I was looking for a medium tubed amp. At the end I m happy with a custom vht 2x8 which is more tiny than medium but has a sound pressure a lot and sounds good.
In the above post someone has mentioned the fender champion 40. I m interested to know if this one can works really well with the harp and eventually other options not too much expansive (maybe under 500 bucks).
Every time someone mentions solid state, the reply is always "tubes are much better" but I wonder, with all the foot-pedals people use, if anyone can tell the difference. ---------- Andrew. -----------------------------------------
Hi Andrew. I know. In fact, this is not a request about tubed vs solid. I'm looking at solid state for: less weight, more clean sound. I'm using a lot of pedals in effect so I'm not interested to comparison with tube. I'm looking for information about feedback issues and solutions and if, in general, they can sound harp-friendly.
Goldbrick, thanks. I think the fender princeton 65 is a good choice but a little heavy for a solid state amp (around 13Kg if I'm not wrong). The champion 40 is at 8.5Kg which is my target weight (sorry I've not mentioned that in the first post).
I mentioned the Fender Champion 40 and yes I found it to work well with harp. Either with pedals in front, or using it's own models. Although to be fair I was going for a tubey distorted sound. The Champion 100 works too, but is a lot heavier.
These amps have high gain models in, and those are the ones to avoid of course.
I've stopped experimenting with amps for the moment, but if I were I'd try that Quilter Microblock 45 with a speaker cabinet or two. For light weight, portability, volume and versatility.
I don't care what other people do, but for me the idea that I need to spend thousands on a superb amp to amplify my £25 harp harmonica in order to get a good sound? Well, that would tell me I've chosen the wrong instrument! :) Or maybe the money would be better spent on lessons.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 08, 2017 6:58 AM
Nice reflection MindTheGap. About feedback issue do to the high gain preamp model, can be resolved using a mojo pad lone wolf for example? This fix the problem?
Though I am very intrigued by the Quilter Micro Block 45 (which reportedly offers more RMS wattage) I am still successfully using my EH 44 Magnum into a 10" Eminence Lil' Buddy in a small cab as my sit-in amp, using a 585SAV or recently and more often, my Ultimate 58 through a transformer. I have played with Kilborn Alley using this, and they are not a quiet band.
I would like to hear more about clean headroom with the Quilter, as some posts here indicated difficulty getting clean volume.
I made a live recording of a duo gig when I used the EH 44 Magnum with the Ultimate 58. The PA was dead and we made do with my rig and a Loudbox. Here is the recording of Ultimate 58 to Lil' Buddy with chromatic harmonica, no effects, in a large room. The guitar and vocals are in the Loudbox, harp in my rig. The video has no relationship to the sound track:
The solo at 1:51 displays the relatively clean sound of this mic/amp/speaker combination with chromatic harmonica. I had more headroom available before it would become more distorted. The distortion when it sets in is pretty decent for solid state, too.
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Dec 08, 2017 7:19 AM
I've read about EHx magnum. For some reason I'm oriented to a combo solution....but...which is a nice cabinet already assembled that match well with the magnum suitable in europe?
Re EHX magnum, that looks good too, same concept. One little amp, possibly several different cabs for different playing situations.
Dox - re the high gain models, I think the idea is simply to avoid them. The Champions have a default 'clean' model and lower gain ones like Champ. But yes, I suppose in principle you could pad the input if there was something you liked in the death-metal range.
@Dox I don't know what is available in Europe. I have not bought pre-assembled speaker cabs. I put speakers in cheap cabs, sometimes cutting my own baffle board and putting it in the cab of cheap dead combo amps.
The Lil' Buddy is in a cab from a Fender Frontman. I asked a friend who works at a music store if they had any small dead amps for which they would sell me the cab for a little cash. By cutting a baffle board and having no amp in it, I fit a 10" speaker in the Frontman cab to create a really light sit-in amp using the EHX 44 Magnum. It can get pretty loud for its size, often surprising bands. ----------
I have two solid state amps: ZT lunchbox and quilter 101 mini head and love them both. ---------- Konstantin Kolesnichenko(Ukraine) http://kolesnichenko-harmonica.com/
Dox, I meant ZT lunchbox 6.5" combo (I have the cab too). It's amazingly good - very loud, tube-like tone and easy to carry. Currently I'm playing with 101 mini head (because it fit's my pedalboard and have amazing sound too) with 3 different cabs.
I have two tube combo amps, but also 3 different tube PA heads: 20 watt, 26 watt, and 35 watt. The tube PA heads each have 4, 8, and 16 ohm outputs. I like having cabs and heads so I can choose what sound I want for a gig. I have the Lil' Buddy 10" cab, 2 12" cabs, and a 10"/12" cab. I can mix and match speakers and amps as I choose.
The ZT lunchbox is another small solid state combo that has interested me. Light weight gear has gained importance over the years. ----------
Seriously, if you're considering solid state amps you should look at modeling amps. Amps like the Vox VT-40 offer a wide range of amp models, effects, etc, which give you great flexibility in tailoring your sound.
