LevelUp
30 posts
Sep 25, 2017
6:27 AM
|
Sleigh noted the potential of self-leveling epoxy (the kind used on bar tables) as a material to put on the front of a comb to ensure a slick surface.
So I tried it on a MB and a SP20.
I expected the MB to be more comfortable, but had no idea the difference would be so drastic. It is perfect and I highly recommend it.
It is even better on the SP20. I consider SP20 to be the most comfortable Hohner harp. Put this epoxy on it and man it is like a different instrument. More comfortable, more slick. I can't recommend it highly enough.
|
arzajac
1842 posts
Sep 25, 2017
9:24 AM
|
I use a food-safe product that does the same thing. It makes the holes seem/feel wider.
I really like keeping the stock ABS SP20 comb because it will flex just enough to act as a gasket and not too much to be a tone-killer. You get great response and sound (not too bright!) and comfort and aesthetics (provided like like shiny black). I don't think you can beat that!
Sugar Cain uses yet a different product on his SP20 combs (They are quite colorful) and they really look nice for folks who like that sort of thing.
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
Last Edited by arzajac on Sep 25, 2017 9:25 AM
|
LevelUp
32 posts
Sep 26, 2017
1:42 AM
|
I was debating with myself if I should put the stuff on the combs of yours that I bought from Rons. I'd wager that it would work fine. Have you tried it on your dark combs yet?
I agree about SP20 combs. I have a bunch and airtightness doesn't seem to be an issue. I've not tried putting MB plates on them, but the reverse (SP20 on a MB) creates a nice sound as well.
I'm not familiar with Sugar Cain, but I am curious if airtightness on a SP20 (or other ABS harp) can be improved.
|
florida-trader
1197 posts
Sep 26, 2017
4:09 AM
|
I have been using “Aristocrat Liquid Glass” from Delvie’s Plastics for years. It is simple to use. Two-part resin/hardener, one-to-one ratio. It takes about a day to set up so it gives you plenty of time to work with it. It mixes up thick enough so that when you paint it on the tip of the tines it will stay put and not run. You can paint it on thin to make a smooth shine or put a droplet on the tip and create a beautiful, round, crystal clear, perfectly smooth tip. It is very easy to work with. It is inexpensive. A little goes a long way and one kit will last you a long time.
http://www.delviesplastics.com/p/8oz_Polymer.html
----------
Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Sep 26, 2017 4:10 AM
|
arzajac
1843 posts
Sep 26, 2017
4:50 AM
|
LevelUp: Performance-wise, there is nothing wrong with the stock ABS comb. The trick to getting more performance out of recessed-type harps is to make sure the blow and draw plates are perfectly flat. I offer the F-Tool to help you straighten reed plates.
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
|
LevelUp
33 posts
Sep 26, 2017
7:42 PM
|
I do like Sp20 combs, especially for keys b to e. Lower key sp20 are a bit muddy.
F tool is on my shopping list. I just made a punch set for reed replacement to build a few spare harps out of my stash.
One day I need to buy a custom harp to see how the work compares to my own.
|
Tom585
53 posts
Sep 26, 2017
8:09 PM
|
Can you describe the process of applying the coating to the harp, please? Thanks.
|
MindTheGap
2361 posts
Sep 27, 2017
2:21 AM
|
It looks great, but is it safe? I think that's a reasonable question to ask. Epoxy may be stable and generally non-toxic, but it's not obvious that means its ok to put in your mouth for prolonged periods. Even with 'food safe' things it's not clear. E.g. you get chopping boards that are both food-safe and anti-bacterial. Is the test to emulate licking a chopping board for four hours?
It could be safe, now is the opportunity to say. Not just with what you reckon, but with hard information.
"Plasticine, mmmmm, non-toxic" (Homer Simpson)
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 27, 2017 2:25 AM
|
arzajac
1844 posts
Sep 27, 2017
4:42 AM
|
MindTheGap: You are correct, it could be safe but some companies are more enthusiastic about putting it in your mouth.
My inquiry about epoxy:
Hello,
Is this product food-safe? Can I use it on musical instruments which will be in contact with the mouth?
Thanks!
Andrew
---------------
Hi Andrew,
EnviroTex Lite is approved for incidental food contact.
Regards,
(redacted)
V.P. NPD
Environmental Tech Inc.
----------
Thanks ---,
Incidental contact seems to imply limited contact - "smallest amount possible".
Is envirotex lite appropriate for a harmonica which will have abundant contact (many hours per day for years) with the inside of the mouth?
Thanks,
Andrew
----------
Hi Andrew,
Once EnviroTex Lite is cured, the product is considered an inert material. If you have any concerns, then I would not recommend it.
Regards,
-----
-----
Here's a different product:
Hello,
Is ---- food safe? Can I safely use it on musical instruments that will be in contact with the mouth?
Thanks!
-----------
Andrew
Absolutely fine.
Regards
AFM Tech Team
----------------
The former product has a few warnings in their Material Safety Data Sheet. But, it could be fine after it's cured.
