For best acoustic resonance in playing harmonica, opening the throat helps with tone. For example, what I call the "Pre Yawn Attitude" addresses this aspect. When you yawn (or even pretend yawn), you will feel your throat open up all around. It feels good and you can hold the muscles gently to keep the throat open. This is a technique used to give voice resonance to, for instance, News Anchors and voice professionals. You can experience this yourself by talking while you start to yawn.
By understanding where these throat muscles are and how you control them, it becomes easy to add this aspect to how you approach playing the harmonica.
Engage these muscles gently and play. If you are able to also bend notes, it is most likely tongue placement that allows it, as your throat muscles are busy with that pre yawn attitude.
This helps students understand how to separate muscle control into individual entities rather than one big bundle that feels like only throat. It is subtle at first, but does open up a world of possibilities and understanding of these techniques. ---------- The Iceman
My neice, a degreed musician who teaches it for a living came to visit recently. She plays the piano & the oboe professionally. Long story short, she know her shit about being a musician but had no experience with a harmonica.
When I showed her a harmonica and played it for her, she reinforced many of the concepts Iceman mentioned above - which are things Barbecue Bob always says as well. Especially playing soft, because it makes the transition between inhaling and exhaling easier & thus breath control more precise. But one term she used was new to me and very informative. She said that the changing of notes (bending) needs to happen with movements of the "soft palate" at the back of the throat. For some reason the idea of "soft palate" really helps me focus on those slight movements that make bends better. Brian Purdy uses a similar concept, but not that exact phrase.
Last Edited by Sundancer on May 30, 2017 4:50 PM
The soft palate moves up to block air from moving through the nasal passages when you blow up a balloon or play the harmonica.
When I started using a CPAP (Continuous Positive Air Pressure) machine to counteract sleep apnea, the first thing I experienced was the incoming air blasting the soft palate and pushing the nasal passages open; took me awhile to learn to control that.
The soft palate not only is movable, it consists of muscular tissue:
Do you control the soft palate muscles, moving them in order to create bends or consciously use them in any way to control any technique used in playing harmonica, beyond closing the nasal passage to improve air efficiency? ---------- The Iceman
I did learn something interesting, though, when I decided to work on throat vibrato during sustained bent notes.
When I first addressed this, I had a problem: When I tried to apply throat vibrato to bent notes, the bend would break up.
At first I tried using diaphragm pulsation to add an undulation to the tone. But after awhile I noticed that I could add throat pulsation without pitch variation, which allowed me to hold the bent note undisturbed.
When I checked out what was happening, I noticed that my throat vibrato actually consisted of two separate elements:
- Variations of intensity, gated by the glottis (vocal cords)
- Variations in pitch, created with the back part of the tongue in apposition to the soft palate.
By unbundling the bend part of the vibrato, I could apply throat pulsation to bent notes.
So much great information from the Iceman on this thread and the other thread about the 3 hole draw bends!
I thought I had sort of mastered the basics of bending when I could get all 3 bends on an A or G harp, but when I started using my C harp more I was struggling and realized my technique wasn't half as good as I thought ...
I was thinking that I bend from the throat like Groyster and others, but when I started to focus on tongue movement I realized that it's really the tongue that makes the bend and focusing on it made my bends more consistent. I could now take the part of my technique that actually worked and transfer it to the C harp (so much for unbundling). Also the pre yawn attitude helped greatly to improve my tone especially on the hole 3 half tone bend which I was struggling most with.
I play mainly tongue blocked, never could get stable bends with pucker. But now with a clear image of the necessary tongue movement I can bend consistently also puckering. And I use U-block for the highest blow bends and overblows and discovered that the same tongue movement that works for draw bends works for blow bends and overblows as well and I even was able to get my first hole 7 overdraw with the same technique on one of my better setup harps. Which confirms the Iceman's saying that overblows are not more difficult, just different ...
Clearly it will still take some work to make all of that "second nature", but I would like to thank the Iceman for putting me on the right track.
here is some really cool stuff.... it not only relates to the subject at hand, but also, can help with vocals. very, very good things to learn here. keep an open mind.
hanes - I'm happy that you've found value from my personal approach to harmonica technique.
