My 5 W tube amp has some upsides (it gives out pretty much volume in view of is size) but one thing that I dislike about it is that it sounds harsh and "metallic". Sorry to be so un-specific but that´s the best way I can describe it. If I use the "technically incorrect" set up (extensively debated in another tread), SM57-Harp Octave-EQ-delay, it gets a little better; if I use a bullet mic it ges a bit dirtier, but more trebly and slightly harsher.
The amp is called "Tweed-Tone" here in Sweden and I believe it comes from the same Chinese factory that makes the Memphis Mini (also debated here), but I don´t know for certain. From what I understand the Memphis Mini has a line-out function, but not so on mine.
I wonder, apart from upgrading to a bigger better (more expensive!) amp, is there any way to adress this issue? I´ve tried with various pedals (Harp Attack etc) but no joy so far. The tubes, so I´m informed, are exchanged from the originals to something more "harp friendly" -- but I don´t know the specifics.
I happened to hear myself on a recording from a recent gig and I realised that something´s gotta change.
That sounds very mysterious. You mentioned a change of tubes for the amp. Are they OEM approved? Maybe try going back to the originals and see what happens.
Harsh and metallic. That's a pretty accurate description of what I hear from most harp rigs with small low wattage amps. To my ear, it's not a very "musical" sound, and lacks warmth. For decades I have been perplexed by why so manny harp players think that sounds cool. Of course, tastes vary.
But, first of all, there is no set up that is "incorrect". If the equipment gets the sound you are after, it's right for you. Personally, I would recommend a larger amp--at least 15 watts, and a 10" speaker.
BUT, there Is one item of equipment I'm currently using that may or may not help you moderate the harsh and mettalic tone you are complaining about. For years, my primary mic has been a 545 Ultimate which is very similar to your SM57 and is a terrific harp mic. But lately, for playing into amps, I have been using an EV PL-35 which is a drum mic, with a thick midrange, basically clean timbre, extremely powerful proximity effect and HUGE bottom end. It's very inexpensive and you can easily unscrew and remove the mounting bracket it comes with to make it easy to cup. I use a Blows Me Away VC with mine.
One reason I like it is it gives me a big sound that comes out UNDER the frequecies of the guitars even though I am playing through guitar amps. And the strong proximity effect allows me to vary my sound by adjusting my mic grip. ( The 545 and SM57 also have strong proximity effect, but not as strong as this EV).
Anyway, this mic may well deepen and fatten your tone to an extent that it no longer sounds harsh and mettalic. It typically sells on line for $79 US but can be found for $69 US. I love mine. Just a suggestion.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 21, 2017 8:26 AM
I have no idea. The TIMBRE is a little deeper and lower even if the guitar and harp are playing the same note in the same octave. I don't know what the technical term is--overtones? Undertones? I dunno. But I am referring to the sonic character of the note, not the fundamental frequency.
You know, it's like what happens when you adjust tone controls on your amp or sliders on an equalizer. The character of the tone changes, not the fundamental frequency of the note being played.
So, whatever frequencies are going on in addition to the fundamental seem to sound lower and do not seem to be fighting for the same sonic "space" as the guitar.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 21, 2017 10:03 AM
@hotforblues: The tube change was made before purchase, in the store, thus sort of directing the amp to harmonica players. I really don´t know to what extent they affect the sound, but the guy who did it (we´ve had some contact) seems reasonably knowledgable in these matters -- as opposed to me, who don´t even know what "OEM approved" means ... (I´m absolutely hopeless when it comes to gear, sadly.)
@hvyj: Sure, tastes vary. I´m with you when it comes to harsh and metallic and really don´t get it when I hear a lot of guys rocking out with that sound -- except when in one band that I play with we do "Ain´t nobody´s business if I do" and I use an E harp (high) in 1st pos. Then I can get it to sound a bit like an electric guitar, when you´re howling high up on the E-string and I blow hard with a strong vibrato and ... well I like that. But otherwise, no. I bought this amp because it was inexpensive and had good volume power and not completely inadequate when it came to sound.
