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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Complete set all in one brand/model?
Complete set all in one brand/model?
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rhetoriccamel
6 posts
Jul 23, 2017
4:26 PM
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I'm curious if anyone has a 6 or 12 harmonica set that are of the same make and model? Wondering if a lot of people have that kind of ocd tendency, or if it's just me? I only currently have harmonicas in the key of C because I don't know what keys to get next. Slow process when I can only purchase them occasionally.
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Arrick
72 posts
Jul 23, 2017
5:12 PM
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I have 14 diatonic harps. 7 of them ar Hohner Special 20s. I keep them all in the same wallet case. The other 7 are a blend of brands/models so I keep them in a separate case. I think I'll replace most of those with SP20s over time with the exception of low keys that aren't available. You can see my set on the "Show me your harp case" thread.
Once you find a brand/model that you prefer in C, I'd suggest an A harp next. Then G, D, Bb. If you're just playing alone or to jam tracks, that might be all you need. If you're going to jams, don't be surprised if you end up with all 12 keys.
I don't buy complete sets because they include keys that I don't like. (E and F for example. I use low tuned E/F). H
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hvyj
3377 posts
Jul 23, 2017
5:49 PM
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Well, I have complete sets of all one model. Being a multi position player, I consider my instrument to be my complete set of 12-13 harps and I do not ordinarily mix the make and model in a set. I usually carry a Low F as well as a regular/high F and I carry a low F# instead of a regular/high F#. I have the Low F# made if it is not offered in the particular model of the set. I don't understand why lowF# is not the standard. Regular/high F# is too high IMHO.
But, as a practical matter, a set of seven harps in these keys will cover you in most situations: G A Bb C D Eb F. If you play a lot in fifth position, you wind up using the "odd" keys more regularly.
I recently had a set of 9 Olives with aluminum combs tuned down so I would be able to play with a band that tunes to A432. (Keys G Ab A Bb C D Eb E F) The bandleader also tunes to A432 for his solo gigs and I also sit in with him on some of his gigs. I had an extra Db Hammond on hand so I also had that tuned down to give me a set of 10 since I use Db to play F minor in fifth position and since since my Olives have alumninum combs like the Hammond, it was a close match. Plus, even as extravagant as I am about spending $ on harps, I didn't want to spend any more to have a Db in a specialty tuning I don't use all the time.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jul 23, 2017 7:37 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
925 posts
Jul 23, 2017
8:44 PM
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I have a complete set(s) of 1896 Marine bands, Lee Oskars a mixed bag (Pro Harp, Valved, Hammond, Manji) in all 12 keys in Suzuki. I've also got a few Seydels. I don't play any of them as a "SET". I just grab whats working best + a couple of spares and go. Not boasting, it's just a side effect of the addiction. There are Chromatics, Echos and Tremolos also. A few of us even have Harmonettas, Melodicas, Jaw Harps and Kazoos. Careful, you will find yourself in a similar predicament.
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Spderyak
149 posts
Jul 23, 2017
8:54 PM
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I changed over to a set of Rocket Hohner harmonicas.
At 1st just one or two till the set was complete.
The spacing is different from the crossover and 20's but the same as an Oskar if I remember correctly
Not the end of the world but I found it a bit easier to keep that in mind...course there are always exceptions..
Last Edited by Spderyak on Jul 23, 2017 9:01 PM
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nacoran
9539 posts
Jul 23, 2017
9:17 PM
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My set is a mishmash of different models. My OCD started hooking into it, but then I thought to myself, why? I can't afford a full set of customs, so I figure I should at least work my way through all the better harps to figure out what I like best. I got through most of them, and have bought multiples on Sp20s and Lee Oskars.
I have considered getting a set of Easttops, but even with that, I was looking to see if I could get some different models, or at least different colored covers. (I haven't seen any of the U.S. guys offering the different colored models, but I've seen some online.) I figure having a backup harp in each key is probably worthwhile and Easttop really are a good value right now.
My ideal set would probably be some sort of logical combinations of colors to make it easy to sort them (probably based on the circle of fifths rather than by lowest to highest). I like several models. Crossovers, everything I've tried from Seydel, Sp20s, LOs, Easttop T008S...
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BnT
67 posts
Jul 23, 2017
9:49 PM
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I have and use a full set of Suzuki Manji's but I've been playing long enough that I've had full sets of Marine Band''s, Hohner Pro Harps, Seydel 1847 Silver's, and Bends - with many one offs in between and in addition.
