Yeah good stuff I suppose .. but isn't he really just reiterating facts that we all have known about for years? You'd have to have lived under a rock to not of read about the impact on record sales re File sharing sites etc. The whole thing imo is old news. So music is a tough industry to make a living in...now that you can be your own producer,engineer and publicist who now needs to pay someone (quote) a $100 000+ per album. The ultimate irony is that at the end of the video(after dissing job opportunities) he puts his spiel out about his 'course' in Audio,Production etc etc. Nice Guy but a dinosaur. So the world has changed and not only in the music industry..adapt or............?
I don't remember watching another video where a producer who has had #1 songs sits and calmly talks to the camera about the actual sales and $$$ at the high end (rare million-selling albums now vs 10-15 million selling albums around year 2000). I also don't ever remember hearing the perspective of the producer and the guy who runs, and works in, the recording studio, rather than the musician.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jan 11, 2017 3:55 AM
"I also don't ever remember hearing the perspective of the producer and the guy who runs, and works in, the recording studio, rather than the musician."
I'm currently reading the 2016 edition of "Confesions of a Record Producer" by Moses Avalon. It goes in to lots of detail about how hard it is for even popular acts with major label deals to make money off records.
Good analysis backed up by interesting facts and figures from someone with credibility. Yes it's not news, but good to hear it all put together coherently in one talk.
The pace of change in all aspects of work since the digital revolution began is extraordinary - musicians are not the only ones having to constantly adapt and reinvent to survive! But because our main product switched from analogue forms (vinyl, tape) to digital (CD, MP3 downloads, streaming), we have been especially affected. Same thing with books and movies, they are in a similar flux.
The big issue comes down to control of the product. In the analogue days there was some bootlegging, but by and large the record companies controlled the stock numbers and could charge prices accordingly. That meant fat profits for successful albums, which fed into the high recording budgets mentioned in the video. But with anything in digital form, copying is child's play, and control of what you put out is virtually impossible. Someone can always get it for free somewhere, and I bet most of us are guilty of that ourselves ;-)
Digital copying changes the game massively! Prices per song have plunged, especially with streaming. How can you make money when people can get the product you've spent so much time, love, care (and money) creating - for free?
It's possible, but to be successful musicians have to be a lot smarter and wear more hats than in the past.
What's stayed constant in all this technological churn is the public's love for music, along with their appreciation of great performers and musical artistry. It inspires young people to want to do that thing, be that person, themselves - just as we on this forum were inspired by great harp players to get started.
To get to a high level of musicianship requires skill - but also time. You can't just download a Little Walter pack, plug it in your brain and instantly sound like him - yet! Until we (God forbid) get to that stage, to play anything approaching a facsimile of Little Walter takes years and years of study and practice.
That creates a demand for knowledge, and an opportunity for experienced musicians to make a living sharing their skills. In these days great players and teachers are in our bedrooms through YouTube tutorials, or even in person one-to-one via Skype. Respected players like our forum host Adam Gussow, Ronnie Shellist, Jason Ricci, Jimi Lee and other online harmonica teachers make a decent income in this way, as well as thousands of master musicians on all the other instruments.
To play well you need not just knowledge but also good gear: nice harps, combs, microphones, effects pedals,amps etc. That's another opportunity for musicians with extra skills to make a living in the music industry. Because these products are still physical objects they can't be copied nearly so easily as albums and DVDs. It means their makers can control supply, and therefore charge prices that reward the investment, skill and innovation required to create them. I'm in that field, as are Greg Heumann, Lone Wolf, Tom Halchak, Andrew Zajac and others.
Then there are the master customisers like Joe Spires, Richard Sleigh, Joe Filisko etc, who players will pay hundreds of dollars to turn a Marine Band into a Stradivarius. They deserve every penny.
Many of the peeps above cross over between playing, teaching, and making stuff. Versatility is a huge asset for long-term survival in the music industry in the face of constant change.
For all musicians wondering how to pay the bills and still do what they love, take inspiration from what hasn't changed: the unending stream of new people, young and old, wanting to learn to play and sing. While that keeps happening there will always be an opportunity for those with the knowledge and skills to make a decent income feeding that demand, in one way or another.
No point in musicians complaining and harking back to the 'good old days', just get creative and ride the wave. It's not stopping.