Garry, I tend to do not consider the modeling amp because the modeling part is in my 2000 bucks pedalboard! I prefer a high quality combo of cab+head solution. I m pretty sure to go on quilter micro head 101 + a cab....
but is a "strange" cab...closed back (we can open the back also...), dual vented for more bass response...it's an high tech cab for guitar but I don't know if he can react well with harp...
Last Edited by Dox on Dec 09, 2017 3:16 AM
Frontliner is surely a terrific cab, but In my country I have no a lot of choice...is a miracle which I can have the head. I have to go on some different cab...
Well if your looking for a "cleaner sound" and concerned about feedback and simplicity you should look into a Fishman Loudbox there made for acoustic instruments have feedback control knob on the amp and sound great with acoustic instruments and vocals. They have phantom power plus a pad button for really hot mics. You can put any sort pedal in front of it no problem and plenty loud for stage use. I've played harp through mine but I like tube driven OD so I have 2 amps one for Mandolin the LB and a tube amp for harp.
Dox,my 101 mini head is prone to feedback. It's because it's adapted to the guitar signal and gain (it's like high gain tubes). However if you use volume pot on some of your pedals or Mojo pad this is not an issue. I use volume pot on my t-rex reptile delay. I've never had feedback issue with ZT lunchbox
dougharps, thank you so much!
I love the idea of frontliner but it's surprisingly expensive and shipping cost + taxes to my country will be very high. ---------- Konstantin Kolesnichenko(Ukraine) http://kolesnichenko-harmonica.com/
wheel, what do you mean with "if you use volume pot"? You set the delay volume very low? In case of this configuration anyway I think to use the mojo...
I find it interesting to read about the weights of amplifiers.
The main weight I guess is in the speaker, the heat-radiating fins, the cabinet and the power supply, but a lot of ceramic is being used nowadays, and the fins can be aluminium alloy.
Problem is, if an amplifier is too light it will move about and sound quality will be affected. Spikes for your carpet or floor will stop some of it (my floorstanders have spikes for feet), but if the cabinet is light enough, maybe it could even blow over - you'll have to weigh it down with bricks! ---------- Andrew. -----------------------------------------
@dox I had a quilter micro block 45 but on sold it to a (very happy) guitarist. The problem i had with it was that the'gain' seems to be intrinsically tied in with the volume.So to get volume you have to wind the gain up as well. Not a problem if you are playing at a lowish level but there was no way i could get it anywhere near it full output rating without feedback,which defeated the purpose of having a small lightweight but powerful amp.
Andrew, re weight - I thought the same that the cab needs to be heavy for some acoustic reason. Sort of makes sense intuitively. And it used to be that all powerful speakers were big and heavy. Especially bass amps.
I remember my Dad talking about Hi-Fi speakers with sandbags in to keep them pinned to the floor and improve the sound in some way.
But I'm not sure these things apply any more, having tried some modern amps. A friend has a Fender Rumble, and it's as light as anything but produces a very bassy note. Our little PA powered speakers have Class-D amps, and also very light and small but 200W RMS each.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 10, 2017 1:48 AM
@mindthegap, yes the cabinet would be the last consideration of all (ceramic in the speakers and power supply transformer) - if the cabinet material is too thin it will vibrate (either removing some of the sound-energy or converting it to ugly sound, so it's acoustic, as you say). Or maybe the cabinets will be ceramic, lol. I hope it's non-breakable ceramic. I assume the best currrent material is still chipboard. The future is usually some kind of plastic or carbon material.
"I remember my Dad talking about Hi-Fi speakers with sandbags in to keep them pinned to the floor and improve the sound in some way." Yeah - if you put wooden speakers on a slidey floor, they will literally move about by momentum and air pressure, and there will be reduced bass response. My speakers were supplied with rubber feet for hard floors and lethal steel spikes for carpets. ---------- Andrew. -----------------------------------------
Last Edited by Andrew on Dec 10, 2017 5:25 AM
Hi, yes the Hi-Fi cab are heavy and are heavy from a long long time :D. I had, in the time, some Hi-Fi cab (my dad also was an Hi-Fi addicted and had some pair of cab for 20.000$ (a single pair)!!). But Hi-Fi is a different matter than our applications. Live application do not require Hi-Fi characteristics and they aren't appreciables too: a Hi-Fi cab works great if is in a controlled environment with good acoustic properties. In a live situation, outdoor or in a badass pub, has no sense to speak about Hi-Fi. So a lightweight cab is a good choice for its transportable properties and the sound is not affected too related to the situation. Obviously there is a down limit, we can't make a 4x8 under 10Kg...at least for now...
(I'd just like to say that my speakers cost £400, in case anyone thinks I'm a millionaire!) ---------- Andrew. -----------------------------------------
But...going in topic...the solid state solution right now are:
Quilter head (mini or pro) paired with a cab: I'm not able to understand which commercial cab can works fine (frontliners 2x8 is a good choice but not available in my country). In any case w'll have to adopt some feedback killer (mybe my palmer pdi09 with 15/30db attenuator will suite well the job).
