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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
F harp recommendations
F harp recommendations
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Andrew
1595 posts
Jul 27, 2017
4:07 AM
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Hi, I haven't visited this forum for 4 or more years, so I hope you'll forgive me barging in with a question like this.
In the last 5 years I've played more guitar and ukulele than harp. I don't even know where to go (in the UK) any more for value for money when harp buying.
I don't know the current state of Hohner's products. I don't know what are the most popular harps nowadays.
I need to buy an F harp.
It's for potential charity acoustic uke gigs that will include Van Morrison's Bright Side of the Road. Now this sounds more like Stevie Wonder than Rice Miller, and although I'm with Adam that the Marine Band is the harp for me for blues, for this number it can be anything you recommend.
Problem is, I don't like high harps, so my Marine Band in F is heavily tweaked, and although it's OK in my room, I know that in a room full of ukes, I'll be playing it 10 times louder and notes will jam badly. I know this from experience: my harp tweaking is amateurish.
So I want a new out of the box F harp, for backup, for curiosity, for starting afresh, for reliability, for variety, for modernism, for whatever. If I could keep it in its ootb state for reliable loud playing in public, that would be great.
Please recommend makes of harp and a shop/store and maybe I'll try not to be lazy and read all the threads about Hohner I can find. (I had a Golden Melody once, which overblew like a dream, but it was too fat for my mouth and I got rid of it)
thanks
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Andrew.
Last Edited by Andrew on Jul 27, 2017 4:58 AM
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SuperBee
4836 posts
Jul 27, 2017
4:18 AM
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Hard for me to imagine a golden melody as 'fat'. In my imagination at least they're about the thinnest harps going. But I've not measured one.
I reckon what'll happen on this thread is that you'll get every harp recommended. There will be an advocate for a Suzuki, maybe a Hammond or Olive. Someone will be sure to advise you to get a steel reed seydel and I'll say the special 20 is as good as anything, but I also dig marine bands. There'll be some cheers for the Suzuki harpmaster and bluesmaster.
Somewhere among all that someone will mention the Easttop harps.
There'll be discussion of cover shape, reliability, tuning and tone. All great considerations, along with price.
Comb material and size will be mentioned.
Why does no one mention Lee Oscar? They have now.
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Andrew
1596 posts
Jul 27, 2017
4:30 AM
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Yeah, I've been on the web long enough to know this.
But I'll try to rely on my ability to sift.
I'm relying on my memory of this forum 5 years ago when the latest craze was fairly easy to detect.
I should also be able to pick up hints on the state of Marine Bands nowadays, which I might well buy if they seem OK.
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Andrew.
Last Edited by Andrew on Jul 27, 2017 5:13 AM
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Tommy the Hat
635 posts
Jul 27, 2017
4:50 AM
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Hi Andrew. This has nothing to do with your question, sorry, but I found it interesting. I too haven't been around the forum for about 5 years. In May for some strange reason I thought...after seeing someone play one..."why not try to learn the Ukulele! So I bought one. Somehow, I have no idea why, it caused me to go get my harps and I started playing again. But being away from harps so long I had a question concerning a new one and so, a couple of weeks ago, signed back in here. How about that!
Uke on! Oops..I mean Harp on!
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Tommy
My YouTube vocal covers
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Andrew
1597 posts
Jul 27, 2017
4:52 AM
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Nice coincidence, Tommy. All hail Madcat Ruth, btw!
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Andrew.
Last Edited by Andrew on Jul 27, 2017 5:13 AM
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imaginess
5 posts
Jul 27, 2017
6:35 AM
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If you are used to playing Hohners and don't want another Marine Band I would suggest getting a Special 20. It is relatively cheap while still being a quality harp IMHO. I don't think there would be a reason to invest more unless you planned to use it more frequently. If you wanted something more substantial I would suggest a Rocket or MB Crossover, not to mention one of the other harps brands mentioned above.
As far as a store, I am not in the UK so I can only suggest Amazon. There prices appear to be competitive. I used to buy from Coast2Coast music but they are no longer active.
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ejakon
51 posts
Jul 27, 2017
8:38 AM
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I love my F harp Seydel 1847, really has that John Lee Sonny Boy style to it, the sealed maple comb also tastes like maple syrup so thats an added bonus
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dougharps
1514 posts
Jul 27, 2017
9:21 AM
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SuperBee covered it.
