Having searched this forum for info on a usable tremolo effect I found very little. A while back I tried a pedal, don´t recall it´s name now, and it sounded awful. But for the Bo Diddley type guitar sound it was excellent. Still, I have some hope that there is such a thing. Anyone who cares to comment? Little Walter used the amp tremolo here, as I hear it -- I don´t think anyone is willing to claim that this is done by the throat? (Altough I and many others can produce a sort of non-electronic tremolo sound -- Dennis Gruenling is downright remarkable -- it takes, for me, at least, too much effort from the actual playing.)
Many people confuse tremolo with vibrato and they['re two entirely different things. Vibrato involves an actual pitch change of about 1/4 step and a tremolo is essentially like turning an amp on and off at a rapid (but controlled) speed. The one on this tune is from an amp, either from an early 3-10 Bandmaster or Tremolux.
Most tremolo pedals do a lousy job of this tho the one Jim Dunlop made some years back came closest to getting the sound of a real tube tremolo.
For vibrato coming out of an amp, think of a brown 4-10 Concert amp or better yet, a Magnatone amp. It's still not the same as a throat vibrato by a long shot. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
amp tremolo can be novel but the fast amplitude modulation you hear in the throat tremolos of BW, LW, and George Smith are something to aspire to in my book. It's a great sound and part of the traditional blues harp sonic spectrum that one must pursue..
Amp tremolo is no substitute (I'm not saying you were saying that Martin, just grinding my axe ;)
---------- 4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
Thank you guys, and yes, I´m aware of the tremolo/vibrato difference. I´m also aware that *if* that kind of effect could be successfully applied to the harmonica it should probably be used sparingly. But I was mostly hoping that people with any experience of particular brands of tremolo pedals could point in specific directions. As BBBob does, but the Dunlop pedal he mentions is apparently not in production anymore.
And @ slaphappy: the kind of tremolo I can produce "naturally" is a bit too cumbersome for me, also I want a bigger effect; I´m sure Dennis G has a more effortless approach, but for me it´s very tiring. (The reason LW used the amp tremolo in the instance above is, I believe it´s fair to assume, that he cold not create this sound by himself.)
Last Edited by Martin on Feb 16, 2017 6:10 AM
Regular throat tremolo I have no problem with it but really fast throat tremolo (like George Smith for exmaple) is pretty tough for me so I can relate to physical difficulty with the technique. I still think it's one of the coolest sounds though and hope you don't give up. The fact that it's hard is part of what makes it worthwhile which applies to the harp in general of course..
---------- 4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
DG, on the video above, starting about 3:40 with the B3 effect here I wouldn't quite call tremolo -but it is beyond the coolest thing ever. Like BBQ, the tremolo circuit on the early Concert is known as a great example. My main working amp (Jan. 60) is one but I don't use the tremolo at all
@slaphappy: Could you give an example of the George Smith *throat tremolo* you mention? (Just a track, think I pretty much got all his stuff.) ´Cause I suspect that you do what BBBob says above, confuse tremolo with vibrato. If I´m wrong I apologize profusely, with an appropriate tremor, but if it´s an actual tremolo you´re talking about I´d be really interested.
Thanks to tmf for the Gruenling video. And no, Littoral maybe that is more of what could be called "hysterical vibrato" than tremolo? I could have misremembered the effect, as DG does it. When I attempt to do it (and as I said above, nowhere near as good as DG) I contract my throat airwawes like a m/f, very fast, and then emphasize that with shaking/moving the harmonica on the lips. It takes effort and I can only hold it up briefly before I´m in the heart attack zone. What I want is a (mechanical) tremolo that I can use on long notes, lotsa reverb, like you´d handle a guitar, and that gives this slightly psychedelic thouch to things.
Last Edited by Martin on Feb 16, 2017 9:55 AM
If you play with a softer breath force, it's really easy to confuse a throat vibrato that's being played with an extremely soft breath force with tremolo, which a number of players, ESPECIALLY those who have a tendency to be big time gear heads often do and the classic example of this is in the very first two choruses of Big Walter Horton's classic instrumental, Easy, which is base upon the Ivory Joe Hunter tune, Almost Lost My Mind. This was heavily argued on this forum, but having personally seen and hung out with him many times during the 70's, knowing that any effects on the amp (if there were any) were ALWAYS turned off completely and it came from something most players lack, and that's breath control. Dennis is doing largely the very same thing here as well and it's ALL in the breath control while playing a throat vibrato. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
listen to the tremolo he ends choruses with at 21 seconds and again at 47 seconds. especially at 1:06 through 1:14. short one again at 1:24.. he seems to use it in most notes he hangs on. I've tried to match his speed and find it's not easy to do..
hope this helped ---------- 4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
@SlapHappy -- That's not a real tremolo at all. That's a throat vibrato, BIG TIME. The only way to control the speed is with breath control and if you play too hard, it's damned close to impossible to do so. You're confusing a throat vibrato with a tremolo, something many harp players do quite often. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
It's just under 1/4 step and with a chromatic, the windsavers can sometimes hide that and this also comes from experience with them, including doing this very tune itself. On a a diatonic, because you don't have those, it tends to get more easily pronounced. Most players don't play with a breath force SOFT ENOUGH to do this right at all. Play this with a breath as soft as you can physically manage and you'll hear it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you've never played that soft in your life, so soft that you almost can't even hear yourself play. Once you get that down, you'll find that's exactly what I described is actually happening. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Feb 16, 2017 12:11 PM
It's still the very same thing I said before and I stand by what I said 100%!!!! ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
okay, it's pretty rare that I disagree with you Bob but I honestly don't see how you can call that vibrato in the telephone blues example.
Amplitude variation with no change in pitch = tremolo. That's what I was taught.
Sorry if I caused some thread drift Martin but that's the sound I"m talking about whether you call it vibrato or tremolo. It's not that easy to achieve (at least for me) and I don't think any amp effect will ever come close. Best of luck!
---------- 4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
Thank you for the examples slaphappy. On the thread drift and vibrato/tremolo issue (something of a quagmire) I believe I´m siding with Bob, and hear this as pitch differences -- hence vibrato. But on the (much more important) question I´m entirely with you: it´s truly a great thing.
Every now and then I hear a guitar with tremolo and think "That´s just the right sound". This last time it was because I watched an episode of the TV series "The affair" when one of the characters (played by a guy called Colin Donell) is sort of gussing a wedding band and, drunkenly, starts to sing "The house of the rising son", with som slight "meaningful" alterations of the lyrics. When the electric guitar comes in on the second chorus, that tremolo effect hits the perfect spot for me:
So a question: is it a throat tremolo that Little Walter is doing starting around the 0:40 mark on She's So Pretty? Or is it a combination of techniques? Just wondering how to go about beginning to emulate it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ziwP7DvNo
There are a few LW cuts with added tremolo. Not many but a few. To make it more confusing, a few players call throat vibrato tremulant believing that it more accurately describes what’s happening with harp playing