That being said I'd recommend trying different keys from different companies until you find what sounds and feels best to you - Suzuki Manji, Hohner Crossover, Seydel 1847, etc.
It's so individual - some players like particular harps because of the feel in the mouth, the tone, the tuning (equal v. just v. compromise), the durability, the type of comb, easier bending, etc.
So that's what I recommend. Don't get "stuck" with a set you don't like. Try a number of harps before you get a set from one company. And forget endorsers - odds are their endorsement is in exchange for A. free harps; that have been B. modified and/or re-tuned.
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BnT
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Joe_L
2739 posts
Jul 23, 2017
10:09 PM
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The only advantage to having a full set of one model is that the hole spacing safe consistent and that the feel of the combs and covers will be consistent.
I have a full set of Marine Band Deluxes and a full set of MS harps which are pieced together from parts I dig. I play the MS harps WAY more that the Marine Bands.
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1847
4307 posts
Jul 23, 2017
10:38 PM
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And forget endorsers ,,,,,
so how did you get a full set of bends jukes without an endorsement?
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SuperBee
4825 posts
Jul 23, 2017
11:12 PM
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choosing the next key is easy; A or D. Then Bb G F Eb E Ab Db B and F#
lots of people have sets of same make/model. i kinda do and kinda don't. all the harps i play are hohner, and they're mainly marine bands but there is a lot of variety among them, crossovers, customised deluxes, customised 1896s, stock 1896s, slightly customised, extensively customised.
today i read a funny piece of logic on a customiser's website. he mentioned how he learned a particular technique from the factory technicians, who have been using it for over 100 years. i wondered, how come they don't use it on the harps they manufacture. clearly they dont, because this guy has to come along after and work on the harps from the factory to make them play properly
i had an exciting moment last week when, after replacing a reed in an 1847 Noble, i tested it and thought at last i had found an 1847 that was pretty good to play. so they do exist i thought. no bull, this was a pretty fine harp. i couldnt really fault it, and i've been finding fault with them for quite a while now.
then i realised, i'd seen this harp last year and set it up. i laughed. but also pleased with my set up. i impressed myself. now im thinking if i can make 1847s play like that, maybe i could go for a set. but i dont enjoy working on them. maybe ben boumann could do with some business
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jul 23, 2017 11:12 PM
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timeistight
2155 posts
Jul 24, 2017
2:14 AM
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I have a full "set" of "Marine Bands" from low D through regular E consisting of a three true custom harps, a couple of Hohner Thunderbirds, a couple of stock Deluxe Marine Bands, a couple of Crossover Marine Bands with Corian combs, a couple standard Marine Bands with Crossover combs, and six stock Crossovers.
I also carry around eight Special 20s in country tuning and one standard-tuned Special 20 in F.
Stashed around the house I have a bunch more Special 20s, five of the old non-MS Hohner Pro Harps in the "odd" keys, a full set plus a couple of spares of Golden Melody harmonicas which I'm planning to tune to "Todd Parrott" tuning, four valved Suzuki Pros (two of which are in Paddy Richter tuning), two valved Seydels (I forget which model), one Seydel Pulmonica (spiral-tuned harp starting at low G), one Suzuki Manji that taking to SPAH to give to Gary Lehmann, plus I have four Lee Oskars and three Huang Silver Stars which I'm probably taking to the swap meet at SPAH. Oh yeah, and a couple 365's in C, one a Steve Baker Special.
And I'm working on putting together a short set of old-style Marine Bands in 7-limit just intonation.
And that's just the diatonics!
Last Edited by timeistight on Jul 24, 2017 2:15 AM
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ejakon
46 posts
Jul 24, 2017
3:06 AM
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I have a set of 4 piiece Seydel 1847s (from A to F) in various models that i bought with money i worked for recently so i can upgrade my shitty marine bands, hoping these ones wont blow out like my other harps.
other than that, I have a Bluesnaster in G that i dont really use, and a special 20 in b flat which is one of my most favorite harps
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kham
117 posts
Jul 24, 2017
3:54 AM
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I only use gold plated danneckers aside from my one diamond encrusted B-rad. (customized of course)
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Arrick
73 posts
Jul 24, 2017
5:28 AM
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I think there's a big difference between having a set you build over time vs buying a complete set with your fingers crossed. I think there's a healthy balance to find of trial/error vs gear addiction.
Buying a set can trap you if you aren't careful. There's an older guy who comes to our blues jam who's first harp purchase was a 7 harp Piedmont Blues set ($29 total). He's 5 years deep on this set and making zero progress as a player. Had he bought one $30 harp then built from there, he wouldn't be limited by his instruments.
