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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
advice on speaker build needed.
advice on speaker build needed.
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indigo
408 posts
Nov 08, 2017
7:06 PM
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I wrote on an earlier thread about how i was building a speaker cab as part of a new rig setup.
I am using a 10" rajun cajun and a 12" cannabis rex.(wired parallel).
Dimensions are Ht28"(67cm) depth 10"(25cm) and Width 14"(36cm).So it is a tight fit for the speakers inside.(I was trying to keep the weight down.)
It is open backed.
I think i might have stuffed up 'cos it doesn't sound very good to be honest.Least not as good as it should given the speakers i used.
Any ideas on what would be the best dimensions to build to given these two speakers.What would you build?
(I use pine for cabinets)
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LSB
295 posts
Nov 08, 2017
7:42 PM
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Can you describe in what way the current cabinet doesn’t sound good with those speakers? Have you used those two speakers paired in another cabinet before? The amp sounds better through other cabinets? What sort of sound are you looking for?
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LSB
296 posts
Nov 09, 2017
1:29 PM
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I’m always surprised when people choose or recommend the Cannabis Rex for harp, as it really doesn’t seem a good match, unless perhaps you are going for a non-Chicago clean sound.
The CR (according to Eminence) is meant to be a relatively clean speaker with slow break-up, and to my ear it lacks the bite required to be a great harp speaker when playing cupped. In many ways, it’s the opposite sound from the Ragin Cajun, which is another reason the pairing doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe the combination does work for some people in the real world? I don’t know, just wondering if the speaker pairing is the problem rather than the cabinet. Or perhaps the speaker combination isn’t right for the cabinet material, as a pine cabinet is going to have less bite than the something harder denser, and your 12” speaker lacks bite as well.
What I can offer from first hand experience is that the Ragin Cajun pairs very well with an Eminence The Governor. Sonically they are well matched, and you can see this looking at the Eminence sonic profile pages.
I have The Governor/Ragin Cajun mounted in a large combo amp nearly identical to the specs you posted: 28” H x 22” W x 10” deep. The actual speaker area of the combo cabinet is about 17” x 19”, give or take. The cabinet is, unfortunately for my back, not pine, but The Governor/Ragin Cajun speaker combination sounds killer in the Birch cabinet, and I don’t believe it would sound less good in a pine cabinet, just a little different, and a whole lot lighter.
Anyway, point being mainly that since I have a 10” + 12”, including the RC, in what sounds like a nearly identical size cabinet, and it sounds great, perhaps there’s reason to think the cabinet dimensions are not the reason you aren’t getting the sound you want.
Just a thought. Sorry for the long post, hope something in there was helpful.
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indigo
409 posts
Nov 09, 2017
3:18 PM
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Thanks LSB.What you say makes sense.Plenty to think about there.
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BnT
117 posts
Nov 11, 2017
1:25 AM
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Cabinet dimensions and material sound fine though I'd suggest a partially closed back. A short quiz:
1. What sound are you trying for - Chicago blues, British, swamp music?
2. Are these speakers the best choice to achieve the desired redults?
3. Had you heard these speakers individually and liked both or are you building a cabinet to house two available speakers hoping it sounds like what you have in mind?
4. Does your amp pair well with these speakers?
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BnT
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indigo
410 posts
Nov 11, 2017
2:16 PM
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@BnT
Great questions.
1)chicago
2)Well i thought so given the comments made about them here and elsewhere.
3) only via the net,never in a live situation.And yes I thought that if both speakers are usually quoted as being good for harp two of them in a cab should be great.(probably a stupid assumption in hindsight)
4) It is a clean Vox MV50 (a 'pedal' amp)50W.I was basically aiming for a portable PA system.The drive and a bit of dirt is a Harp break,Boss GE7,and a L/W delay pedal.(various mikes)
It can get very loud at the 50W into 4ohms.But the speakers just don't seem to have any break up and lack,i don't know how to describe it any better,warmth,depth?
Which lead me to the conclusion it might just be that i have put the speakers into a too small a cabinet.
Trying out a partially closed back seems like a relatively easy thing to do so i will be trying that out for sure.
Other than that it is no great loss as the cab didn't cost much to build.
Thanks for the reply much appreciated.
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LSB
298 posts
Nov 11, 2017
3:10 PM
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Forgot to mention that my cabinet is also open backed, and powered by a 45 watt head, so the similarities continue.
Unfortunately, when people on-line make speaker recommendations for harp, you have no idea how many side by side comparisons they’ve done with other same size speakers. What they have may sound good to them, even better than what they had previously, but that doesn’t mean other speakers wouldn’t be their choice if they’d had a chance to A/B them before buying.
You may have heard that Dale at Megatone amplifiers built a wall full of cabinets to house various speakers in order be able to A/B (well A to Z really) various speakers with an amp to see what sounds best. For harp, the 12” they believe gives the best sound based on true side by side comparisons is The Governor, which they paired with the Ragin Cajun in their 10/12 combos and cabs until recently. I believe they may now be using the Eminence RF10C instead of the RC, to go with the Governor.
Also, David Barrett has a 2x12 cabinet with The Governor speakers that he has stated multiple times over the years he loves.
I don’t know what harp players of note are playing the Rex.
I realize I probably sound like one of those “you gotta play my gear cause it’s the best” guys, but that’s honestly not where I’m coming from: I think your cabinet is probably fine and would hate to see you have to rebuild only to find it’s the speakers. I’m also not trying to say that I think, or know, the Governor is the best 12” speaker out there, I can only say that I, and some (significantly) more noteable folks than myself can confirm that the Governor sounds very good for harp, both alone and paired with the Cajun. Maybe it’s worth picking up a used Governor for $50 before doing another cabinet build?
Also, the speakers you currently have installed, are they broken in, or brand new? You might like them better after they have 40-50 hrs on them, if they are new.
Last Edited by LSB on Nov 11, 2017 5:51 PM
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indigo
411 posts
Nov 12, 2017
3:17 PM
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I first heard the rex played by Nic Clarke through Rick Davis' amp at their regular jam that Rick runs.(in Denver?)And a couple other reviews.
I live in New Zealand and speakers are all imported so the cost is high eg the rex and rajin set me back near 500$.
I could on sell the Rex and only drop maybe 50$ on it so not a problem really to replace with the Govenor.
But first off i am going away for a couple of days so am going to leave my stereo connected up to the Vox and put a CD on repeat while away,that should break 'em in.
They certainly haven't had anywhere that amount of use so hopefully the break in idea may help.
Thanks again
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dougharps
1608 posts
Nov 12, 2017
4:23 PM
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I like the C.R. - with some amp and mic combinations and not others. It has more high end than the Lil Buddy 10". If your amp has good lows and really breaks up, then you could sound good in a dirty harp sound through a C.R. Otherwise, the C.R. will sound fairly clean unless it is driven loud and hard. In a cab with 2 speakers it would take a lot.
Since I like a warm and cleaner sound that breaks up when I lean into it, it works for me as a single 12". If you want lots of dirt all the time, the amp will have to do the job, not the C.R.
Oh, by the way: there is not just one Chicago harp sound!
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Doug S.
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indigo
412 posts
Nov 12, 2017
5:32 PM
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@Doug
Yeah i know but i like them all ;=)
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