There are lots of good harps out there. If you like Hohners, I think that the best value per dollar that plays well and is not harsh is SP20. But I have a number of other models/brands that I use at gigs, too. Regarding LOs, the high ones (F, E, and Eb) do not seem as airy as the lower LOs, and I still will use high LOs at gigs sometimes.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jul 27, 2017 9:24 AM
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Andrew
1598 posts
Jul 28, 2017
3:33 AM
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Well, OK, that's probably exhausted that one.
Perhaps I should have asked a more specific question about Marine Bands.
5 years ago the deluxes had come out, but I didn't like them much, then there were rumours that the basic 1896 was being improved and repackaged and the combs sealed?
Vendor photos still have those crappy old nails, but maybe they are old stock photos.
I just bought a Hohner Blues harp because I liked the look of the screws. A local music shop sells harps for about twice what they cost on Amazon, so maybe I'll just go and look at them. Otoh, they may be old stock if they are too expensive to move.
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Andrew.
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Martin
1204 posts
Jul 28, 2017
4:51 AM
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Recently I bought a Harley Benton F harp for considerably less than what a pack of cigarettes would cost me.
It is quite alright -- if you´re on a budget.
(Generally, the higher pitched harps last a bit longer, even the cheapo varieties.)
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dougharps
1521 posts
Jul 28, 2017
7:48 AM
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In my experience the relatively high pitched D is the one most likely to fail.
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Doug S.
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SuperBee
4839 posts
Jul 28, 2017
8:59 AM
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Mine too Doug. It's the key I repair most. I actually just this week took delivery of 10 each new draw 4 and 5 reeds for hohner D harps. It seems there's at least 1 D harp in every job I do. There was a D Manji and a D 1847 Nobel in the batch of 4 I just sent out, 3 D Marine bands in the 6 that went out immediately prior to that, 7 D plates in the 17 1847 plates I mended before those. And there's a D sp20 on its way to me. I myself carried 4 D harps to my gig tonight, mainly because I couldn't decide which backup was best and half my act uses D harp.
Still, it seems to me they cop a beating all over the place
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SuperBee
4840 posts
Jul 28, 2017
9:09 AM
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Oh yeah it's true marine bands have sealed combs but they do still have nails too.
I just buy marine bands these days. My stock (unsealed, purchased as a old stock clearance special in 2012) Marine Band F harp is a weapon. Up with my favourite all time harps. My back up is cool too; I tried to make it as good as the frontline harp, but I converted it to screws with a zajac comb. I did a fair bit of reed work and it is a great harp, but I still grab the stock harp mostly. Sometimes I use the other just to remind myself it's also completely good.
I have a sp20 F in a 'wearable' set too, which I purchased second hand, from a guy changing over to Steel reeds. I think I paid $20 for it, adjusted and it is also a good harp.
But it's really hard to say what any individual harp will be like; there are still plenty of lemons ?? turn up
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Arrick
76 posts
Jul 28, 2017
5:34 PM
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My F is a Golden Melody and I don't like it at all. My new Rocket Low-F is one of my faves. It's surprisingly loud for a low F. It's much more comfortable than my MBs and SP20s but still feels very familiar.
I get mine from Sweetwater or Rockin Ron.
Last Edited by Arrick on Jul 28, 2017 5:35 PM
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groyster1
2981 posts
Jul 28, 2017
7:08 PM
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my harps are about location.....they play better in agreable climates with low humidity
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Andrew
1599 posts
Jul 29, 2017
1:25 AM
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Yeah, the comments about D harps ring a bell, but I haven't played mine for a long time.
I love my Low-D MB, but I took it to the uke group once and of course no-one could hear a note I played on it.
Our group is odd - the leader has been playing rock and folk guitar for 55 years and harp for 50, but he has never learnt to play cross-harp, I kid you not!
I'm not a good harp player and I never practise in 1st position, so when I was forced by him to improv something in 1st position, I was so bad it was really embarrassing.
But it wasn't as bad as his bass playing.
So to stand in for our bassist who likes regular cigarette breaks, I'm thinking of buying a cheap bass guitar kit with an amp which I can use with a harp (I've got a Shure SM57 already), but that's probably another thread.
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Andrew.