Great post, Brendan. I agree with pretty much everything you say.
What still amazes me is the speed with which streaming killed off mp3 sales. I did really well with my first (solo) CD, "Kick and Stomp." I spent $1600 to make it (including mastering, but not including duplicating). I've pulled in over $10,000 with it. I'm sure that the success of the "Crossroads Blues" music video helped that; I'm quite sure that play on Sirius/XM "Bluesville" helped. None of the follow up CDs (Southbound, Roosters Happy Hour, Throw Down!) have done anything like that. I've probably broken even if you add up all four. But that first CD did really well because mp3 sales via CD Baby were very strong. I had some $500 months in there.
That has ended. I might get $50-60 a month now--from all four albums combined. Interestingly, K&S remains my top seller there, six years after being issued. Except for "Crossroads Blues," I haven't streamed any of it. If you want the album, you have to buy it. And I still sell some digital copies of the full album every month. Not as many, as I used to, but still: a modest income stream.
CD Baby, btw, is fantastic. I may not make much money there, but I get a complete and accurate accounting and payouts for the full amount, every single month. Nothing rolled over for six months. No music-biz flim-flam game. CD Baby has been a godsend for me.
What I'm NOT doing is selling enough copies of an album to justify spending $4-5K on making a new album. K&S had the virtue of being a quick one-man operation. It gave me the idea that you could pretty easily make back the money you shelled out on an album, and then some. The Blues Doctors album disabused me of that notion. I've got at least 500 copies out of the initial 1,000 copy run in boxes in my garage. It's a good album--but nobody is buying CDs, unless you're a touring act, in which case they ARE buying CDs.
You don't say much about personal appearances and the fees they generate, but I hear from many musicians that they're where the money is. Sales of recordings, which used to heavily supplement the personal appearance fees in the economic lives of working musicians, is now simply--for the most part, with exceptions at the very high end of showbusiness--the calling card that helps drum up excitement for the concert or club show. Profits from recordings, proportionally speaking, aren't nearly as important as they used to be.
Your basic point is entirely valid, though: diversify. If you want to survive as a modern musician, you need a range of income streams: a balanced portfolio.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jan 16, 2017 8:11 AM
Since technology could displace the live performance via the radio, record, TV, video, internet, live music has steadily been dying for the professional musician. Roy Smeck told me 80% of musicians were unable to make a decent living when the radio and record came to be and his saying they would sub for each other when sick because no one knew what they looked like! The decline of the club structure due to a zillion options for entertainment without having to leave ones house has brought the number of clubs that are exclusive music venues that charge enough $ to pay non super star musicians enough to live have just about become extinct. Open mics have risen so high that pay to play them or play for free performances are more the norm than not today. You can't fight these tides so as the old bluesmen would say "don't quit your day job". I have no idea how musicians of non super star status make a living today off their music but I will never join the ranks of musicians that continue to play for free, and pay to play. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
one thing to consider is most people do not have the disposable income they may once have had.
at one time your job would offer decent insurance, now more and more people have to pay for it themselves. in some instances it can be a considerable expense.
it costs a ton of money to go out for the night, how much was it for the recent stones concert here a few weeks ago?
to watch them perform from a mile away?.... no thank you.
something else to consider, much of the music today is substandard. back in the day you had to work really hard, and if you were lucky you would get a recording contract. now anyone can record .
Wow this is a great video! I completely reject the notion that this is old news. Sure the 30,000 ft. view of the industry, ie; digital technological advances have turned the indusry's business model upside down, has been widely known for a while. But this guy is imparting a great deal more information than just making that statement. He's talking a lot of detail on how the actual deals of both the past and today were/are structured. I'm not nearly an accomplished enough musician to have a dog in the fight, but I am curious enough to find this guy incredibly interesting.
Also, calling him a dinosaur is insulting. I'd say he seems like one of the guys who's been around for a while and actually has figured out how to adapt to the changing marketplace. Hardly a dinosaur, kudos to him.
Lastly, on the strength of 1847's recommendations above, I went to his youtube channel. It's got a wealth of music related videos posted, and if he handles those topics as well as he handled this one, and there's no reason to think that he wouldn't, I know I'll be visiting that page quite a bit.
