I haven't been around much or online at all really. I've been practicing a hell of a lot. I went back to the beginning...started over pretty much like I said I would do in my last posts. So I've been inching my way forward and sometimes using songs to work on my playing. I'm strange in my ways so it's tough. I begin to look at tabs and my brain gets whacked out. So I stop and just play by what I think the sounds are (also based on what I may have seen on the tab) and it works better for me. I feel more comfortable playing by ear and feel, then checking the tab here and there to make sure I'm headed in the right direction. Then I "add" my own thing. So I looked at "Georgia on My Mind" and only got through the first line." The line: "Georgia...Georgia..The whole day through" then as usual shut it off and did my own "ear" thing. So I recorded it and this is what I've got. I'm still just beginning this (started yesterday) so I have a long long way to go, but I thought I'd show how I work. Hopefully I am improving though, I've been practicing a lot and just this song since yesterday I went over the first line hundreds of times I think. I don't like the bend at the start and can do the song without it but most tabs show the bend. I've heard really good versions without it though. And the good versions with it?...meh. I can hear the bend and don't really like it when I "hear" techniques.
Anyway, what I did was follow the vocal lines in my head and "guess" where to get the sounds on the harp as I go. After a while of practice I'll begin to check tabs to see how to improve it. But right now in this video this is all made up on the spot right now. It's messy I know, but it's only how I begin to learn..."my way. Hopefully it's better than last month!
I also included a video of improv to a backing track of "Stormy Monday." This is all just improv over the track. Really tuff going because of no vocals. Wayyyyy too much playing. I don't have that much in me! Not happy with this one. Ok...be gentle. I'm still learning (teaching myself). But give it to me straight.
P.S. I have no idea why the video cut short at the end.
IMO and in the long run, mixing a solid melody with adding my own thing does a disservice to both. The short term upside is that it gets the song done, in a way.
If you want to mix a bit of both, try to tell a story like Mickey Raphael does in the example below. btw, one could do a lot worse than studying Willie Nelson's choice of notes and phrasing.
Maybe I explained myself wrong. It was a long post so maybe it was confusing. This isn't my rendition or version of this song (Georgia) it is only something I chose to use as part of my practice on learning how to play. I'm still learning and I often like to take songs and rather than practice only scales and techniques separately, I often practice them in a song. Sort of like rather than working on the heavy bag or speed bag all day once in awhile get in the ring and apply what you're learning in an actual fight. I wasn't trying to copy the song. Thats what I did here. I was practicing playing and technique while playing along. I didn't learn the song I just made it up as I went along. I want to practice getting comfortable moving around the harp.
So I wasn't doing a cover. I was only looking for comment, critique on my level of playing; if it's getting better or not or if it really sounds bad. I have no access to anyone to help me or critique me so my only option is to come here to see if I'm doing ok. On somethings I feel it sounds horrible while on other things I feel my playing sounds ok but I may be totally off on both counts. I have no way of knowing. So I posted my "practice." Not a video of a song cover in hopes that I might get an idea of how I'm sounding overall.
But as far as interpretations I do prefer cover songs when people/bands do their own thing with a classic song rather than copying note for note the original. If I want the original I'll go buy the original CD. But I'm a long way off from doing my own thing in an actual cover although that would be the way I'd go. Even when I hear someone do a cover I often wonder why they'd choose to copy a song note for note. That's been done in the original. I want to hear what a musician or singer can do with "their version." Sort of like Butterfield. Joe Cocker is a great example. Right now I'm only trying to see how my playing is coming along. Techniques, licks etc. I found this really cool Tee shirt and I can't wear it if I can't play well. lol. Just kidding. But I might (a real "maybe") have an opportunity to sit in with a piano player for a song and also a band in a couple of months. Maybe one song...improv style. But I won't if I'm really not ready and/or that bad.
If you are indeed practicing learning how to play, then do the melody of Georgia as the melody of Georgia. You will learn a lot more about how to play and how to play music this way than what you are doing now. ---------- The Iceman
Maybe that was my mistake. I could have ( or should have) picked a generic blues backing track found everywhere on youtube. But because I chose 2 tracks that are well known melodies....Georgia and Stormy Monday... it forces a comparison. I was just using a blues backing track and playing along on both tunes to get an opinion of my current playing compared to last month. If someone said "you're playing is coming along, it sounds good." I would be grateful but smart enough to know that it isn't really "good." Maybe just beginnerish good. But that's ok. If someone said it sucked then that too is fine. Then at least I know that anything I might think is good is only myself fooling myself...lol. But again, I learn something. That's all I'm trying to do at this point. See how I'm doing. That's what I was looking for. Assessment.
Unfortunately this forum isn't like typical forums It's old and outdated so there aren't separate sections maybe one for gear and another for general music talk another for samples of playing for critique etc.
But I guess my mistake was in the choice of backing tracks. I should have chose 2 regular 12 bar blues no name tracks. I picked these because the vocal lines give me ideas for licks. I will learn Georgia correctly eventually, but right now it was just a backing track to display my current level after a relatively short time of playing and try to get an idea from listeners if I'm coming along or not. But to be honest. I think when I try to learn it properly now it will be easier since I played around with it. I kind of know where the sounds are coming from...and aren't. I'll keep trying and thanks again Iceman. I appreciate it.
Tommy, I think you misunderstand what iceman is saying.
Not that I would put words in his mouth, but...