Many thanks for your concrete suggestion. I will certainly check that EV PL35 out. My microphone guru has recommended that I look for a 635 A or PL 5 of that make, but either they can´t be found or they are horribly expensive. This one seems reasonable.
have you tried playing straight thru the amp? when i use pedals its sounds fine or when others use pedals i think that sounds great, then i listen to the tape and i can hear the somewhat harsh overtones. if it is a solid state device,then pretty much no way around it.
what can sound great live with a beer in your hand, is completely different with headphones and a joint.
@1847: Yes, certainly I´ve played clean through the amp. The pedals are for boosting the tone (the EQ), reducing feedback (Harp Octave) and delay (obvious).
As I said above, it´s a tube amp, but as hvyj points out, many small tube amps with that somewhat metallic sound are appreciated by not so few players, probably because they often can produce an "authentic" raspiness.
Champ-style guitar amps often sound harsh, especially if they're played too loud. Also, you don't say what brand of eq and delay you're using or how you have them set; they may be adding harshness. Digital delays in particular often sound harsh. Finally, the Lone Wolf Harp Octave is *designed* to add harshness to bigger amps, i.e., to make them rasp like a Champ-type amp.
My advice:
1. Save the Harp Octave for a bigger amp. 2. Get a mellower delay, or learn to live without. 3. Don't use your EQ to boost any frequencies. Cut the the higher frequencies. 4. Most importantly, turn the amp down until the harshness goes away. Mic it if you need more volume, or buy a bigger amp.
Last Edited by timeistight on Aug 22, 2017 1:48 PM
@timeistight: Thank you for suggestions. Didn´t know that about the HO. A bit surprised, since it was recommended to me for this particular amp -- and it certainly helps with the feedback.
The delay is a Mooer. I normally set it very low, and the harshness appears not to be affected, but the tone gets slightly bigger with it.
The EQ is cutting the higher frequencies -- but I´m also boosting the lower, and maybe that´s unwise. However, when I turn it on and off, I perceive very little difference in the harshness department. Maybe it can be fine-tuned and I will work on it.
Yeah, a bigger amp is on the wish list. Or I might try to work solely with pedals. First I think I will give that mic that hvyj mentions a shot -- it´s the less expensive alternative to be explored.
Re:EQ--the conventional wisdom of cutting the highs and boosting the lows is over simplified and over rated. The frequency to boost to fatten harp tone Is 240-250 (low mids). Pumping the lows arbitrarily can muddy your tone and have other undesirable effects. In general, rolling off some highs usually isn't a bad idea, and if you can find the freq that is causing feedback you can notch it out. BUT, if your EQ isn't really doing anything to help your sound, why keep in the effects chain at all?
The problem with EQs (and compressors) is that if you you don't have them dialed in correctly, they can hurt your sound more than they will help. Don't get me wrong--both can be valuable but only if you adjust them absolutely right.
Mooer makes decent low budget pedals. I agree with timeistight on the Harp Octave pedal, BUT, if is somehow helping control FB it is serving a valuable function.
This may sound strange coming from someone who regularly gigs with an 8 pedal board, but if a pedal is not doing something specific that helps your sound, don't keep it in the chain. Sometimes I use a smaller board and sometimes I use no board. My point? HAVE A REASON for using each piece of equipment you use. Don't use some piece of equipment just because someone thinks it's something you are supposed to use or it is made for harp or you've seen others use it. By all means, try whatever catches your interest. But before you incorporate it into your rig, HAVE A SPECIFIC REASON why it helps your sound. And if it does, don't worry if no other harp player is using one. If it sounds good for what you are using it for, it is good.
Let us know how the PL-35 works out for you.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 28, 2017 11:49 AM
Thanks again hvyj. The EQ has an effect or I would have shed it (as you very reasonably suggest). It boosts the bottom region of the amp. Not in a sensational way, but there´s an extra push that comes when it´s turned on.
I´m by no means a gear-head -- I spend my money on beer, books and harmonicas -- and I´m entirely with you on being discriminating with various appliances.
This Friday I will play with the HO and the delay into the amp (maybe the EQ will have to go for reasons of space); then another, cleaner, mic with a Joyo American Sound, a Mooer chorus and a TC Hall of Fame reverb into the PA. Hopefully there will be some recording.
My favorite harsh and metallic True Story: A couple of years ago this older lady who was a blues jam regular with some previous gigging experience and who was a decent vocalist somehow got a New Years Eve gig at a venue my band would play at occasionally. Not having a regular band, she put one together from musicians she met at jams, including a harp player who prided himself on the ratty distorted "Chicago Blues" tone he got from his rig.
