I've never played a country tuned diatonic and was wondering if you would play a G harp if the country song is in G ? We play more than a few country tunes and I thought adding a little harp to a couple of songs would be cool. Thanks Lou
A country tuned harp is made to play in 2nd position (in the key of D on a G harp). The difference between a country tuned harp and a regular harp is that the 5 draw reed is raised a half step, allowing you to play a major scale in 2nd position, including the major 7th note of the scale (which is the retuned 5 draw reed). So you get the missing note needed to play many melodies like Danny Boy, Somewhere Over The Rainbow, etc.
There's nothing really "country" about the country tuning. I think it's referred to as such because Charlie McCoy popularized it back in the day. Some manufacturers refer to it as major 7th tuning (which makes a little more sense in my opinion).
Todd's right - "country tuning" is not the best name, because it is useful for jazz, pop, folk, rock, and country... anytime you want to play a major scale in crossharp.
You don't actually lose a note, because the 5 draw can be bent on a country tuned harp to get the usual 5 draw of a standard richter harp. I have a few SP20s in CT, and I use them pretty often.
Manji also comes in "7th" tuning, which gives you the country 5 draw, and also similarly raises the 9 draw a 1/2 step. So a C harp will play F# in holes 5 and 9 draw.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jun 14, 2017 1:49 PM
Huang called them "Jazz Harps" when tuned that way. I still have 5 of them. I also created 5 Lee Oskar harps with raised 5 and 9 draws (and 5 Paddy Richter harps) by swapping top plates from Melody Makers with regular Lee Oskar Richter tuned harps.
1847 is right, you don't need a country tuned harp to play country. I use regular Richter tuned harps for country almost all of the time. My alternately tuned harps usually stay home unless I have specific need of them for a song.
The Major Pentatonic scale doesn't include the 4th or 7th, so you can play major pentatonic without a retuned harp. However, some melodies or chords may use those notes. Usually you can substitute other chord notes and avoid the flat 7.
But, if you want to play a melody that includes the Major 7th while playing in 2nd position, you need a harp tuned that way or you need to overblow the 5 blow so you can play the major 7th.
Smokey Joe Leone who is mainly known around SPAH for his chromatic work has reported that he independently derived this tuning many, many years ago so he could play Doo Wop songs. This tuning can be useful for specific single note lines on melodies, but as noted in the video above, it will change the chords you may be used to playing.
Alternate tunings can be useful, but for general purposes I find that a Richter can get the job done most of the time. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 14, 2017 2:50 PM
One of my biggest gripes with regard to harmonica in general and the blues specifically is using the note in question over a chord that contains a different note. On a C harp, the note is F (on hole 5 draw), and the chord is D7 (or D, or God help us all, D major seventh). The blues is all right, until you pull that shit. Sorry, maybe it's just me. I wish Suzuki didn't call the tuning "7th tuning", it's totally misleading. On that C harp, it's an F#, it's the major seventh of the cross key, but Suzuki labels these harps for first position. They didn't ask me first! The chords are great on a "Lydian tuned" harmonica (for that is what raising the 5 draw and hopefully 9 draw as well accomplishes). Draw G chord on the bottom, blow C everythere, and on holes 4 5 6, a nice draw D chord. Thank you Jesus. If you can overblow, you can play all the right notes with a standard tuned harmonica. But unless you are very talented, those chords are going to be wrong. That's why I favor altered tuned harmonicas.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 14, 2017 3:49 PM
To give due credit, it was Todd Parrott who brought the issue of being careful about not creating unintentional dissonance with chord notes to my attention a few years ago. I have thought about it a lot since then and try to keep it in mind.
People who have not played much keyboard or guitar or who don't understand chord construction very well (like me) really need to focus on this. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 14, 2017 4:39 PM
Thanks for all the info. I've got a long road ahead when it comes to learning how to become a harp player. I thought I saw on Lee Oskar web site where the tell you there "country" tuned harps are made to play in the 1st position which I thought odd if theres only 1/2 step change in one hole. I get where it would help in some melody playing while still playing in 2nd position. Maybe I mis read what it said on the Lee Oskar site.
Of course, Melody Maker gives you the F# notes on 5 and 9 draw along with the "Paddy" note on hole 3 blow, an A instead of the duplicated G.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 14, 2017 10:15 PM
Re blues tonality My view is that Blues doesn't follow the rules of tonality and harmony/dissonance that "Western music" does.
I use the 5 draw against the V; it's a blues scale tone and the minor third of the chord. To my ears this sounds natural in a blues context, but I would generally avoid this note if I was playing a more generic major folk or country song (where I would avoid it on the I chord as well). I haven't come across a blues song with a V7maj however this would be a flag that the song is very major.
So I think that the main problem is often blues harp players applying the blues harmony rules to non-blues music. I play in an Americana band where in some songs the 5 draw is very seldom used. I need to get some more Country-tuned harps!
I have heard that in blues the main avoid notes a semi-tone above any of the chord tones. Seems a reasonable rule of thumb although I use the fourth against the I chord quite often.
Last Edited by GamblersHand on Jun 14, 2017 11:25 PM
@Gnarly I still want one of these 7th Manjis and I saw your vid about converting them to melody maker tuning. I need one for bluegrass which is like 75% in G.
So, you'd prefer to have them labeled Lee Oskar style (2nd position)?
I don't see why I'd get the country tuning instead of the 7th because you get the F# octave with the 7th.
@Gnarly I don't think Lee Oskars (and Tombos) come in Country Tuning. The Special 20, Manji, and Session Steel do... Rockin Ron should have all three.
Suzuki sells CT Olives in Japan.
The Manji 7th is a bit harder to find, but I agree with @ValleyDuke, I would prefer it with the 9 hole draw also raised. I'm surprised Seydel and Hohner are not doing the same.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jun 15, 2017 12:46 AM
Another way to look Country / 7th tuned harps is that they make each position's scale more reminiscent of "one lower" ie 2nd position more like 1st, 3rd more like 2nd
I have a CT C harp which is great for 3rd position major key blues in D. You now get the blue third possibilities on the 5 draw, which I find makes it a lot more fun and more bluesy (normal Richter 3rd can be a little too dark sometimes).
It's also great for getting a handle on 5th position minor as the 5 draw is no longer an avoid note.
@ValleyDuke I want customers to know how to buy what they want. Names help them do that-- It's just like styles of music, players are less concerned with names than the people promoting the music. I am a great resource on this stuff, but not everybody knows to ask me. 800-854-1594 x4410 Tuesday thru Thursday if you have any questions on these altered tuned Manji harps-- I like Lee Oskar harps but prefer ours.
I was a little surprise to see that Melody Maker only comes in 5 keys. I find it pretty easy to convert to this tuning, tho . . .
GamblersHand said, "So I think that the main problem is often blues harp players applying the blues harmony rules to non-blues music. I play in an Americana band where in some songs the 5 draw is very seldom used."
I agree. It's a good idea to experiment with different styles and learn what works well and what doesn't.
For those of you who are interested in country tuned harps, it's extremely easy to tune your harp yourself to country tuning, even if you're not good at working on your own harps. It might be a good idea to tune up an old harp first and see if you like it before buying a new harp. Got an old Bluesband lying around? Turn it into a country tuned harp. All you really need is a file, a small piece of paper to slide underneath and support the 5 draw reed, and a perhaps a Korg tuner - or even an app on your phone.
Gnarly, I had it wrong I thought the Melody Maker was being called country tuned & the way they label it confused me (which is real easy to do) a G Melody Maker would be played in key of G. I think I might try one out & see how it goes. Lou