So thanks mr so&so and 1847, well done.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Jan 16, 2017 10:17 AM
Thanks for the account of your experiences with recent album sales, Adam. I agree that making an album these days for many professional musicians is more of a calling card to raise profile/get gigs than a money-making prospect in itself.
Yes, you can still sell CDs at shows and festivals, but that income stream is shrinking and will die out altogether as CDs go obsolete. Some are selling USB sticks instead (with ALL their albums on), but that's a one-off. And if folks can get the tracks via online streaming, why would they bother even with that?
As you say, to make any kind of profit on an album now you need to keep recording/manufacturing costs WAY down, especially if you are self-funding. That largely rules out a lot of the most fun aspects of recording in the past: hiring in great session musicians for days on end and having a ball playing/eating/drinking together, recording in large studios, working with well-known engineers and producers, professional mastering, expensive artwork...
I still experience that situation on commercial sessions where I'm a hired gun, but for my own projects it's different. Unless they have an increasingly rare major label contract, most working musicians have to look very long and hard at those kinds of costs now. The good news is that there is great recording and mastering software plus nice gear (condenser mics, audio interfaces etc) available at a reasonable cost. This is a revolution in itself, and allows those who have taught themselves the skills to make professional-sounding albums in their bedrooms. That's mostly how I do my recording projects these days, as do many of my musician friends. We do contras with each other if we want guest players: you play on mine and I'll play on yours kinda-thing.
The music biz always was a difficult way to make a living, and the digital revolution has made that side harder. But regardless of the economics, making albums has other benefits. I love recording as I get so focussed and absorbed in the music for the duration of the project. For me in recent years albums have been a vehicle for really exploring a particular style or genre, and creating a kind of musical snapshot of a time and place in the process.
They tend to come about organically from a sound/style that I get fascinated by and start researching in depth - often requiring creating a new harmonica or tuning that works best for the style. I've done several of those over the years: Gypsy Jazz, Irish trad, Bulgarian, Chinese, Blues, Old-Timey...
I thoroughly enjoy doing them and get totally absorbed in each project for as long as it takes, but have no expectations of making money from the result! To me the reward is in what I learn from exploring the music, along with the appreciation of a niche market that shares my enthusiasm for these projects. They stay out there, and years or decades later I get emails asking about a certain track or album. That's cool - plus it's just satisfying for any musician accumulating a body of albums that act like markers on their own musical road.
For those reasons I'll keep recording regardless of the economics, but I'm lucky to have another passion which happens to bring in a more reliable income stream: designing/making new harmonicas and parts. R&D is just as creative and absorbing as recording, and happily enough people like the stuff I produce to allow me to make quirky albums for my own pleasure. But for musicians who rely totally on gigging and recording, the world today is a much tougher place than it used to be.
I have a good friend in Kansas, a brilliant singer/songwriter called Billy Ebeling who I met in New Zealand many years ago. He wrote a song called "Hundred Dollar Town". It's about the fact that he used to get $100 per gig in the 1980s and when he wrote the song 20 years later, was still getting $100 a gig despite massive money devaluation over that period.
I worry now that for excellent musicians of Billy's calibre it's more likely to be $50, playing for tips - or even paying to play...
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Jan 17, 2017 8:15 AM
@ brendan "I have a good friend in Kansas, a brilliant singer/songwriter called Billy Ebeling who I met in New Zealand many years ago." I knew Billy quite well while he was in NZ for a few years.He did a regular tuesday night gig at the Masonic pub in Devonport.For a while there he seemed to pop up everywhere usually with his brother on drums as a duo. We were in Port Douglas Australia on holiday once and as went into the local pub who do i see on the stage..yeah Billy pounding out the Blues. Excellent rack player and guitarist. Good memories.Is he still performing?
Yes, Billy is still out there playing several nights a week. He's based in Lawrence Kansas, but plays more in Kansas City. As you say a great rack player: Here's a clip:
He's also very tasty on slide guitar:
And plays accordion, kalimba, pedal steel... He's a mean chess player too. Rock on Billy Ebeling!
Billy Ebeling: not a name I was familiar with. But I am now. Many thanks to this forum--which continues to educate my ignorance, every day. He's a hell of a singer. As was Jimmy Reed. It's about the full package. If I had my way, we'd have a huge festival in which all the great rack harp players--Jimi Lee, Paul Oscher, Dave Harris, this guy, and many others--would blow our socks off. And they would.
