For some reason, I have a problem with a thread ending with the assertion that Buddy Guy doesn't care about his live sound and he has the most shit buzz saw tone in concert ever. And then you have the termini to say it pains you to say it?
You know what pains me? Reading senseless comments like yours and worse, your inevitable response justifying your opinion.
The TRUTH is Buddy Guy is the greatest living blues treasure alive today. period. He could play thru a MM and sound great.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on May 10, 2017 9:10 AM
Perhaps there's not a lot of experience on this site with Chinese business? Because if there was, y'all would know that it is extremely common for Chinese factories to push the name brand product they make out one door and their own un-branded knock off out another. At much lower prices because they've been able to skip out on expenses for R&D, marketing, transport and warranties. Take a trip to Beijing or HK and see it for yourself.
So be careful what conclusions you draw from all this. And beware that one day they figure out how to make the product your company sells.
Last Edited by Sundancer on May 10, 2017 1:51 PM
I don't have a video but I heard BG live a couple years ago and his tone was pdg imho. Just a shame he didn't play any songs. I was still quite entertained but I'd already seen Cotton and Musselwhite that evening and my partner was getting a bit restless by the end and I was getting some bad abdominal pain so it wasn't a great experience. By the end of the show I was getting pretty worried about this gut pain, it was quite intense. I started thinking maybe I better find a hospital, but I went back to the hotel and found a bit of relief by laying down and pulling my knees up towards my chest. After a few minutes of this I farted like a horse and the pain disappeared. Apparently downing ice cold bourbon and cola in a hurry will give you gas.
Sundancer, I too have done business in China and have been engaged with manufacturing and buying products to be rebranded. I am not one for superlatives, but I would wager I have forgotten more than the original poster knows about doing business in China. But those facts don't matter as opinion has already been formed and that person is not interested in being educated, just being heard. pity....you can a lot at this forum if you want .....
Sundancer, I too have done business in China and have been engaged with manufacturing and buying products to be rebranded. I am not one for superlatives, but I would wager I have forgotten more than the original poster knows about doing business in China. But those facts don't matter as opinion has already been formed and that person is not interested in being educated, just being heard. pity....you can a lot at this forum if you want .....
6sn7 ... your pretty mouthy there big guy. You can say whatever you want in this forum, "this poster" would love to hear how mouthy you are in person.
Perhaps we ll find out one day.
I'll bet it ll include alot of back peddling and fast talking. Lol.
Oh yea and just a little FYI .... these items have been on this page longer than Rick has offered them for harp.
Unless they also have a Chinese time machine, how do you explain that one? Beings that you know so much and all.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 11, 2017 7:35 PM
I have no dog in this fight, but perhaps it's worth any extra money just for the warranty and up-front QA that the Memphis labeled amp would receive. I've heard from people in China that products intended for domestic use can be of lower quality do to parts substitutions. e.g. Huawei smartphones or DJI drones. Is this the case for amps? I have no idea.
I don't know why this amp stirs up all these emotions, but I think it's helpful that Killa posted the original info. People can decide for themselves.
SuperBee summed it all up correctly IMO. Including the pros and cons. It's also likely that an 'amp with a name' has a better 2nd-hand value. That's the power of marketing.
Personally I find a 5W amp of no use, and I do have one! (not a MM). But there is clearly a market. Perhaps he should sell an add-on kit of drum silencer pads and pillows to put in front of the guitar amps.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 12, 2017 3:49 AM
The thing that urks me most is the users of this amp who defend it to the death and don't believe it's anything other than the greatest invention of all time. And will attack anyone who says differently.
If you bought one and your happy with it,that's cool. Do you. But it still is what it is. And isn't what it isn't.
I have no dog in this fight either. I'm just tired of being attacked and called a liar for telling exactly what this amp is. So decide for yourself.
I wonder at $450 plus dollars how many of these have been sold? And what is the target market?
I own a zoo2 , a Gibson Skylark and an an Oahu whose total investment was less than $500 Each is also great for recording guitar which is what I use them for most , work well with harp if needed and hold their value.
Just saw a nice 3 watt Danelectro cadet in Guitar Center of all places for $165
people are dreaming if 5 watt amps are good for more than recording or a coffee house situation
I believe the MM founder was a proponent of you gotta go big or go home-guess its hard to sell big amps
But hey if it floats you boat it aint hurting anybody 6sn7 is kinda of a weak tube better off with RCA 5692 if you can find one
@ Goldbrick. RCA 5692 is too expensive but then again, you're made of gold, thanks for the tip, I'll past it on to Buddy Guy. peace out
Last Edited by 6SN7 on May 12, 2017 7:29 AM
Not sure where you are looking but the last time I checked ( about a year ago) a tested red base RCA was about a C note
On the other hand they are generally prized for smooth response and xtra long life.
