chrisjaybecker
8 posts
Jun 17, 2017
1:07 AM
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How do you guys feel about soaking harps, or even running them in water, for cleaning?
I know you're never SUPPOSED to do this, but a lot of players have and do. This debate goes back at least as far as Tony Glover's "Blues Harp" from 1965.
I've soaked everything from wooden-combed Marine Bands and Blues Harps to plastic-combed Special 20's, Lee Oscars, and Golden Melodies. I've had many harps I thought were flatted-out suddenly spring back to life as loud and sweet as the day I bought them.
Personally, I do not recommend soak wooden-combed harps because of swelling. But soaking a plastic-combed harp, especially a Special 20, works great. Also, I don't actually SOAK them, i.e. plop them in a glass of water overnight, like Glover said he liked to do. To me, that's overkill. I just run them under the tap, then blow and draw them dry. Also, do NOT use a blow dryer... what are you, nuts?
What do you guys think?
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dougharps
1471 posts
Jun 17, 2017
7:16 AM
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I think, don't soak wooden harps! It will temporarily tighten things up regarding the comb leaking around the plates, but then the comb teeth swell and shred your lips. If you trim the swollen teeth, then you can't play it without soaking first, so the teeth reach the plate edges. I learned from Glover's book, too... Although a soak in whiskey makes for a tasty harp!
As to rinsing a Special 20, I would rather take it apart to clean it when needed. Special 20s actually don't leak that much at the plate and comb, unless there are bumps at the draw plate screw holes. If you like the reed slots tighter, as though embossed, it might make a difference. I guess water could temporarily slightly tighten reed/slot tolerances, but I don't think the corrosion risk is worth any small benefit. Newer harps have closer tolerances already.
A flat wooden comb and a draw plate free of screw tapping extrusions will be plenty tight without any soaking.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 17, 2017 7:17 AM
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SuperBee
4742 posts
Jun 17, 2017
7:29 AM
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I actually believe it was only ever about cleaning. The whole comb swelling business sounds like nonsense to me. It seems just as likely to make a comb fit worse as to "fill the gaps". But if you dip the harp in solvent regularly there's a good chance it will free up the goo.
I know there are old brochures that officially advocate the soak. But it's a long time since I read the official line, so long that I'm not sure I ever did.
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WinslowYerxa
1335 posts
Jun 17, 2017
8:24 AM
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The comb swelling business is very real - or was back when unsealed pearwood was the main comb wood. All the swelling, poking, shrinkage, etc., did happen.
I don't ever remember manufacturers recommending soaking. That was more a matter of player lore, as in Tony Glover's book. I started playing about three years after that book came out, and soaking to purpose was a real thing.
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Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 17, 2017 8:24 AM
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nacoran
9491 posts
Jun 17, 2017
9:19 AM
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It's worse than just swelling. The contraction afterwards when it dries leaves your harps looser.
A fully sealed harp should be fine, depending on the sealant. Plastic harps should be fine as long as you dry them out afterwards. You'll get more crud out though if you take them apart and/or run them through a sonic cleaner. (You can get a sonic cleaner for about $40. The one I got from Turboharp will run 4 harps at once, and the cycle only takes a couple minutes.
As for running water through your harps... if you are talking about running the tap full blast, I'd suggest against it. Water has a lot more mass than air and it's possible you'll mess with your reeds in bad ways, but if you are talking about running a slow tap through just to dissolve the Werther's you ate right before playing it's probably fine.
Seydel says some of their harps can go through the dishwasher. The dishwasher has powerful jets, but none of them should be running straight through the holes on your harp like a tap might.
When a harp is wet, if you blow through it it will actually be a little more airtight, but only for a few seconds until you blow the water out. Like any time your harp is really airtight it might be possible to damage your harp by playing really hard. (I haven't seen that happen with water, but I think the theory is sound. The other swelling issues I have seen, and I'm not even really an old timer on harp. I've only been playing for about 10 years.)