It's never too late to re-examine what is really going on internally when creating notes through bending and make adjustments to improve efficiency and understanding.
Always strive to find the simplest approach as well as eliminating unnecessary tension and movement.
When you pop out the other end, you may very well say to yourself "why was I making something so simple so difficult?"
I find Iceman's approach helpful, because it focuses on what to do. And in language I can understand. e.g. yawning.
That's in contrast to people talking about underlying mechanisms. They might be right or wrong, but it's not especially helpful. And I'm suspicious as to how right they are anyway. Being a excellent musician doesn't automatically make anyone an expert on physiology, acoustics, electronics or physics - as is often demonstrated on this forum :)
Soft Palate? I didn't know anything of it BH (Before Harmonica). But from the start, we're told to use it to firmly shut off the nose when playing. Maybe it is used for bending, but I think someone would have to explain how.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jun 02, 2017 5:16 AM
Took me a while to re find this thread. I wanted to mention my wife also sings in vocal competitions, degree in music etc. It seems every time she goes to a new coach ,they'll have a different way to basically do the same things. Each with their own way to reach the same final note for example. I think mostly we've learned there are many ways to sing or play a note..'vocal production' they call it. I think the same for harp...many ways to get a note...sometimes several ways within the same song to add flavor or texture to it. ...as we learned from one friend, even the attachment points of our tongue in our mouths can vary from person to person. Hence one reason what works for one person may be hard to understand why the other person can't just do it or it comes out different etc. Whistling is probably one best know example..some can but some can't...just the way things are sometimes..
Last Edited by Spderyak on Jun 13, 2017 6:19 AM
maybe so, but in my experience, not one student has ever failed to grasp the bending by tongue placement when properly taught and understood, and I've taught A LOT of students over the years.
The most fun was one of my beginner students went to BluesWeek at Augusta Heritage in WV and was in the beginner class. He watched with amusement as that teacher tried to teach the students to bend without a lot of success. My student pulled one person aside who was not getting anywhere, spent 5 minutes telling him about tongue placement like I taught him, and had that guy bending right away! ---------- The Iceman
That's a good thing. I know when I look at a large group singing..you can actually see which persons neck is all tensed up and which persons neck looks relaxed..and I think that I'm seeing different teaching philosophies reflected by how much they are straining or not.
No, easy to see in any musician, no matter the instrument. Best approach is to learn to relax and disengage every single muscle in your body that is not devoted to creating the sound you are after - singing, harmonica, guitar, piano...all the same. Once you eliminate ALL unnecessary muscle tension, you can devote every ounce of energy to creating the sound.
Tonight was my new beginner students' 3rd lesson, so it was intro to bending technique. After 5 minutes, he had found the sweet spot/tongue placement and understood how to bend hole 4 inhale - from ceiling to floor - and everywhere in between. I even had him drop harmonica down, cough, raise harmonica to his mouth, place tongue in position and inhale, creating 4 hole inhale bend as an independent solid stand alone note - without swooping down to it from above.
One big breakthrough for him was when I pointed out that he was holding his arm (that held the harmonica) with the elbow out parallel to the floor. First I got him to notice this. Then I had him disengage his arm muscle so that it now hung down relaxed. Instantly, his harmonica tone and volume came up 2 notches by virtue of eliminating this unnecessary muscle tension. ---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 13, 2017 6:45 PM
Occasionally, of course, people can play the harmonicas through their noses. Every so often you see an example of that but I don't think it's ever going to catch on, but the fact people can do that is pretty interesting physiology speaking.
I was thinking, hard to see the neck when folks are playing cuz we or they hold our harps so close.
all interesting stuff though I think Deford Baily played with one hand, so interesting that it might have helped him play relaxed.
I saw Rahassan Roland Kirk a few times who played many horns plus a harp, He did a thing called circular breathing, mostly on horns but one night he did it on a harp.He blew a note and had it wavering, had this note going at least 2 min.than picked up a sax and did the same thing.amazing.....