You might be surprised at how well you can adapt to different harps in a set with ample practice. Muscle memory is an amazing thing.
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AppalachiaBlues
35 posts
Jul 24, 2017
5:54 AM
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I like sets. I like to build them over time, as budget allows. I need all 12 keys. I play with different musicians/bands, covering blues, rock, and country. I have had songs called in EVERY key. I play 80% 2nd position, 10% 1st position, and 10% 3rd position. I even use B, E, Db, and F# fairly often.
First Set: around 2010-2015, I built up a set of 14 Special 20s (The standard 12 keys + High G + a recently added Low F Rocket which pretends to be a Special 20). I use the Special 20 set for daily practice/woodshed. Some are starting to show their age, and not all are in perfect tune. I keep them in a Seydel flat case, which holds 14.
Second Set: I built a set of 12 Session Steels, which I keep in a 12-hole Seydel gig bag (the one where you see the ends of the harps). My set runs from Low E to regular Eb. (Like @hvyj, I dig the Low F#). My flat keys are all on stock orange combs, while the "regular" keys are all on Grey Winter Edition combs. This is like my piano of white/black keys. I added Seydel Noble key stickers on the ends of all the harps. This is the set I use for recording and gigging. I "baby" them and keep them clean. I expect them to work forever.
Third Set: (that I don't really need) is a set of 8 Manjis, in the square Suzuki case that someone thought looked like a "purse" on another thread. I bought these on a 2016 trip to Tokyo, because they were so inexpensive I could not resist. I use this set for playing out with my guitar friends at bars, etc. And an occasional open mic. They are loud for playing un-amped with friends. In these situations, the 5 or 6 most commonly used keys are sufficient. And the Manjis seem to take a beating. At the price I paid, I don't mind taking them out on beery bar nights... arriving with my small Suzuki "purse" under arm.
In addition to my 3 sets, I have a drawer full of miscellaneous harps, in varying states of working order. This "non-set" includes: Blues Harp, Marine Band, MBD, Crossover, GM, Lee Oskar, Olive, Hammond, Solist Pro, Big River, etc. The working ones get pulled out from time to time, and find their way into pockets, car, suitcase, laptop bag, etc. I play these while walking the dog, waiting for a bus, etc., or downtime on business trips. If I had the spare cash, I would be tempted to build a set of Hammonds or MBDs next -- but I don't need more sets.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jul 25, 2017 4:52 AM
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Fil
338 posts
Jul 24, 2017
6:38 AM
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I have a complete set of SP20s that I am replacing with Crossovers. My first harp was a Blues Harp B I think, given to me as kind of a joke. Except I took it seriously. Sp20 in C came next. Liked it and over time stuck with them and filled out the set. I did try an 1847 in Bb and an LO, but perceived no big advantage over the 20s.
So, I'll end up with a set of 20s, a set of Crossovers, and lows that work for me. I do basic tweaking and send them off for reed replacement or other major repair, but they have been really durable for me. Good work-a-day harps. To each his own, right?
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Phil Pennington
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rhetoriccamel
7 posts
Jul 24, 2017
2:32 PM
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Loving all the responses! Part of me was expecting a lot of comments about different brands making a better key harmonica than others, and therefore making a lot of mix and match sets. I'm surprised there are so many with complete sets.
I've played a Marine Band, a Special 20, and a Promaster all in the key of C. Marine band was an older harmonica which didn't last very long as I tend to drool a bit while playing and had a swollen comb within a month of playing which never completely shrank back down to original size. Recently when I picked harmonica back up I found out all of my local shops only carry Hohner, so I got a Special 20 which I enjoyed learning on. Then in early June I purchased the Promaster. It took some getting used to, but I'm really loving the sound and feel of the Promaster. I want to try an Olive or a Manji, but not sure if the combs will swell in those? I hear they're a composite material, but I'd really hate to drop that cash to get a swollen comb after some playing. My main attraction to the olive is that green is my favorite color (how can you not want harmonicas in your favorite color? haha).
I doubt my harmonica playing will ever be in a jam or band situation, more just playing it because I love to have an instrument to help clear my mind. Also it's useful around the fire, or just while sitting around the house, but where's the fun in only one key!
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SuperBee
4827 posts
Jul 24, 2017
2:40 PM
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Rhetoricamel, I don't think anyone these days makes a harp where the comb swells.