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STME58
1989 posts
Jun 17, 2017
9:50 AM
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I had a 7 draw on a D Manji that would not sound at a gig last night. A quick run under the tap followed by a few taps in the palm to get the water and the obstruction out, and the harp played fine. I don't know what causes this, or how often one aspirates whatever it is that causes reeds to stick like this.
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dougharps
1475 posts
Jun 17, 2017
10:06 AM
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A Manji comb won't swell. Aside from possible long term corrosion issues, I would agree that in such a situation a quick rinse is worth trying. I think rinsing a sealed comb harp when there is an issue is acceptable practice. I think you get them cleaner with disassembly, but when you need it to play, you do what works at that time.
I just do not agree with the "soaking" per Tony Glover's book.
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Doug S.
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nowmon
123 posts
Jun 17, 2017
11:15 AM
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I`d say them Chicago cat`s were more into chick`s then,rather than pre-setting up harps.It ain`t the meat it`s the motion.they were into the language more than all this assembley.LIKE A gospel or soul singer ,reach for heaven, even though you`re on earth.......
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hvyj
3326 posts
Jun 17, 2017
1:50 PM
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Soaking harps is a discredited practice. To CLEAN harps, get a small ultrasonic jewelry cleaner which are very inexpensive on eBay. Fill it with warm water. Add a tiny bit of ammonia OR a little Sterisol Concentrate (which is a brass and woodwind mouthpiece cleaner available on line and is very inexpensive).
Put harps in one at a time and leave it in the ultrasonic cleaner for a couple of cycles. Then remove it and rinse thoroughly with warm water. Tap the harp aganst a towel or your pants leg holes down to get the water out. Then GENTLY blow and suck the excess water out of the harp by GENTLY playing it and then leave it out to dry.
When the water gets dirty, change it. Don't leave harps to soak in the cleaner after it stops.
This won't harm any harp or any comb and it will rejuvenate your instruments. They will play better and sound better. Often locked up or jammed reeds will loosen and become playable again and your harps will usually sound more in tune.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jun 17, 2017 2:04 PM
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Cotton
94 posts
Jun 17, 2017
2:07 PM
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I have all plastic or composite comb harps. I use a cheap ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Frieght. Warm water and a few denture clean tablets. Run cycle a few times, rinse, blow dry.
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SuperBee
4743 posts
Jun 17, 2017
2:57 PM
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Yeah Winslow, I don't doubt the comb would swell, I just have doubt that would make the harp play better. But I do understand that once you've swelled the comb one time there's potential to have actually pushed the construction apart and then have to keep soaking in future.
I think it was david Payne who told me that soaking advice was in a manufacturers pamphlet. Because I floated the idea of glover being confused and starting the practice with his story in blues harp. And I remember being convinced about the story I was told, which I expect means I either saw the evidence or that he was able to cite a detailed reference I could not refute.
Because I feel strongly about the practice, that it's only ever a bad idea to soak an unsealed comb.
I had this idea that taking (especially a nailed) harp and giving it a quick bath and tapping it out before and after playing would likely be an ok idea. (I wish some of the people who send me harps to repair would do that.) I was sure this would be how the practice started.
But mr Payne assured me I was wrong. Now I'll probably have to chase that reference down.
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hvyj
3327 posts
Jun 17, 2017
3:30 PM
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When I first started playing I always soaked my harps and it dramatically improved the compression (airtightness), response and overall playability. Of course, it also eventually caused the teeth of the combs to swell which was pretty uncomfortable. These were Marine Band harmonicas and were extremely leaky instruments to the point of being almost unplayable if you didn't soak them to make the comb swell. Then I discovered Special 20s which were far superior instruments and much more airtight. Nothing to be gained by soaking a plastic comb anyway so the soaking stopped.
The moral of the story for me has been that Marine Bands are crappy instruments. MBDs and XOs are decent, but over the next 3+ decades I have never bought a MB again and find it perplexingly amusing that there are not only people who buy them and play them, but there are those who actually prefer them over the myriad of other alternatives now available. But, to each his own, I guess.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jun 17, 2017 3:39 PM
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SuperBee
4744 posts
Jun 17, 2017
3:49 PM
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Yeah I play them and I can tell you that not only is the swelling issue dealt with by the post 2011 fully sealed comb, but also there is no real difference between a mb1896 and a mb deluxe. Same comb, same reed plates, same covers, same tuning.