As it was told to me the New Years Eve gig did not go well. Low draw, and the people that did show up left relatively early and the music was supposedly not that good.
Anyway, as I was speaking with the manager of that venue a few weeks later trying to book a gig, he started talking about the New Years Eve debacle, and asked me if I knew the harmonica player. I did. Then the manager started to tell me that it sounded like his amp was broken. I didn't say anything, but I knew exactly what he was talking about.
I've posted this story on MBH previously and the consensus was that the manager was unsophisticated and ignorant. I dunno. I always had thought this harp player's rig sounded like shit, but I knew it wasn't because anything was broken. But, to my ear, it was very harsh and unmusical. I guess the manager figured nobody would be deliberately trying to sound like that, so he concluded it must have been because of broken equipment. FWIW
I hear you, and you got a point that some types of distortion just sound downright bad. But there´s a knowledge factor to be considered: A few years ago I was out busking with a friend and I had dialled in a dirty sound on my teeny little Roland, since we were going to do a blues number. Not fantastic, but reasonably convincing blues grittiness for busking in downtown Gothenburg. Then a little old lady in a wheelchair rolled up to me and informed me that my "radio was broken". "Well, thank you kindly, mam, but as a matter of fact, there are some instances where this is the sought after sound in the radio." She looked at me like I was an idiot and rolled away, shaking her head. I simply said to my partner, "Let´s do another bluesy thing. A little louder this time."
i have been corresponding with a sound engineer, i explained we sometimes use a sm 57 his response was... you must be kidding.
he then suggested a mic similar to the one heavy mentioned. i tried to explain that most of us use a crystal mic and we need a mic that has less fidelity not more.
Martin - I think you probably need to reset your expectations, if your amp is a clone or a modified version of a tweed Champ.
1. Tweed Champs are not very clean sounding amps. They almost begin distorting before you turn them on.
2. If you are using the Harp Octave pedal to fight feedback, that means that you are pushing the amp into distortion. A Champ-like amp is usually in a small cabinet with a small 8" speaker. That equates to a boxy sound.
3. If you are playing the above combination outdoors at the amp's volume limit, it's going to sound small and likely harsh. Have you ever heard a street musician play an amp outdoors and have the tone be as pleasing as being in a decent sounding music room? I haven't.
4. If you have the Harp Octave pedal turned on, it is going to to add to the distortion. That pedal will make a big amp sound like a small amp. When used with a small amp, it will make the amp sound even Champier. Not usually a good thing, unless you like that sound.
5. EQ pedals most of the time don't help a player's tone. Delay pedals usually add some degree of depth to a player's sound. So, if the tone you are getting isn't good, ditch all of the pedals and plug the mic straight into the amp.
6. A Shure SM57 will pretty faithfully reproduce sound, but it can be pushed into distortion. An EV635A is also a fairly clean sounding mic. Many players find the bass response of the 635A to be lacking. If you want or need bass response, a better option would be the RE10.
7. Are you using an impedance matching transformer? If not, it's a good idea to get one.
8. Depending on the preamp tube in that amp, you can cut down on the gain a bit by subbing a 12AY7 for the 12AX7. I would not recommend going to a lower gain tube than that.
9. If you expect a bigger sound, you'll need to get a bigger amp, but if you are playing on the street you're going to have to go way bigger than you would if playing in a club.
10. Plugging a pedal like a Harp Attack or Harp Break into a small amp and expecting a big round, big amp sound out of a tiny amp is going to be a source of frustration and disappointment.
11. You should be nicer to old ladies in wheelchairs.
All of the above assumes that you've got solid technique. If your technique isn't good, a Champ will sound pretty harsh, bright and metallic. If a person isn't sounding good through a Champ, something is wrong. They are a pretty proven setup.
Last Edited by Joe_L on Aug 24, 2017 10:38 AM
@Joe L: Thank you. Your knowledge is vast indeed. But I must clarify some points. (And let me first say, politeness is my middle name. Even an ignorant bitch like that wheelborne sourpuss was treated with more gentleness than she deserved.)
If my amp is a Champ clone is something I don´t know. Perhaps it is.