When I was a kid my dad was an engineer at RCA in Camden NJ, a tech on American Bandstand in the old Philly Market St Studios and did hifi repair so we had a basement full of tubes. He always felt that good tube sound began with a quality transformer and that is usually the weakest component in modern tube amps
At age 90 he is still a good source for tube info-- the Navy taught them well back in the day
@Goldbrick "people are dreaming if 5 watt amps are good for more than recording or a coffee house situation"
I'd disagree with that to a point. I play a 7W amp at most gigs and jams without lining out to the p.a.
It works though I'd agree there's a quick tipping point when it would get drowned out
Here's a clip from a jam at a fairly small bar in London. You can see the Marble Max in shot. Harp at around 1.45. It sounds adequate to my ears, and there was still some headroom as I recall
Goldbrick is correct, the red base ones are the desired tube. Being serious here a second Goldbrick, the 5692 is a long life tube, do you think that would translate to a better sounding tube?
Mavel tov to your dad, mine is 92 and we're going fishing today
Maybe the 29$ 5692 is a rebranded Chinese made tube (har dee har har)
@ gamblers hand . Sure you could gig with 5 watts if you had too. Perfect placement controlling the drummer etc But why ?? A bigger amp gives more control of your situation I could hunt deer with a .22 (where legal) and try and make the perfect eye or neck shot but again a treinta- treinta is a better tool for the job The drummer is just playing side stick with his hand on the drumhead and not much cymbal-that keeps his volume wat down @6sn7
RCA designed 5692 for industrial use-supposedly it was more uniform, sturdier ( support rods make it less likely to be microphonic) For Hi Fi it was a marketed as a premium tube that would dergrade in sound less quickly than a 6sn7.
That doesnt mean it would necessarily sound " better" if you pitted a new 6sn7 against a new 5692 but it is likely the 5692 maintains its quality over a much longer time period and thats why it is prized . wanna sound good everyday on tour?--5692 was the way to go
sorry for the long winded reply
Last Edited by Goldbrick on May 12, 2017 2:54 PM
Just when you think your out they pull you back in...
Okay, first, let's reluctantly talk again about some basic guideline for how you can and can't talk about someone's product.
Can you say an amp sounds like ass? Absolutely. If you've heard it and you think it sounds like ass that's a valid opinion. You can also say it sounds like a choir of angels.
Can you say an amp is made in China? Well, lots of things are made in China, and if you can find an amp that looks exactly like it you may well have identified the manufacturer.
Can you say it's the same amp? At this point I've got to say you need a little more evidence. You have to actually compare them side by side. Can you say that an amp is just a rebranded version of the manufacturer's amp? I think, unless you have set one of each down next to each other and had a look at their innards at that point you are on rocky ground, and simply implying it rather than coming out and saying it directly may not be enough to skirt responsibility for your comments. (Again, like in the other thread, at this point I'm talking about libel rules, not simple forum rules).
One scenario- It's an amp that had a different name slapped on it.
Another- It's an amp that is modified from its original form to conform to Rick's performance needs. And the amp is or is not the same as the other amp on offer.
If I was an amp manufacturer and someone said 'hey, I'd like you to modify this amp you make and slap my brand name on it' I'd be happy to do that. If those modifications were good and they didn't drive the costs up too much and I lived in a country that doesn't do much with IP rights I probably would, as other people said, sell them out the back door with my own badge on them. (Well, not me personally. I don't think that's a great thing ethically, and in the long term it's probably counterproductive because other people who might want to get me to make versions of their amps might not want to do business with me.) Or again, these could be amps that are modified to be different. Like Rick has said he wanted it to sound good for harp. Harp is just a small portion of the market and what sounds good on harp may not sound good on guitar or kazoo. (And keep in mind, if the amp manufacturer is selling amps with Rick's modifications that's on them, not Rick.)
And that is all assuming that it is the same manufacturer. The amps look alike. That just means that they have some cover components in common. That can happen just do to supply chains.
One caveat about the above... it's fine to state that you don't like something, but starting threads that are going to hurt someone's business adds a lot of negativity to the forum, particularly when it's done with innuendo or obvious anger.
There was a guy some time back who was selling gold plated harmonica covers. Under normal playing conditions they started to flake almost immediately. He wasn't marketing them as show pieces; they were marketed as play improving (easy on the lips or something like that) and he wasn't being responsible about refunding/repairing an obviously defective product. Something like that, if you have tried getting refunds and people are just being lousy about it... absolutely, that sort of stuff is fair game to post. If something doesn't work, or someone doesn't deliver what they promised, this is information that we should share. The guy who was still taking money for cases he wasn't making anymore, even if someone is just really slow with turnaround and it takes way longer to get your product that's reasonable to mention (when it happens, or when someone else brings a similar problem up on the forum or asks 'is this dealer reliable'?)
If this thread had started-
'Hey look, I think I found amps that look like Rick's amps, maybe his manufacturer? And you can get them cheaper- caveat they look the same but I haven't listened to them side by side. I don't like the sound of Rick's amps but other people seem to'
Then that's fine. That's giving information that's useful, and giving an opinion fairly.