Great thread iceman. However, I think your making a mistake in disregarding what Winslow is saying here. He shared this same bit of information with me some time ago in another conversation we were having. And even though it was not exactly pertaining to the point of that conversation .... it was not lost on me. And infact was quite the lighbulb moment.
Basically if you learn to seperate the parts of the throat and mouth that perform each function, you will have MUCH greater control over all of your techniques.
Speaking for myself.... as a beginner learning to bend I was tightening my whole throat when bending a note. This was making it impossible to use all of the parts independently. The same thing happens when one plays too hard and does not draw from the diaphragm, but instead sucks air from the mouth. They tighten their throat.
If you pay attention to what each part does and learn to seperate and only use what is needed ... you will have much greater tone, vibrato, bending, and all around general playing.
An analogy I use is pistol shooting. Alot of times when people can't hit the target or shoot tight groups, they blame the gun and/or adjust the sights. Most of the time the problem is that they are pulling or pushing the trigger left or right as they pull the trigger back.
A big reason for this is because most people grip tight with both hands and then they lose all the dexterity in their trigger finger. If you relax your trigger hand and use your opposite hand to grip tightly ... you increase your dexterity exponentially. (Try making a fist and moving your pointer finger in and out. Then relax your fist and do the same. )
The easiest way to learn this technique on harp is by focusing on your tremolo. Notice how loose your tremelo is unbent. You can easily speed it up or slow it down at will. Now hold a 2" bend. Can you do the same? You should if your only using the required parts to bend.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 15, 2017 10:04 AM
My topic is "unbundling" - meaning, separate the muscle bundles from each other and treat them individually.
You've basically restated everything I've talked about, including relaxing all unneeded musculature not directly involved in creating what you wish to create.
Of course I can add vibrato and/or tremolo to most (if not all) notes created by bending techniques. It's the tongue position that controls the pitch, leaving diaphragm, throat muscles (used in gently coughing) and any other muscles you may need to create the tremolo and vibrato.
---------- The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 15, 2017 10:50 AM
And ofcourse it's the tongue that creates the bend. I wasn't specifically talking to you. And while you briefly elude to what I'm saying, you don't quite go fully into detail.
I'm just clarifying..... not for you, but for those who don't already understand.
If what I said it useless to you, so be it, (I would hope it would be) If it helps someone else grasp the concept.... then it was worth typing
Have fun.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 15, 2017 12:37 PM
Sorry. Let me clarify .... I guess it started out sort of directed at you and groysters comments right after Winslows second comment. It seemed no one really payed much attention to it. And it was a comment that actually helped me a great deal. So I thought i should elaborate .... but not for your sake, but for the sake of those that don't grasp this concept yet. So then it kindof went in another direction.
I think people who already unerstand know exactly what your saying.... But for those that don't all they see us "seperate the parts .... seperate the parts."
WHAT PARTS?!?!?.. (I'm sure is what they are thinking. )
So I was merely trying to elaborate and help identify some of those parts.
It's really hard to go into too much detail when typing in a stupid smartphone. But what Winslow is saying is ... if your NOT separating those parts .. you are likely going to have trouble with certain techniques. Bent tremelo/vibrato being one of them.
The easiest way to clearly see if you are separating these parts is by attempting to control your tremelo while holding a bend .. and learn to control your tremelo as well as you can with a plain unbent note.
Your tremelo should be able to Bounce free and not be effected by any other muscles.
So to demonstrate this I would start with a fast tremelo on an unbent note .. then slow the tempo down very gradually and evenly to a very slow bpm. Then speed back up again. This shows you have free unrestricted control over your tremelo. (Which is fairly easy unbent and I think everyone can do )
Now try to do the same thing while holding a bent note. If you can't, this means your parts are NOT seperate.
So focus on the part that is active during your unbent tremelo. Then hold the bend and try to free that part from the "cluster" if you will.
I think this is one great exercise to get you using only the parts you need. And it will greatly increase many aspects of your playing.
Next comes opening the throat in the yawn fashion during a normal note. Then trying not to effect it when you bend or do other techniques. And so on until you have separate control over every part of the "cluster".
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 15, 2017 2:13 PM