I like and want distortion in this amp. It is mainly used for blues material. It is distortion of the "harsh and metallic" type that I don´t like.
The busking situation I mentioned was with another amp entirely, a small Roland Mobile. The 5 Watt tube amp is not for busking. (Not battery powered.)
The EQ pedal: As I said above, I´ve tried with and without it. That´s easy. (I may be stupid but not a complete idiot.) And the EQ gives the amp more power in the lower register. Therefore I use it, but, as I also say above, I might be in need of some self-improvement in the tweaking department.
I´ve used an SM 57 copy as well as a hi-z bullet mic without an impedance matching transformer (there´s an extensive recent tread on that), and the difference is that the SM57 sounds slightly better, louder, less harsh. Noticeable but not dramatic. (I tend to use the bullet mic anyway since it has a volume control.)
The HO is because I need to get loud with the amp, and it reduces feedback. It also adds some distortion, but I´n not too wild about that, kind of muddy and indistinct.
I *tried* plugging a Harp Attack (that one I own!) into the amp for, say, 30 seconds. Useless. Just an experiment.
As for the technique issue ... Well, maybe I´m in need of some self-improvement even there -- if this is a Champ clone and I don´t think I sound particularly good, if that is "proven".
Once again, thanks for the input.
Last Edited by Martin on Aug 24, 2017 4:01 PM
If it still does it with different mics straight into the amp,try changing tubes-preferably a different brand. Swap both preamp and power tubes.One at a time,of course.
Last Edited by Tuckster on Aug 24, 2017 4:40 PM
Depending on the speaker choice, a Champ can be pretty bright sounding. In a studio setting, a Champ can be a great thing.
Last Edited by Joe_L on Aug 24, 2017 10:37 PM
Martin - my own experience with the 5W amp is, recording: good, playing with band: bad.
I don't know why for certain, but it's reasonable to suppose that it simply doesn't have enough volume at the lower frequencies and you end up just hearing the trebly parts. When recording, the amp volume doesn't matter and you can capture the nice round sound.
I know other people disagree but I can't help what I hear.
I tried the tube swaps and all, and that made the amp sound better (rounder, more controllable etc.) as advertised, for recording only.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Aug 24, 2017 11:46 PM
@1847 "so you are using two crappy mic's and the "amp" sounds like crap. hmmm."
Obviously, you are also taking me for an idiot. Well, you may be right -- but do not judge from the contents of this tread alone. Of course I´ve tried with other mics! Jesus Christ! Several: Shure 57 and 58, Shure Green B, Audix Fireball, Beyerdynamic 160, another old Beyer that I own but can´t remember the specifics of (carachteristic: "soft" sound) and a few other that I´ve forgotten, but one is old Japanese thing ... and so on.
And please note that the Chinese Shure copies are not at all "crappy". They are hardly distinguishable from the real thing, esp. the SM 57 copy -- at a third of the price. (Their presumed crappiness will probably show up in that they don´t hold up very well over the years, as opposed to, e.g. the original SM57 who is a workhorse.)
@Mindthegap: You are right. I´ve used it in studio contexts with passable results. (A bit "metallic" though.) The tubes are already swapped, as I´ve been informed, but I will try to get the specifics on that.
As I say, tube swaps work as advertised but IMO don't solve this problem. I was quite surprised and disappointed when I first heard a recording of my 5W amp with the band. It didn't sound like 'itself' at all.
In retrospect I shouldn't have been so surprised. 5W competing with even smallish guitar amps e.g. 40W, 60W? Seems obvious now.
The interesting thing is that the way it manifests. It's not that the harp isn't audible, it just doesn't have the proper harp sound, if you know what I mean.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Aug 25, 2017 8:38 AM
You may be right about decent mic’s being made in china. I spoke with The world renown master harp mic builder, steve warner just last week. He informed that at one time he was getting some great mic’s from china. He did say He could no longer get them. I gave him one of my shure 57’s to “transform” into a Ultra ”super 57” …… we are going to see the mighty flyers tomorrow, with any luck I will have my new ultra ” super 57” to try out. I’m thinking it will be a perfect match to use with my 57 fender champ.
