts
Jan 07, 2018
3:22 PM
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But keep in mind, the reed producing the 6 overblow note is the 6 draw reed. I agree with Iceman that overblows don't stress the reeds any more than a regular bend. Also, though the goal is to bend overblows upwards, they can still be bent down a quarter step or so, which could potentially cause the reed (6 draw in this instance) to blow out faster than normal if bending down is something that's done more often.
I don't think I've ever blown out reeds due to overblowing, but I still tend to blow out the usual reeds like 4 blow, 4 draw, 5 draw etc. I suppose any reeds will break at some point over a period of time, even if you don't play hard, but since I don't play nearly as hard I Used to, my harps seem to last a long, long time before needing reed replacements.
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Gnarly
2407 posts
Jan 07, 2018
8:54 PM
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Same here Todd, now that I know how to fix 'em, I don't need to anymore . . .
As far as the OP, I see the same reeds Todd mentions, as well as 7 and 9 blow--these fractured reeds are not caused by overblows!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jan 07, 2018 10:12 PM
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LevelUp
56 posts
Jan 08, 2018
9:24 AM
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I know this sounds simple, but just this:
Don't blow so hard.
With good technique and setup you can overblow at a whisper.
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The Iceman
3434 posts
Jan 08, 2018
10:33 AM
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BarBQue Bob and I have been trying to get you guys to understand - you breathe the harmonica - don't "suck" and "blow". Inhale and exhale. If you need more volume, let equipment do the heavy lifting.
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The Iceman
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ridge
721 posts
Jan 08, 2018
1:38 PM
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It's a noble pursuit to preach finesse playing and breathing through the harmonica, but the reality is many of us are self taught and have developed bad habits over the course of time.
It's not to say one can't break these habits, but that also takes some self-reflection and critical analysis of ones own playing... or a good teacher or mentor.
I sometimes feel that we've become too presumptuous that others will fully understand our written words when dealing with a tradition that was pretty much founded on direct human interaction.
I really enjoy these kinds of topics though. It does present a good opportunity to dispel a myth. I'll echo the consensus that overblow technique doesn't stress reeds any more than typical draw or blow bending.
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Ridge's YouTube
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STME58
2041 posts
Jan 08, 2018
11:41 PM
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I suspect that there may be a correlation between learning to overblow and breaking reads. Just like a person learning a new language will speak louder in a misguided attempt to be understood, when they need to make the right sounds not the wrong ones louder, I belive whenyou don't get that overblow there is a tendency to blow harder to force it to work. It doesn't work, but it may break reeds.
My frequency of breaking reads has gone way down since I am learning to play with much less breath force, and learning I can't make up for poor ovreblow technique by blowing harder. I am using a lot less breath force than I did a few year ago, and yet, on two occasions recently in unamplified jam sessions, I was asked how I get so much volume out of my harmonica. I belive it is learning to tap into resonance.
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florida-trader
1254 posts
Jan 09, 2018
3:55 AM
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In my estimation, there are few different learning curves in play here.
1. There’s learning how to overblow/overdraw.
2. There’s learning how to set up harps to better facilitate OB/OD.
3. And there’s learning how to repair harps when the inevitable happens and a reed breaks.
When I started hanging about on this forum about 7 years ago, I could do none of these. Now, I can do all of them. Of course, I am speaking from my own personal experience, but it seems to me that they go hand in hand. As Ridge has pointed out, it is easy for armchair quarterbacks to sit back and say, “Don’t blow so hard.” While that may be good advice, it could be a difficult habit to break for some. If that is the case, then it behooves that person to learn how to repair harps, or develop a relationship with someone who does.
Having harps that are set up properly will help everything. It makes the OB/OD much easier. You don’t have to muscle the harp to get it to behave, which means you put less stress on the reeds and they won’t break as often. It relaxes you and enables you to do more, with less work. Bends are easier. Overblows and overdraws are easier. You get more volume and better tone. You’re still going to have an occasional busted reed. It comes with the turf, but as you progress through these learning curves, it will happen less and less.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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The Iceman
3435 posts
Jan 09, 2018
4:18 AM
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sez Tom: "As Ridge has pointed out, it is easy for armchair quarterbacks to sit back and say, “Don’t blow so hard.”"
I haven't seen any armchair quarterbacks sitting back and saying "don't blow so hard" here.
Just a few highly qualified instructors or very experienced professionals.
One reason I prefer teaching a rank beginner is that is is easy to start them off with proper technique. Then they accelerate (in technique) and leave those with bad habits in the dust. Learning to bend to exact pitch within 2 to 4 weeks is one example of accelerated learning.
So, if you have bad habits and "blow" and "suck" the harmonica, if you are serious about improving, rethinking and correcting bad habits is definitely a rewarding direction to travel.
In my path towards understanding, I've relearned and corrected my techniques at least 4 times in my life so far, and I don't regret a minute of the time spent.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jan 09, 2018 4:19 AM
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florida-trader
1255 posts
Jan 09, 2018
6:47 AM
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Did not mean to imply that the advice was coming from the peanut gallery. Only that some might consider the oft repeaed advice to, "Don't blow so hard", easier said than done.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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The Iceman
3436 posts
Jan 09, 2018
6:55 AM
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Actually, it is not "don't blow so hard".
It's "don't blow at all - breathe the harmonica".
In my teaching, I've eliminated the word "blow" completely to eliminate subtly reinforcing poor technique.
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The Iceman
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florida-trader
1256 posts
Jan 09, 2018
7:23 AM
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Larry - that has been a consistent theme in your posts for many years. That, and the concept of not creating mental barriers by convicing yourself that something is "difficult" or that it takes years to master. I have personally benefited from adopting that philosophy. Thanks for that.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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The Iceman
3437 posts
Jan 09, 2018
8:47 AM
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and, of course, even the best technique in the world is almost pointless unless you have a responsive instrument - a service provided by Blue Moon Harmonicas!
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The Iceman
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ridge
722 posts
Jan 09, 2018
9:38 AM
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It wasn't my intention to rile anyone with my other post. It was a gentle reminder that the written word just may not get the job done even if you are a prolific teacher in a one on one or group scenario and are fully qualified to speak on the subject.
I would post more frequently here, but a lot of times I question whether my post is contributing anything or if anybody is going to even understand what I'm trying say without misconstruing it.
One cool thing you can try at home is to take the draw plate of a harmonica and place your mouth over the non-reed side of the plate and position your mouth in a pucker over one of the slots. If you breathe in you can sound the draw reed in isolation. You can also play the most perfect overblow when breathing out through that same reed. It does still require proper technique, but you will have no doubt that you're doing it when you do it as the reed is isolated.
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Ridge's YouTube
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LevelUp
58 posts
Jan 09, 2018
10:06 AM
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I really like what Larry is saying and it is consistent with good pedagogy for other wind instruments as well. The verbs we choose are very, very important.
Overblow? No. Don't blow at all. Just Breathe.
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MP
3535 posts
Jan 09, 2018
5:04 PM
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groyster- I've never killed a reed overblowing but I have made them a slight bit out of tune and merely had to tune them up again. I've seen dead 7s from ODs but not very often. Oh, I didn't kill the 7s. Somebody else did it. :-)
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Reasonably priced Reed Replacement and tech support on Hand Made Series Hohner Diatonic Harmonicas.
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Last Edited by MP on Jan 09, 2018 5:05 PM
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