I know Rick rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I know he's had some issues with the forum (some of them were at least partially my fault, but that's a story for another day). I've got some stories I've heard that imply he can be a jerk, but all that said, I haven't heard any complaints about people getting their amps, or the amps not working. People's taste in amps is highly subjective and a lot of people do seem to like them.
I'm separating this part out because I think it needs to be dealt with separately. Killa and 6SN7, I'm going to call you both out on your comments in this thread that broke the forum rules. I'm going to ask both of you to refrain from posting in this thread anymore. (That's the closest thing to locking the thread I can do without locking the thread.)
Killa, your remark...
"6sn7 ... your pretty mouthy there big guy. You can say whatever you want in this forum, "this poster" would love to hear how mouthy you are in person.
Perhaps we ll find out one day.
I'll bet it ll include alot of back peddling and fast talking. Lol."
That to me crosses a different line and though, with my moderators hat on I've got to say that when a remark can be read as a physical threat, whether that was the intent or not, then we have to do something about it. I'm going to confer with Adam and decide if a suspension is in order.
Edit- And no taking the argument into other threads. That will definitely lead to suspensions.
Buddy Guy = most overrated bluesman of all time. He may be the greatest blues cartoon of all time, though. ----------
Last Edited by JInx on May 15, 2017 8:53 AM
Jinx - You should probably brush up on your blues history. Buddy was featured on a ton of historic blues recordings. His music stands the test of time.
Jinx you might not like Buddy Guy, but wow you couldn't be more wrong! One little example many people don't know! The song "One Way Out" By Sonny Boy 2 and made famous by the Allman Bros. The lick Duane Allman played, who was the originator of that lick?
What Jlnx said in spades. Couldn't have captured it better. Paid good money to see him several years ago and Jinx put together the best two sentence review of that show. I don't care about the history, which famous riff he authored. That...show....sucked. Time for him to hang it up.....period. "Greatest blues cartoon of all time"......perfect.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on May 17, 2017 12:24 PM
The last two times that I saw Buddy Guy, he sounded great and played nothing but straight ahead Blues. There was no screwing around. He sounded exactly the same as he did the first time that I saw him in the early 1980's.
None of this diminishes his impact on music history since the 1950's. He has been highly influential to generations of musicians.
@Goldbrick Again Buddy Guys influence! Even Elmore James was coping his licks! Look into what year each were recorded. I agree Dwayne played it more in the Elmore James style (only because they both played slide).
But apart from that, the Elmore James record was made well before the Buddy Guy record. The original Sonny Boy record was released around the same time as the Elmore James record but it's a different groove, more like a box pattern iirc. The Buddy Guy record was recorded in 63, sounds like he's taken the James lick and given it the Buddy Guy treatment. I think the James record is more like 61
@chromatic Not sure what you hear but if I recall Buddy plays a staccato box pattern over a rhumba- nothing like Elmore or Duane= In fact he is really playing a bass player part. Duane plays legato like elmore Elmore had a distinct limited style mostly in open tunings- I dont think he could play like Buddy if he tried.
Buddy certainly has a place in Blues history-fine acoustic player ,great sideman with Muddy and junior and a showman on his own
Dunno what allmans record you're listening to brick, but those I hear are much more reminiscent of that later Sonny Boy record than the Elmore James record.
this is on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-65-Princeton-120v-60HZ-AMP-NO-RESERVE-/322510996043?hash=item4b1727424b:g:-JcAAOSwrhBZBIcj bids end in one hour. ---------- .
One of Fender's more irritating marketing ploys; produce a 20 w (or whatever) solid state amp and give it a name almost the same as one of your most sought-after famous products.
So if you build a champ clone in the states and you use all Chinese parts is that Considered American made? I would think the Chinese are pretty good at soldering parts.If that is all you did all day, even after one day you would get pretty good at it.
It has been enjoyable to come in at the end of this thread (and I hope it ends soon) and see all the back and forth, the emotional attachment to particular amps or vendors, opinions about endorsers (if it's free it must be "...the BEST ____ I've ever used!"), and the upset over unkind or true commentaries.
To see Silvertones (I love my 1300), and Mascos (my A17 is my favorite amp ever) discounted because they're old (yet can be fully restored and last another 60-70 years) and feeble (can't blast through loud guitars) - neither can other 5-20W amps. That's why you mic them on stage or bring a Bassman to the gunfight. I find the commentaries heartfelt and humorous.
I remember B.B. King opening for the Rolling Stones in Oakland in 1969. His amp dies in the first 10 minutes and without missing a beat, he walks forward, brings his guitar up to the mic and plays an acoustic solo for the longest 5 minutes imaginable. Sure, it was an experienced showman, but it was a good reminder - bring your tone with you and never count on an amp to define your sound. ---------- BnT
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