You seem to have a perception that people think you're an idiot. I don't think that is the case. I think people are genuinely trying to help you. Most of us have never met you, so what might seem to be intuitive to you may not be obvious to us. Remember, you're the person who asked about ideas to reduce the harshness of your tone, but much of your equipment is designed to add harshness to your tone.
What sort of sound are you looking for? If there are players that you dig, use the same equipment they do. That will pretty much eliminate the equipment as a source of frustration.
If you want a clean, less distorted sound, get a cleaner amp and remove the distortion pedals. If you own an SM57, an SM58 and an Audix Fireball, those are known to represent the sound you put into them fairly accurately.
When I say proven, it means many players have tried them and they are known to work well. If a mic or amp that is generally regarded as being known good isn't working for you, there are only three alternatives.
1. You have a piece of defective equipment.
2. You aren't using it for the intended purpose like playing a 5W amp in a huge arena. A 5W amp is really considered a practice amp. Yes, people gig with it, but they accept the limitations or they work around them.
Sell the Harp Octave pedal, but a different pedal to fight feedback that wont alter your tone, like the Harp Shield.
If your mics aren't giving you the bass response you seek, buy one that does. Sell your mics and the EQ pedal. Use the funds to buy a Bulletini. It's a solid mic.
3. Your technique is preventing you from exploiting the full capabilities of the equipment. That's fixable.
I have been using lo-z XLR mics to play amplified harp for almost 4 decades. If you are playing through one into an amp you NEED an IMT. This is not open to debate or difference of opinion. The best IMHO is made by Hosa. Lone Wolf carries them at a decent price.
The most effective way to control feedback is to use a volume control on your mic. You use the VC to cool out the signal going into the amp. Blows Me Awa Productions sells them. I use one of those as well as a Hosa rat tail IMT with my PL-35.
A very nice warm overdrive pedal is the JRockett Blue Note Tour Series. Much less harsh and much more adjustable than the HO. In my experience, JJ tubes are generally warm and not harsh sounding.
I believe he was using self deprecating humor keep in mind he speaks several languages and he is fluent on the harmonica. I hardly think anyone considers him an idiot. however he does play harmonica so I would question his sanity ---------- .
@Joe L: Read me right -- I´m very grateful for the help I´m getting. Very grateful. If I´ve created another impression I apologize.
I want distortion. As I said, this amp is for blues and such stuff, but the distortion is insufficiently warm. At the soundcheck for the gig Friday night I decided to skip the amp and went through the Joyo American Sound instead, because the amp is so damned harsh. And no, it´s not defective.
At this small pub I could go halfway up on the volume before it got to loud. I still had lots to give in that department. One appealing feature of the amp is that it has quite a lot of power for its 5 Watts, but that comes with a price.
Quite reluctant to skip the EQ pedal since it gives me some bottom. Also, if I push the gain a little bit I can get a better sound at lower volumes -- but not sufficiently good.
If you go to 2:35 in this video you can get an impression of how it sounds. (From a wedding party some years back.)
@1847: Of course one could say that everyone who takes up this hopeless instrument is an idiot by obvious implication. As for me, I curse the day -- but I´m to old to learn something new now, and I kinda suck even more on the guitar.
After listening to your vid, the PL-35 should get you very close to where you want to be. Also take a close look at the Blue Note Tour, keeping in mind it has 4 knobs and you have to spend some time getting it dialed it in. But it's an OD not a distortion. The PL 35 may be enough by itself without having to replace the HO with the BNT.
You can get a Hosa rat tail IMT from Lone Wolf for $22.50 US. An XLR in line VC from Blows Me Away is $65 US and well worth it.
Your sound is better than what I was expecting. You achieve what I call "tight" distortion. The "edges" of the notes are well defined. And there is not much garbage going on between each note, so the sound is articulate. You just need to deepen the timbre. The PL-35 by itself may do that, but you NEED to use an IMT with it. Also, I strongly recommend the in line VC. You are not very far from where you want to be.
Also, check out the Xotic EP Booster. Very inexpensive and less edgy than the HO. Works well in tandem with BNT, but also sounds good on its own. What brand of tubes are in the amp?
I really enjoyed your performance.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 28, 2017 12:05 PM
@MindTheGap: No, that was an example of what I don´t particularly care for. I looks like I was using the Audix Fireball here, and that (possibly with the absence of an IMT as an added factor?) gives me plenty of volume but not a whole lot of warmth. Of course, you can´t always get the whole package and so on, but I´d really wish for some more break-up at lower volume with a softer touch.