Certainly not those resin blocks used in the Suzuki harps you mentioned, but even the basic Marine Band has a sealed comb since late 2011.
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rhetoriccamel
10 posts
Jul 24, 2017
2:53 PM
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Superbee - that is interesting, thanks for the info. The label on the bottom of my MB case has 2011/2 on a sticker (I'm assuming that's the date it was made?) and the comb definitely is swollen. If that's one of the resin composite mixtures then I might want to stay away from those style harmonicas.
Edit: noticed after making this post you said late 2011, so mine is probably the old swelling style wood comb.
Last Edited by rhetoriccamel on Jul 24, 2017 2:54 PM
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SuperBee
4828 posts
Jul 24, 2017
3:26 PM
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I think you're mixing up 2 things I'm saying.
Suzuki use composite combs, resin and wood fibre. Blocks of resin with wood fibres embedded. They do not swell.
Also, Hohner have changed the combs in marine bands. The current model is fully sealed and does not swell
I am pretty sure the Hohner change occurred late 2011. Could have been early 2012. I bought some old stock clearance specials in May 2012 (found my correspondence with rockin Ron so I'm sure of the date) incidentally each of those harps were great thanks Ron Hobdy.
The old marine band combs are black at the back and lacquered on the tips of the tines. They will swell if you get them all wet.
The new ones are brown all over, with the word HOHNER writ large on the back. They don't swell under normal use and I've just never seen or heard of one swelling at all.
I bought 4 old type marine bands and one new type in the same order from Rockin Ron. The F harp, Eb and Ab were so good ootb that I've never modified them. The Lo Eb got the treatment.
I still gig the F and Eb, and the Ab is just not part of my show but still my go to Ab. That F sees a fair bit of work. I actually spent a lot of time practicing blow bending on the Ab too and it shows just minimal swelling around the high end, really nothing much at all.
The new-style harp I bought in that order was Bb and it's actually in my gig/rehearsal set too, I just modified it to take bolts in the covers and then decided it played so well I was gonna leave the rest nailed. It's still a great harp 5 years later.
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Tommy the Hat
625 posts
Jul 24, 2017
3:37 PM
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Rhetoricamel, that number on the bottom of the harp case 2011/2 that you mentioned. I'm not sure what that is. I have a bag full of old Hohner plastic harp cases from harps I purchased between 2011 and 2012. One says: 2011/6 but the others range in numbers from 2012 to 2016, 2018 and even 2021. So I'm not sure what they number means.
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Tommy
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BnT
68 posts
Jul 24, 2017
8:56 PM
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To: 1847
Re: Bends
I worked at SPAH in Sacramento (2009?)for my friend Skip Simmons (amp repair), got to know Thiago Cerveira and Melk Rocha from Bends - did some work for them, played music with them, became friends; subsequently worked for Bends at NAMM in Anaheim and SPAH in Minneapolis. So,that's how I came to have a collection of Bends harps - diatonic & chromatic.
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BnT
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belfast_harper
437 posts
Jul 25, 2017
3:12 AM
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I have over 40 marine band harps, I have tried other brands, custom harps, crossovers and the MB deluxe, but the MB is perfect for me.
I have a full 18 harp set from low D to hi G and short set of 5 (G, A, C, D & F) and a load of duplicates for common keys.
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AppalachiaBlues
36 posts
Jul 25, 2017
4:55 AM
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Do any of you keep a set of JI harps and a set of ET harps?
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RyanMortos
1649 posts
Jul 25, 2017
6:14 AM
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I've tried a bunch of brands/models but in my current "gig" bag that I carry to jams is half & half Hohner Special 20s, Suzuki Manjis. I could see it being soley one of either. It used to be half & half special 20s, golden melodys but I switched out the GMs for the Manjis maybe a year ago. I still have the GMs but I sold off nearly every other brand/model I had that I didn't try to customize and destroy. I do have a custom (Buddha) marine band on my desk I practice playing chromatically daily though.
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~Ryan
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Last Edited by RyanMortos on Jul 25, 2017 6:19 AM
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jbone
2329 posts
Jul 25, 2017
7:51 AM
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Over a lot of years I have used a lot of harps. My first fairly full set was SP20's in the 90's. I then put together most of a full set of Bushman Delta Frost.
When Suzuki introduced the Manji this became my go to harp. While I don't have a total full set I do have all the keys I normally use. A, Bb, C, D, Low D, F, Low F, G. I have a Hammond Eb and a different flavor Low Eb. Sometimes opportunity in the form of a sale on a different harp occurs and I try something new or that I have not used in a while.
