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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Reed length and harp pitch
Reed length and harp pitch
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LevelUp
12 posts
Sep 03, 2017
5:45 PM
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Should reed plate slots be different lengths on each harp?
The Marine Band, Golden Melody, and Special 20 reportedly have two standard reed slot lengths: long and short. Long is for harps C and below, short slot is for D and above.
I assume they only use two so that they only have to order two sizes. This may also be so that machine tools do not need to be set up for a wider range of reed lengths. Honestly it works well enough...
Or does it? Recent advancements on the harp, specifically as regards playing the diatonic chromatically, create new demands for playability and uncharted waters are still being explored (thinking of Brendan Power and other customizers). Would there be advantages to having reed slots that are "ideal" for each key of harp?
Granted there are so many variables that this one seems low on the list (after airtightness, reed curvature, reed gap, etc...). I am curious though, what advantages could be had by reed slots that were customized to the key of the harp?
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SuperBee
4922 posts
Sep 03, 2017
7:40 PM
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If you had a standard reed size for each note, to cover standard range G to F# you need 48 different individual reeds.
Currently Hohner make 95 different reeds to cover that range.
Just in the 'handmade' harps.
Those harps use 2 reedplate templates.
The MS harps I think use 3 templates
Seydel use 1 template.
Suzuki seem to use 2 templates but not for sorting the keys. Maybe that's not correct for manji/olive, but promaster etc seen the same across the range.
If you let the reed size drive the slot, so that each key harp had a different reedplate, I think you would make lots of headaches for yourself if trying to operate a high volume mass production factor
You would need to maintain inventory of 12 different reedplates just for that standard range, and you would need to stamp them each out with their own stamp.
Production line and inventory just became rather more complex, despite the fact you sell far more A C and D harps than anything else. You probably sell more of those harps than the other 9 keys put together.
If you could produce harps cheaply on demand, low scale production, maybe you could do it. But that's quite an investment in either time of plant. And the thing will still sound like a whistle I betcha.
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LevelUp
15 posts
Sep 04, 2017
5:14 AM
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Yes, I do appreciate that it would be a manufacturing nightmare. And production companies decided it was not worth it. My question is more towards "if this was done, would it produce gains in playability and/or the capabilities of the instrument? Regardless of cost.
I dug back and it looks like this issue has been considered, with the concluding opinion that it might matter for very high notes but otherwise does not. However, that discussion was on the length of the comb slots. I'm curious about reed slots.
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SuperBee
4924 posts
Sep 04, 2017
6:01 AM
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Perhaps it's significant that all the manufacturers have chosen different reed dimensions?
Seydel, in their 1847 and session series harps, and I think the soloist and favourite lines too, use the same template for every key, even Low tunings, both steel and brass.
These are a different size than Hohner use in either template for the marine band/progressive harps.
Hohner use 3 different templates for MS harps, some of which are very close but not quite the same as tombo use for the lee Oscar harps, which are another example of same template for all keys.
Hohner use a different template again for the 364/365 harps, which I think match up with some of their chromatics. I think Hohner have a different template for some chromatic harps too; it's a while since I checked.
Suzuki have at least 2 templates but not as regards keys, afaik. Actually they have a 3rd template for the Folkmaster but that's kind of a different story.
Again as far as I know, all these manufacturers are using different sized reeds. I've used lee Oscar reeds to repair ms harps and also in a 365, but I had to cut them down a little.
I've also retuned reeds up to a whole step. I think Greg Jones regularly tunes reeds down as much as a whole step and reports no problem.
I did measure some Harrison reeds once and I think they may be close to a Seydel size but too long ago now.
The Brazilian manufacturer Had 4 templates I think.
Anyway, you'd think there might be some agreement among manufacturers if the length and width was critical.
Accordions use much larger reeds but of course don't have to be diaphragmatically powered.
It's been noted that the short reeds are harder to control in a bending situation but that's really about all I can think of that relates specifically to reed dimensions and performance
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LevelUp
16 posts
Sep 04, 2017
7:10 AM
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In terms of instrument advancement and evolution, this is very similar to the situation for woodwind instruments in the medieval and baroque period. Instruments were non-standard at first. Once the instruments moved towards a standard, the parts go through a similar process of gradual standardization.
Indeed, everyone is using different reed dimensions. I wonder if there is a reason outside of making sure people can't swap reeds easily?
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SuperBee
4925 posts
Sep 04, 2017
7:15 AM
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Even the same manufactures. I think it's possibly about existing plant and location. And in some cases probably about inventory
If Hohner and Seydel didn't want us to retrofit reeds, they could stop supplying them. I might be a less loyal customer then. Not sure. I eschew Suzuki largely because of the reed supply, but also because I've never found a Suzuki harp I really like.
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nacoran
9597 posts
Sep 04, 2017
1:57 PM
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It's not just length, width, height, it's also thickness along the length... it might be in the archives, or you might be able to find it with the forum search... Germanharmonicist once had a post (I think he'd visited Hohner) about how the thickness of the reed changes along the length. And then you have different materials, and the profile of the reed to consider.
Just on the material front you have a whole bunch of options, bronze-phosphor, brass, bell brass, steel... Magnus used plastic
I've wondered about some more modern materials, like some of the memory or liquid metals. But of course, if there is an 'optimal' size it would probably vary with each instrument. Thinner (in terms of thickness, not side to side) can actually be more durable than thicker reeds, but they don't sound as good... I think you'd have at least three variables to worry about- sound (which is very subjective), durability (which can be subjective based on your playing style- some metals won't worry below a certain degree of arc, but may have different qualities when they go past that arc) and controllability (which might or might not be subjective). Oh, and manufacturability/cost!
I know how they are cut based on their milling is supposed to be an issue. I think Harrison played around with that, and cryo treating,...
Where the real market might be is in offering options. A company that could offer long slot, wide, extra thick, titanium reeds, but could also offer bell brass short slot reeds, all in any tuning you want, and do that at a competitive price,... I think when you get down to it it has a lot to do with preferences rather than absolutes.
Or maybe a company that could make replacement reeds for any model ever made...
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Nate
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