Larry Pittsburgh
1 post
Jan 08, 2017
9:01 AM
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I'm considering buying a used Fender Super Champ XD (15 watt tube amplifier with 16 different "voices") at a price that would enable to upgrade the Fender speaker with an Eminence Patriot Ragin Cajun 10" Guitar Speaker 75W 8 Ohm. Or something better?
I've heard the Ragin Cajun has more depth and sounds thicker which I think would be good for harmonica. The standard speaker seems a bit tinny.
Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
I'm basically a beginner looking for better tone and have been using a Pignose 20 for practice. I'm hoping that a better practice amp will help and also enable me to start playing with other musicians.
Thanks!
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LSB
243 posts
Jan 08, 2017
11:19 AM
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Ragin Cajun is good, the Eminence RF10C is better, IMO. Also the opinion of Dale Laslie at MegaTone amps.
The RF10C is arguably the best 10" speaker for harp out there right now. Of course tastes will vary, but I had a Jensen Jet Tornado, which is a very good and rather expensive speaker, in my amp and tried the RF10C in its place: The RF10C made the Jensen seem relatively dull and lifeless sounding by comparison, and the Jensen is a very very good speaker.
I have a Ragin Cajun in another amp, and it is also a very good speaker, but I'm going to swap it out for an RF10C one of these days if I start using that amp much again.
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Tblues1
80 posts
Jan 09, 2017
6:04 AM
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You may also want to look at Weber 10F150-O.
Works well for harp.
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Larry Pittsburgh
2 posts
Jan 09, 2017
1:09 PM
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Thanks, from what I can gather, you picked the best two and I think either will help improve my tone.
I checked with Weber as their speakers require that you specify watts, dope and dust cover. They agreed that the 10F150-O ("O" smooth cone) is probably better for harmonica (from Weber... "smooth cone speakers are better for harp, earlier breakup, warmer, maybe a bit more feedback resistant--but this is just a generality, really depends on the individual speaker, the characteristics of the specific amp, and what you like").
They suggest the "H" dust cover (from Weber... "Sometimes a player will want a speaker with a diffused or reduced high frequency response. For this purpose, some speakers may be ordered with the 'H' dustcap. This is especially true of harmonica players, who want to reduce the high end to help prevent feedback and abusive tones. Hence the designation 'H'").
They suggested "light dope" (from Weber... "Doping is the shiny goop you see on the surround of a speaker. Besides extending the life of the surround, it also acts as a shock absorber to help keep the cone under control at higher volumes. The downside is that it also dampens cone vibrations and therefore reduces the potential character and texture of the speaker.").
As far as watts... "I think the 30w is the better choice, and I'll tell you why. The wattage is determined by the voice coil of the speaker, and the voice coil on the 30w is a little bit longer than the 20w. what this means is there is actually more torque available, and the voice coil can move a little farther -- which results in a fuller tone in my opinion. the 20w is a little in-your-face and the 30w is a little more full and rich. of course, these differences are very slight, but they are still there."
Appreciate the great comments, I won't be buying the Ragin Cajun as originally planned.
I had no idea that getting good amped tone was this complicated. This blog has been very valuable as I'm still learning and its great how generous you have all been in sharing info on a myriad of topics.
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Larry Pittsburgh
3 posts
Jan 09, 2017
1:24 PM
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I notice that the Eminence RF10C is a 50 watt speaker and judging from what Weber said in the above suggestion; I wonder if it wouldn't sound fuller?
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LSB
245 posts
Jan 09, 2017
2:18 PM
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It is easy to get lost going down the rabbit hole of technical stuff about speaker constructor. There are lots of generalizations, but in the end, speaker construction is like cooking where the ingredients are all interacting, so......
Anyway, I haven't found higher watt speakers to sound fuller in general. I don't hear a direct relationship in my comparisons, but I have not listened to those particular Webers.
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SuperBee
4412 posts
Jan 09, 2017
4:35 PM
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"I had no idea getting good amped tone was this complicated"
We tend to over complicate it here. 'Good' is relative. And largely subjective. What you think is good today may appall you in a few years time.
Speakers are definitely one of the biggest factors in your amp's sound but rarely is the difference so great as to be make or break.
I don't have a super champ xd but I do have the close relative vibrochamp xd. I love the stock speaker in that, albeit an 8". I dont know who made it.
On the other hand, my silverface princeton Reverb really benefitted from a refit with a Weber 10A125-O. That stock speaker was 35 years old though and who knows what it had been through; maybe past it's prime
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Barley Nectar
1280 posts
Jan 09, 2017
4:55 PM
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I have many years of experience in all this as an amp builder/half ass tech and player. The Weber "O" cone will sound good at home and in low volume situations but will get lost in the mix when playing with a real band, drums n drunks!
I have the RC's and love them. Cajuns are LOUD and bold. You will be heard, that may or may not be a good thing! LOL
Have not tried the RF10c. Never played the XD either but I know some geetar guys that like them.
Not a real fan of the "H" dust cap either. I want those highs and upper mids. In time you learn how to manage feedback. No need to throw away tone. You need all the sounds you can get out of these little reeds! There are a lot of good speakers out there depends on your taste, style, amp and environment played in. No one here can tell you what is best for you. Let you wallet and ear be your guide! Good Luck...BN
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Barley Nectar
1281 posts
Jan 09, 2017
4:57 PM
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Hi Supe...
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Tblues1
81 posts
Jan 10, 2017
6:21 AM
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Interesting comments about the RC10 compared to the Weber.
I have used the RC in a 50 watt 2x10 and while they were indeed Bold, I found the Weber 10F150-O to be a little better overall.
I currently run two Weber 10F150-O, 50 watt light dope H dust cap and find that they are a little less harsh than the RC, just as loud and have no issues with being heard or losing highs. Definitely a matter of taste. I don't know about the RF10C.
Ragin Cajun, or Lil Buddy would be a good second choice.
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dougharps
1333 posts
Jan 10, 2017
8:04 AM
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If you have an amp that is prone to emphasizing high frequencies that tends toward a more treble based sound with less bottom, the Lil Buddy is the speaker that will help balance the sound.
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Doug S.
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