@hyvj: Thank you for careful listening and many good pointers here. As you say, the sound is fairly articulate, but if I´d used the "correct" bullet mic -- that has the desired volume control! -- it would have been screechier. An OD might be just the ticket, if it doesn´t start to feed back to soon. And you´ve got me seriously interested in that PL 35 and that´s on top of my wishing list for now.
Sorry, but I don´t know a thing about the tubes, except that the originals were exchanged for something more "harmonica friendly". We with insufficient tech know-how should always have a grown-up with us when we go shopping, someone who asks about such matters. I´m very much at sea when it comes down to that stuff.
Ok, the Audix is very clean, but also very BRIGHT. It helps keep you articulate, but contributes to the harsh metallic timbre you don't like. IMHO, there is nothing "correct" about a bullet mic. They are technologically primitive and there is a reason they became obsolete. Sure, there are occasionally some that sound decent, but the vast majority of them will contribute to making your tone harsh and metallic. I suspect many harp players use them because they think that's the type of mic a blues harmonica player is "supposed to" use. I acknowledge that this is a minority opinion, but if you are going to use the type of amp you have, playing through a bullet is overkill. IMHO, the "best" distortion comes from the amp, not the mic.
In that regard, you express a concern about the potential for feedback from the Blue Note Tour OD, which is a valid concern. This is where a volume control (in line or integral to the mic) comes in. It allows you attenuate the input signal to control feedback. Also, if you are using a larger amp, it allows you to turn up the amp to its tonal "sweet spot" and then you control performance volume and input gain at the mic VC. This alllows you to get "dirt" at low volume.
Now, the Audix has no proximity effect. An SM57 or a 545 does. The PL-35 has very strong proximity effect. The BNT OD responds to technique--it's not just a sound effect. So, if you are using a mic with proximity effect and you tighten your cup, you'll get more grit from the BNT, and less grit if you ease up and back off. So, to a certain extent, you can vary your timbre.
The Xotic EP Booster is more steady state, but very cool. Not so much "in your face" as the HO.
Btw, the EV PL-35 may deepen your basic tone enough to make the EQ unnecessary. Personally, I am always looking for ways to simplify my rig by eliminating pieces of equipment. How come I have an 8 pedal board? Well, I've kissed a lot of frogs along the way. Another aside: If you are using a relatively clean amp, you can very effectively approximate distortion using a Phaser pedal turning the speed all the way down and the depth all the way up. The TC Electronic Helix is particualarly good for this application because it also has a "mix" control that is useful for moderating feedback. But I don't think this approach is likely to work very well with a small dirty little amp.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 28, 2017 12:03 PM
Yeah, I was one of those who bought a Shure G B because I was "supposed" to do it. Had seen too many pictures of the classic guys with it, had too many advisers (music store guys quite a few of them), and it didn´t help me at all. That was quite a few years ago, but that frog I could have done without kissing.
The Audix was rather cheap, and it certainly holds up great when it comes to preventing fedback -- but it´s bright, as you say, and not very interesting to squeeze.
Even if the EV PL-35 ain´t that expensive, you don´t happen to know if the Chinese have made an acceptable copy of it? (I´m pretty much stone broke now ...)
Well, most salesmen in a music store don't really know very much about harmonicas or harmonica amplification.
Also, almost 4 decades of live performance experience has taught me that a signifant portion of the conventional wisdom or folklore regarding harp amplication is NOT optimally practical. Most music store salesmen have no first hand knowledge and so don't know any better. I'm not claiming to be a great player or anything. For as much as I play, I should be much better than I am. But I like to think that I do understand the hardware and what does and doesn't work for what.
Anyway, I don't know anything about Chinese copies. But you should be able to sell your bullet for more than what a PL-35 would cost.
Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 28, 2017 3:13 PM
@hvyj: Music store salesmen comes in various guises, but the days when I trusted them on harmonica amplification matters are long gone.
Sadly, the bullet has a connection problem, and that was why I bought the (really cheap) Superlux -- with a VC. (And it is definitely comparable with the GB, for good and bad.) The same company has mic that looks very much like the PL-35 ... but I´ll go for the real thing.