You will learn more by practicing a song note for note than you will learn by endlessly riffing your same tired approach.
Learning melodies is a fantastic way to learn your instrument and give your brain the ability to call up those notes when you want them.
You will not get better unless you learn how to play music better. Currently your timing and intonation have issues. Issues that would be solved if you learned the full structure of a song.
I always suggest that one of your best lessons is to learn a song all the way through...with vocals.
While you may never sing (which I know you do), you learn the proper timing of playing with a singer, as well as how the instrumental notes fit in the time and intonation required to play the song. (Also when not to play).
You can keep riffing away, but I think you are getting good advice from iceman.
Kingobad and the iceman are encouraging you to learn the melody...which I encourage as well, because that forces you to maneuver to what the song dictates, whereas noodling with a song will not improve your skill--as it will mainly to teach you to do what you already know, thus ingrainines in the phrase. In music, timing is really, really important. So figure out what guide notes you'd like to focus on, and work on hitting those at the right time.
Or, play along with a full song (not a backtrack), and fill the spaces. This will teach you rhythm and anticipation.
Thanks guys. Maybe my approach has been wrong. But I have gone backward in the last few weeks going back to re-learning things. I've unfortunately spent way too long learning to play the instrument rather than play the music. I've been trying to find songs to learn straight through but it has been difficult as that was never how I viewed blues harp playing. At least for me.
I'm not into melodies or songs per se. I don't even like listening to non blues songs played on harp. Georgia may be a bit different because I have a relationship with that song due to a certain piano player my wife and I see every once and awhile that I sing with. But, my personal idea of blues harp playing...for me...has always been soloing. Just kind of knowing the song enough to follow and then being able to do fills and then hit a solo. Like being called out of a crowd "hey Tommy! Got your harp with ya?" Jump up and jam. So that's how I've practiced.
I guess for the sake of learning I may have to learn complete songs at least for experience. It seems like that's the advice here so I'll have to look into doing that. As much as I don't want to play "songs." lol. It's 12 bar Blues! There have been times at a Piano bar I've been asked to sing a blues tune and the piano player...not being a blues player...doesn't know any songs. So I tell him to just play a blues progression. From there I sing anything and it fits. Help Me...Redhouse...whatever. That's how I view my harp playing also except it would be even less since it's not vocals so there'd be less playing. Thanks guys. I'll have to keep working at it.
Oh, and I guess, judging by the carefully navigated responses my 2 videos must be really bad. One is actually public on my youtube channel so I should take that down right away...lol. (this is kind of embarrassing...he he)
don't worry about removing videos....the are merely a snapshot of where you are now...you posted here asking for feedback. we are all trying to tell you the best way to improve in our opinions.
I'm an effective teacher and have spent years finding the short cut to the "top of the mountain". If you want to take the long and winding road, you'll eventually get there, too, but it will take a LOT longer doing it your way. ---------- The Iceman
Tommy, It's up to you how comfortable you are with what you've posted for public consumption. if you're not by all means take 'em down. But, I will say this, I think you're being way too hard on yourself. If I had walked past you busking that second video (the improve one), I'd have tossed something in the tip jar. It sounded cool. I dug it. Remember, the level of critique you'll often hear on here is way more severe than that of the general public. You've got NOTHING to be embarrassed about.
Regarding progress, I can't comment because I'm not following you closely enough. You may need to drop a dollar or two to an in person teacher to give you that kind of feedback, though I'm sure a number of people here will be more than happy to offer their "opinion" solicited or otherwise.
Rock on, brother.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Aug 31, 2017 6:13 AM
I understand Iceman, thanks. I'm a bit difficult and my story and ways would be too much for text. I'd have to speak to someone personally for an hour! I'm a tough nut set in my ways. I question everything and then question the answers. I have trouble with multiple choice tests because if there are answers A, B and C I always have a "D" answer that isn't on the test! But again, that would be too long for text.
I never really went to school only completing grade school (8th grade). I was out on the streets (Bronx N.Y.). I have no clue about math, can't do long division or fractions yet (my way) I can figure out the tip in my head at a restaurant faster than my wife using her calculator, and she works in a bank!. How? I couldn't explain it. It's all in my head...my way. My "street way." In my 50's I went for a test to get my diploma (GED). When I went to collect my diploma the faculty was stopping me in he halls everywhere amazed at the high score I got saying they never see such high scores. I learned all of this through life experience; not the conventional way. While taking a class I was asked "do you really need this?" I'm no genius but I think I have done ok doing it my way. I also wrote and published a 180 page book last year and edited it myself. No schooling! So after living the life I led and then having the successes I've had, I kind of set myself up for a stubbornness that drives my wife nuts as well as those I used to work with. As it did vocal instructor also but he got used to it. lol.
But I am smart enough to know that although I am strange and set in my ways, that there is a right way. Even though my "wrong way" kind of worked in life (for me). I guess I forced it. I have some teaching experience. I taught fighters for many years. I used physics and science of body mechanics a lot. So I understand your advice (and others') and will make the best of it fighting against my instincts and strange ways. Ha ha.
I'll have to somehow circumvent my natural tendencies/instincts.
Practice, practice...."proper" practice."
EDIT: Thanks Honkin I really appreciate that and that response makes me feel a bit more at ease and better about the whole thing. It kind of ties the whole thread together somehow. It actually makes me look forward to my new path more. Sort of like maybe I'm making headway but just need to work more and in a better way/method. ---------- Tommy
