Is it the mic that generates crunch? I don't have lots of them, but for the ones I do have (including a ceramic element) I looked at the signal coming from the mic itself before it goes into the amp. It is greatly amplified by cupping, and the timbre changed significantly. But it's not distorted in a 'crunchy' way. It was the amp that provided crunch. More input signal resulted in more crunch.
I don't have one of those proper vintage elements, so I always wonder if the raw signal from those is actually distorted/crunchy. I can believe it might be - my thinking is that the big diaphragm on those could be affected strongly by actual static air pressure from cupping. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The only reason I'd buy one now is to find that out.
Just a thought.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 24, 2017 11:53 PM
I know the amp adds a lot of the crunch. I'll have to put some sound samples up.
I've got a little Park G10R amp that I've had for several years. Aside from some where and tear issues it's holding up pretty well. It's got two separate gains, and by turning the first one down and cranking the second one I was always able to get a ton of crunch out of a cheap little Shure Prologue 8L (and before that a different Shure Prologue, I don't remember the model number. I think the only difference is one is high impedance and the other is low. I had to run one through a pedal because it was XLR.) It's all solid state, but it gets the sound I'm looking for (and can be dialed in for a pretty wide range of sounds by adjusting the two gains/EQ/and Reverb on the amp).
I just got a new mic (the Prologue is literally falling apart). I can't get the same crunch with it (even although it's got a much better reputation as a harp mic!)
I'm still playing around with dialing it in. It may be that it's so hot compared to the Prologue that I just have to micro adjust things.
I'll try to get some samples up of what I'm looking for vs. what I'm getting.
Like Killa_Hertz said, "I'm not sure exactly what your looking for but, ..."
Older bullet mics, because that's what I use: Whatever the mic, I think the key is the element. And you can take ten 101 or 151 crystals, ten Shure CR black labels made in a particular year, or 10 CM white labels and despite the same lineage, each will have a different tone quality and output - often quite dramatic. When I rebuild mics I buy elements from one guy and I may sit there and test 10-30 elements (hooked one at a time to a mic cable with alligator clips) before I make a selection.
A good player brings 80%-85% of the tone and the mic and amp, the remainder. I want vintage tone, so I buy vintage elements. And once I have the right element, it doesn't matter whether I put it in an Astatic 200 or JT30, a Shure 520, a Turner 22D or a Webster Chicago. The mic sounds great beause of the element - "Crunch". ---------- BnT
Here are short little samples where I'm getting the sound I want. (Well, 'a' sound I want. It would be boring if that's the only sound I ever got!)
Both samples were played on my Shure Prologue 8L. (My new mic does have nice sound; I just can't dial this particular sound in on my amp.)
It may be as simple as different mics for different songs, or a pedal. I know it's a three part equation of technique, amp and mic, but the only variable that has changed is the mic -well, of course technique is not completely controllable, but when I swap back to the Prologue I get the sound I'm looking for, but the grill is shot and I can't find a replacement. (I guess another question is will other grills fit on the same stick? The part number is RK10PG, but this thing was old when I got it. I can still find the whole mics on ebay, so maybe that's the route.)
Just keep looking on eBay and Craigslist for the part. It appears that maybe the 8L and 10L shared the same grill. I've seen a couple on eBay in the $25 range for the whole mic. You might call around to some local old style electronic stores (in different towns). A few years ago I stopped in at Metro Electronics in downtown Sacramento just to look around - a store that was there for many, many years - amazed to find a Shure green bullet in a box on the shelf so long that the cardboard was yellowed and lettering faded. Then they sold it to me at a discounted price "because it's so old and we haven't been able to sell it". Lots of interesting stuff there (Naturally, they closed the biz since then). Anyway, it's just that freak find that old electronics places provide. ---------- BnT
Yeah, I think that's what I'm going to do, BnT. I wish I knew a place local where I could go in and see if other parts fit. I'd guess the gauge is probably similar across a few models, so I wonder if other grills fit. Maybe I'll put a call out on FB see if any of my local music friends have a spare parts bin I could look through. (The shape is actually a bit of a pain to hold, maybe a ball grill would work better if I could make it fit.)
James Cotton has the crunch,it doesn`t matter for AMP,MIKE.It`s the attack and player.I`ve seen J.C. at least 10 times since 1970,and it`s Him,not the equipment.
Nowmon, I generally agree that attack is the single biggest part, but like I said, I can get the sound I want with some mics. I've got it through Shure 58s through the PA at open mics. I've got it through my Shure Prologue. I even got it through an old computer mic. I just can't get it here (and for other sounds this mic is great). The sound in my video is exactly what I'm looking for, for those songs. I got it with my Prologue, with the amp I've got. If it comes down to using different mics for different songs, I can do that (although that means carrying more gear around). I've got my impedence right. I've got the gain set even farther than I would before (after trying it with the same settings didn't work). I've tried hamming up my technique in a way that should give me great distorted crunch. (Heck, it sounds crunchy before it goes into the mic, for a minute I thought I had it fixed, but it then I turned up the amp and realized it wasn't coming out of the amp that way.) The old mic, falling apart as it is (and limited in other sounds it will make) still gives me crunch.
I'm sure even Cotton tells the sound guy how to set up the EQ and gain. It may be this is one of those weird issues where Mic A doesn't play well with Amp B. I don't know. I know crunch is technique, and if you'd asked me for something I was proud about in my playing abilities it would have been crunch.
I played Cotton's rig in the 60's - a Shure 585A mic (which he gave me) through a Bassman head with 2 6x10 cabinets. Gain and EQ were not an issue at the time. That rig even allowed me to get some Cotton in my playing. -- BnT