Quilter microblock or Ehx magnum: same as above.
zt launchbox: nice but a little tiny for a band application.
I know it's your choice and that's fine, I bet the Quilter things are great. But it's a shame everyone goes straight for these and bypasses the modelling amps. Hobbyists like me would benefit from seeing these as a valid option, with the understanding they aren't necessarily the best, but not bad.
so, the main question is: which cab? I appreciate those guys which made a DIY cabs but I have no time, no instruments, no knowledge to make a good job.
MindTheGap, I do not consider the modeling amp because I think I have a lot of modeling option in my pedalboard...equalizer, delay, reverb, od, octaver of various nature, etc...but, in general we can add a Vox VT40 to the list, others?
Last Edited by Dox on Dec 10, 2017 8:54 AM
Yes I saw that Dox, not aiming at you, you've got a practical choice to make. Just in general.
Just to say though that when I say 'modelling' I'm not interested in the onboard effects - it's the amp voicing. Even the clean channel on the Champion is a voiced (modelled) sound. A guitarist I play with also has a fancy pedalboard, and just uses the amp on 'clean' as a nicely voiced, loudish, light, inexpensive amp.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 10, 2017 9:03 AM
I've tried that and although it definitely works and is also light, cheap and loud, it does sound a bit stark. Same with a keyboard amp. Again, I think it's the nice voicing on a guitar amp which makes it sound musical. I guess that's why the Magnum-type amp + cab is attractive.
Adam's trick of a micing a little amp and putting that through a powered speaker, that's good.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 10, 2017 11:01 AM
A Peavey Bandit. They are inexpensive, easy to find, clean sounding, reliable and they take pedals well. If you don't overpay for them, you can offload them to a guitarist for darn near the price you paid for it. 65 watts and 1x12 worth of fun.
If you need more power, upgrade to the Peavey Special 130. It's all of the above, but louder.
Solid State. Hmm..I don't know where to get one now-a-days but I used to own a Pignose 30/60. It's a 1/12. It is still alive and lives w/ MBH member MojoKane. Rick Estrin played it in series w/ my Champ 12 at a gig we opened for Little Charlie and the Nitecats. He made it sing. We both used those amps that nite and both played Kevin MacGowans Crystal Ball JT-30s. Estrins had the VC at the tip end of the mic.
I do have a small lunch box sized solid state PA for harp. Actually, it may be smaller than a lunch box. It did one thing because the mic was hard-wired to the amp. MojoKane removed the old crystal stick mic when I broke it and installed a 1/4 jack. Now you can play guitar through it too. It's sooooo loud I have to use a Huemann volume control and turn the amp to 0 volume. (even w/ my weakest crystal mic. I prefer my CRs through though. It is super loud and dirty and I have no idea who made it. I wish I did. It looks very early 1960s. ---------- Reasonably priced Reed Replacement and tech support on Hand Made Series Hohner Diatonic Harmonicas.
'Making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time. Click MP for more info. Aloha Mark .
@Dox ..if you like to use pedals forget the quilter amps(see above comment by me). Get an VOX AC 50 Clean mini amp...it has virtually no gain ,it just what it says on the box..50 Watts of clean power. Add flavour to your heart's content via your pedal board.(The amp will actually fit on your board too) Run it into a nice speaker cab..endless possibilities.... The LiL buddy is a great speaker,go to a local cabinetmaker and get him to cut a baffle for you..the rest of it is just a matter of making a box.
Ok, now I m a bit confused. Indigo, yes you speak about feedback problems but using pedals we mitigate/eliminate the problem as wheel user say...why you don't find quilter friendly for pedals?
Powered Speaker with a pedal board. I know, I'm repeating myself. The only reply on that was it sounds"stark". Not sure what that means but I expect it could be managed with the pedal board.
It's not mine but I go through a single Carvin powered speaker that has 4 channels and some effects. We control our sound and monitor from stage and there's just one line out to the house PA. EQ and level the house and it's done. One line out to the board as a strategy is one of the coolest things ever. SIMPLE. The Carvin does a good job for amplification and mixing. Nothing special though. I like special. Our own pedal boards model the signal and our real sound. I've thought a lot about getting my own powered speaker. They'd be a lot easier to check out than amps given the availability of them. It's a PA question really and for the money I like the sound of Yamaha (crispy mids). QSC can't be denied. I've been trying to talk my duo into a RCF array PA system but RCF also make powered speakers. Awesome reviews for RCF. I pretty much have my pedal board down so clearing that variable would help a lot going in to try a powered speaker. I don't know how I'd decide if I wasn't completely confident about that part first. Simple board: Exotic EP-LW Octave(for feedback/pre-amp, usually no effect)-LW Delay-Carbon Copy Delay. That's it. I was using a 57 but just started using one of Greg Heumanns new elements in a JT shell with VC. Last night I got an envelope filter (Maxon AF-9) to do Jerry funk riffs. Haven't tried it yet.
Last Edited by Littoral on Dec 12, 2017 6:28 AM