Ok, the comb on a deluxe has the tines chamfered and a dab of lacquer to make them shiny-smooth. Maybe the seams in the covers are a little more closed but it's really not noticeable. The main difference is the construction and even there, there is something to be said for the nails. Just takes a bit of practice to learn how to deal with the nails and there are lots of them.
30 years ago, yes the marine band was in trouble. But there's really no comparison with a pre 1995 marine band and the modern product.
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hvyj
3328 posts
Jun 17, 2017
3:58 PM
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@SB: well, I'll take your word for it. Btw, on the mixed set of XO's and MBDs I acquired for no particularly good reason I swapped out all the pear wood combs for bamboo anyway.
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nowmon
124 posts
Jun 17, 2017
4:33 PM
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I`ll grab a marine band A with nothing done to it, and honk on it more than anything messed with.I never had a problem with makin` it squank !!!!
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chrisjaybecker
10 posts
Jun 17, 2017
5:02 PM
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Thanks for all the input. In spite of the thread's title, I don't actually SOAK harmonicas i.e. soak them in a jar overnight like they were grandpappy's dentures. I've mostly just used water to CLEAN harps, and I've limited that to plastic-combed harps only.
The reason I know first hand about the teeth swelling is that one of my first harps was a pre-1965 Marine Band, which soaked. The teeth swelled out past the reed plates and had to be trimmed flush with a razor blade (ALSO a lo Tony Glover.) Never again.
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groyster1
2960 posts
Jun 19, 2017
1:45 AM
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I have never soaked harps and never will......no benefit to that at all
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jbone
2304 posts
Jun 19, 2017
7:33 AM
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Warm water gentle rise here mostly. No unsealed wood combs any more except a couple of MB's from the stone age. If a rinse does not do it I will disassemble the harp and clean it more meticulously. 91% alcohol, a thin metal strip, and a lint free cloth. Occasionally a bit of something gets under the reed or in the slot on one side, these come loose with the metal strip. Alcohol dissolves a lot. So does simple warm water. Lint free cloth to dry and polish. Plus a good blow out of the plates with a puff of breath.
Dried saliva on a reed will drop the pitch and you may think you have a reed going bad. So it's a good idea to keep the harps cleared out. Hair, bits of food, lint if you carry a harp loose in a pocket, these all will mess with a reed.
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Georgia Blues
239 posts
Jun 19, 2017
2:54 PM
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Can't tell you how much I hate soaking wooden combs. I think I have a whole new set of lips from trying to play soaked harps that just cut the crap out of you mouth. Why use wood anymore aside of course for the lovely woody tone quality. But really??
Last Edited by Georgia Blues on Jun 19, 2017 2:55 PM
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groyster1
2961 posts
Jun 20, 2017
5:33 AM
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as far as tone,it comes from cover plates and reeds.....not the comb
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1847
4227 posts
Jun 22, 2017
4:18 PM
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Call my mother inlaw honey……
Check out the harps here at 1:21 they look to have been soaked many times.
Watch how hard buddy has to work to get the band to turn way down at 1:33
Last Edited by 1847 on Jun 22, 2017 4:22 PM
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groyster1
2962 posts
Jun 22, 2017
5:13 PM
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okay.....soaking the marine bands.....made the wood swell.....creating somewhat of a seal.....also made tines protude......and trying to get dead skin cells out with toothpick.....moved the tines and destroying the harp.....what a dumbass practice
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Kerry
2 posts
Jun 22, 2017
5:35 PM
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I always take the reed plates off before soaking, I'm talking SP20s and Maji's. I've never done that with a Marine Band.
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hot4blues
52 posts
Jul 03, 2017
5:22 PM
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Is Neil Young reading all this? I know at one time he'd soak his harps during concerts.
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