The latter product has absolutely nothing of concern in its Material Safety Data Sheet. And it's low-VOC so I won't get cancer working with the stuff over time.
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
Last Edited by arzajac on Sep 27, 2017 4:44 AM
|
MindTheGap
2362 posts
Sep 27, 2017
5:02 AM
|
arzajac - that's good work. I'd expect equivocal answers from commercial companies, so to get something definitive like the 2nd one is a surprise. And yes, there's two issues: one for the person working with the raw material, one for the person playing it.
I guess the best thing would be a material that has been designed and tested with 'in the mouth' use in mind. I'm thinking of what they use now for filling teeth.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Sep 27, 2017 5:04 AM
|
LevelUp
34 posts
Sep 27, 2017
6:57 AM
|
Excellent work there Andrew. I'll have to follow suit to find this food-safe stuff. The stuff I tried on my 2 harps has a lengthy MSDS.
I never considered the MSDS for harmonica components. I wonder how ABS plastics fare (BPA content?)
The two combs of yours that I bought were from Rockin' Rons, what would you charge to put your self-leveling material on dark combs?
|
arzajac
1845 posts
Sep 27, 2017
7:52 AM
|
LevelUp, I can only offer warranty service. If there is any issue with the combs you bought, I am happy to offer warranty service on them - they should last a lifetime.
Regrets, I can't offer any other kind of service (it would probably not be worth it anyway if you consider two-way shipping and so forth...)
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
Last Edited by arzajac on Sep 27, 2017 7:53 AM
|
LevelUp
35 posts
Sep 27, 2017
7:57 AM
|
Hi Andrew,
Actually I meant on the next combs that I buy from you. My plan is to eventually have a full set of 12.
|
arzajac
1846 posts
Sep 27, 2017
8:38 AM
|
Oh! Well just contact me through my website. Thanks!
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
|
Philosofy
850 posts
Sep 27, 2017
3:38 PM
|
Some things about epoxies: they usually cure using Bis Phenol A, or BPA. Have you noticed all the plastic things these days saying "BPA FREE!"? There's no regulations against BPA yet, but they are coming. Also, self leveling epoxy flows pretty easily. If you coat the ends of the comb teeth, I would let it dry with the teeth pointing up. Otherwise you will get drips on the ends.
|
Roverharp
61 posts
Sep 29, 2017
8:29 PM
|
Will butcher's block oil serve the same purpose?
I already use that to seal wooden combs.
|
florida-trader
1202 posts
Oct 02, 2017
11:03 AM
|
Roverharp – Butcherblock Oil and Self-leveling Epoxy are not at all the same. They would be used for entirely different purposes and in mostly different situations. Butcherblock Oil has long been used to seal wood combs, particularly the unsealed Marine Band pear wood combs. The oil is absorbed by the wood and will not dry out or evaporate. This limits the ability of the wood to absorb water, or moisture from the player’s breath. Butcherblock Oil will not, in and of itself, change the contours or smoothness of the comb because it is designed to soak into the wood and not sit on top or outside the wood.
In the examples shown above, the Self-leveling Epoxy is used to build up the surface on which it is applied. In the case of the Special 20 combs that are shown, you can clearly see that the comb with the epoxy is glossier and has smoother, more rounded look to it. It is a great look if you ask me. And bear in mind that the Special 20 comb is made out of ABS Plastic which is impervious to moisture. If you applied Butcherblock Oil to an ABS Plastic comb it would not penetrate the plastic and would simply rub off after minimal use. In my case, I use a product that is sold as Liquid Glass, which is probably just a fancy name for epoxy and I do use it on the tips of Marine Band combs. It does a wonderful job of smoothing out the rough surface of the comb and providing a silky smooth playing surface for your lips and tongue. So, it can be used on wood. However, I would not use both Butcherblock Oil AND Liquid Glass. The oil would prevent the epoxy from adhering to the wood. For what it is worth, if I want to seal a pear wood Marine Band comb, I use Shellac, which is an all-natural, non-toxic when cured, sealant. And it won’t prevent the epoxy from adhering to the wood. If your mission is to achieve a nice smooth playing surface AND use the Butcherblock Oil, you would accomplish this by fine sanding and perhaps even shaping of the tips of the tines, then applying the oil. The oil is not going to build up on the surface of the comb (like the epoxy does) not change the texture or shape of the comb.
Hope this helps.
----------
Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
|
Roverharp
62 posts
Jun 17, 2018
12:20 PM
|
When using liquid glass on an MB or other sandwich style harp do you apply it with reed plates attached and let it bleed onto the front edge of the reed plates?
I would think that makes for the most comfort and airtightness but make it impossible to disassemble the harp.
Or, just on the comb tines?
|
florida-trader
1319 posts
Jun 17, 2018
1:26 PM
|
Definitely with the reed plates off the comb. It is easy to work with. It is thick enough that it pretty much stays where you put it. If I get a little sloppy, I wipe of the excess with my finger before setting it aside to cure. If a little gets on the flat side of the comb it is super easy to lightly flat sand and make it flat.
----------
Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
|