Last Edited by Andrew on Jul 29, 2017 6:37 AM
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Arrick
77 posts
Jul 29, 2017
6:25 AM
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I play bass also, but not as much as harp. After a lot of research I ended up with a Fender Bronco 40 1x10. Great value amp. Its not to be compared to my tube amp, but if you play around with the settings you can get some decent tone and volume from it with your harp. The main thing I use it for is it has a headphone jack and USB interface built in which makes it super easy to practice or edit on my computer.
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Martin
1210 posts
Jul 30, 2017
6:33 AM
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doug & Bee: I´ve been informed, from what I´d call a "reliable source", that the shorter the reed, the longer its life expectancy. A supposed metallurgical fact: shorter reeds don´t swing that much, hence not causing the same amount of stress.
I know the D harps are a bitch, but they are the breaking point in my experience. My E and F and (high) G last forever, even the cheapo varieties. (I´ve had considerable success with Hohner´s Silver Stars, which normally for me, if I buy a C or A or some such, go ftat the very same moment I take them out of the box.
This could perhaps be just a series of coincidences, and all wrong (metallurgy is certainly not my strong suit), but still ...
Last Edited by Martin on Jul 30, 2017 6:34 AM
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SuperBee
4847 posts
Jul 30, 2017
6:47 AM
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It's true I don't see many F harps in for repair. But I always explained that as due to the relatively unpopular nature of the harp. I'll buy the explanation that they just last longer due to their nature though, except of course the reeds are the same length as those in a D harp, so I'm not sure where that leaves us.
I hope it's true because I want my F harps to keep on keeping on
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dougharps
1525 posts
Jul 30, 2017
8:41 AM
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I have previously heard/read that D harps fail due to being the lowest pitch short slot harps and I have repeated this, but now I think it is not that simple.
If all else was equal in terms of frequency of use and equal breath force, there would be two factors at play: 1) the number of flexes of the reed required to sound the note (higher pitch = higher frequency of flexing; 2) force on the flexing zone of the reed is related to the weight and lever arm length of the reed. The repeated stresses caused by frequency and force lead to eventual failure, whatever the reed material. However,in real use all is not equal in our breath force and frequency of use, so it cannot be determined how all the factors interact in actual use.
The harps most frequently used playing 2nd position by me, and I believe others as well, are the C, A, and D harps. The majority of songs called by guitar players in blues, folk, country, and rock seem to be in G, E, and A, and in general, 2nd position is the most used position in playing harp in those genres.
The harps that most frequently have failed me after hard playing and that have needed reed repair or replacement are the C, A, and D harps. It could be draw notes, it could be blow notes from playing octaves too hard, but my reeds have failed most often on those keys of harps. I should mention that since I set up tighter gaps on all my harps for some occasional OBs, I have learned to moderate my breath force and they fail much less frequently. If they are gapped tighter they will choke if you attack too hard. You learn lighter breath force from accidentally choking reeds during playing.
If you are intemperate in your breath force all or some of he time (BBQ Bob knows his stuff!) and/or sloppy about which notes you bend and how far you bend them relative to "the floor" (The Iceman knows his stuff!) then it seems likely that these 3 will be the keys of harps that have reed failure due to more frequent use.
An additional factor IMHO, is that the reeds on C and A are longer and allow more air leakage (more forgiving of harder breath force), and the shorter reeds on the D leak less, so that during hard play they can accidentally be bent "to the floor" or beyond. Even if the D is used a little less than C and A, it is used enough after playing C or A harps that the failure to adjust attack force becomes a factor in Ds failing.
I think that switching among these three keys as often as is called for by song key changes in guitar rock, blues, folk, country music places D harps at risk, because you can play the longer slot harps harder without damage due to more leakage.
The Eb, E, F, F# (higher), and high G don't wail the way a D harp does and are used less frequently. Also, because of their pitch we change how we play them to avoid shattering glasses and bottles in venues, and to prevent having to witness the unsightly view of bleeding ears in the audience and on stage.
Just a theory...
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Doug S.
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Andrew
1600 posts
Aug 03, 2017
8:20 AM
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Well, my Hohner Blues Harp arrived today. It's not as loud as my Marine Band.
It's nicely set up - it overblows, but not cleanly, all the way from holes 2 to 6, and it overdraws, but not cleanly, on 7.
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Andrew.
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Last Edited by Andrew on Aug 03, 2017 8:22 AM
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