I have other brands as backups as well.
I play in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd positions with a little exploration into 5th occasionally.
Manji have been my work horse model for over 3 years now.
My "spares" are a mix of MB, Eastop 008, Suzuki Pure, and a couple other flavors, but mostly they come out only in an emergency or if I need a different sound than Manji. Manji has a rasp that does not work on some sweet songs we do, so I sub a nicer sounding harp then.
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Reverbnation
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BnT
69 posts
Jul 25, 2017
11:24 PM
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rhetoriccamel - If you decide to try a Suzuki I would recommend the Manji over the Olive because of the cover shape and open sides - seem to project sound better.
As an aside, I had a friend who had a couple of Manjis and bought 6 Olives (because he liked the green covers) then decided they put out less volume; sold me the Olives cheap and bought all Seydels; was recently at a lesson and didn't have the harp he needed so he bought a Hohner Crossover from the teacher. Thinks it's the best. I have no question what his next "set" will be. Clearly, the "best harp" set is subject to change.
The Olives? I got them retuned to just-compromise and replaced the "Olive greens" with Manji covers - great.
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BnT
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hvyj
3388 posts
Jul 26, 2017
9:10 AM
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A different perspective: personally, I prefer the full length unvented covers on the Olives. I like the tone better-- to my ear, it's a richer and more focused sound. I have my Olives re- tuned to ET which is my preference and I put aluminum combs on both my Olives and a small set of Manjis I keep at my office to fool around with on breaks when I work late.
There's no right or wrong to this stuff. It depends on your personal preference and style of play. I play multiple positions, more single notes than chords and don't do hardly any tongue slaps and stuff like that which tends to only work well in certain positions. But those who play different styles are likely to have other preferences.
I really like Olives with aluminum combs. I have a set of 9 tuned down to A434 Pure ET to play with musician friends of mine who tune to A432 and a set of 13 tuned to A442 for general use. I use custom GMs for gigging, but I consider my Olives to be gig worthy if I wasn't using my customs.
I do not like my Manjis nearly as much and I would never consider using them for gigs.
But, YMMV.
FWIW, I think the best (non custom) harp on the market right now is the Seydel 1847 Noble. I have mine re-tuned to A442 pure ET and set up with full length covers. With stock covers the volume is too powerful for me. But they sound great. Phenomenal instruments. Now, the covers are thicker than other brands which may be uncomfortable for some players but it forces you to open your mouth and use a bigger, deeper embouchure which I consider to be a good thing. Also, the stainless steel reeds are somewhat harder to play, so you are forced to use better technique. BUT the instrument rewards you if you do and really responds well to good technique. So, these are exceptional to practice with and using them for practice has improved my playing.
The low tuned keys have combs that are 1mm thicker than the standard combs. I have a Low F and a Low F# which are superior to Thunderbirds (which are decent harps--probably the best Hohner is making right now). I also bought a Low Eb purely to use for practice to strengthen my breath technique. I usually replace the combs on my OOB harps because they are rarely flat. But the Noble combs are outstanding and I like aluminum combs anyway. And the ss reeds are extremely durable and have very even tone.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jul 26, 2017 9:46 AM
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imaginess
2 posts
Jul 26, 2017
12:13 PM
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Spderyak, I am a little jealous you have a complete set of Rockets. I have 3 (C,D,A) myself and love them. For the most part I have Special 20's after switching over from Lee Oskars. I also bought a Low C Thunderbird, which replaced a Marine Band 364.
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barbequebob
3434 posts
Jul 26, 2017
12:22 PM
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@hvyj -- The idea of the thicker comb makes sense because what it does is more like the way a thicker reed plate will make a harp play louder and more aggressively, but the drawback is that if you're a really hard player in terms of breath force, you can stress the crap out of them and blow them out fast but with the thicker comb on a low pitched harp, it has the same effect as a thicker plate but minus the stress being put on it when you have a thicker reed plate.
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Barbeque Bob Maglinte
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hot4blues
65 posts
Jul 26, 2017
10:25 PM
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My collection is varied, almost comparable to a bag of M&Ms. My diatonics include Suzukis Blues Masters in almost every key with some Hohner backups (Blues Harp, Big River, even a Blue Midnight). Then there's my chromatics. A Swan 1040, Hohner Discovery 48, a Seydel Standard, & 3 Suzuki SCX models (SCX48, 56, & 64). In the near future I'm hoping on a few MBs, & either a Hohner Chromonica 270 Deluxe or the Suzuki Sirius48
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