I'm familiar with Kong Sheng harmonicas. They are very decent, and reflect the steady rise in Chinese harmonica quality, also seen with new East Top diatonics. ---------- Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
Brand Name: SWAN Tone: C Number of Bores: 10 Body Material: Ti-Plated Cover Material: Chrome-plated Copper Board Pronunciation Method: Diatonic Model Number: KONGSHENG Type: C tone Number of Keys: Other 10 hole : Harmonica
Product Description ---------- Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
perhaps there is more to the story than meets the eye.
i am the proud owner of exactly one east top harmonica. i can not for the life of me, find the cover plates.... you would think that if it is a "swan" then special 20 plates would work. but no luck.
i do have bends juke plates that are a perfect match.
what i find interesting is.... i have a manji that i was able to fashion, bends cover plates to. but i had to force them on.... not a perfect fit. but they do fit perfectly on the east top. ---------- .
Are you saying that the kongsheng is the same harmonica as an easttop? ---------- Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
I copied this directly from an ad for an Easttop harmonica. No mention of Swan as on the Kongsheng.
Brand Name: EAST TOP Number of Bores: 10 Body Material: Metal Cover Material: Chrome-plated Copper Board Pronunciation Method: Diatonic Model Number: T008K Type: Blue Harmonica Tone: C,A,B,D,E,F,G,F#,G#,A#,C#,D# Number of Keys: 10 color: BLACK or Blue size: about 100 mm weight: 80g Suitable age: 5-100 box material: resin bottom plate: copper
---------- Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
There are several ways I can think that harps could end up nearly identical, aside from the same company making different brands. You might buy old equipment, or want to buy from some of the same part suppliers, or just figure, if it works, why not copy it. Or you might have ex employees working at each other's factories. Chamber Huang was an ex-Hohner guy, and I suspect many of the Chinese manufacturers learned from either Huang or from the Japanese or Hohner producing some of their harps in factories in China.
Hohner at one point bought Hering, and then sold it. I seem to remember the Bends guys were ex-Hering guys. What comes around goes around.
P.S., 1847, not sure, but maybe the spam filter gets you more because you try to repost when you get rejected? I'm not sure. It's been going kind of crazy the last couple days.
The Bushman Soul's Voice harmonica was made by Seydel. Harp Depot now sells a Soul's Voice, but I don't know where it is made. ---------- Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
Okay, so has anyone tried a Kongsheng Harp? The Easttop 008K are solid harps. A little gapping and you're off and running. I bought 8 of 'em. The choices of crazy cheap Chinese harps is a bit overwhelming. I think they are the new deal.
I've tried Easttop but haven't tried Kongsheng yet. They (one of their employees) has been commenting over on the MBH FB page and a couple guys over there have commented that they were decent harps.
I think Brendan Power would probably be the best source of info. He seems to know the Chinese harmonica companies pretty well.
Brendan Power (BeePee) does business with both East Top (Jiangsu East Musical Instrument) and KongSheng. Perhaps he can clarify any relationships (if any) between them and also with Swan.
I do know that both Swan and EastTop have been separate vendors across the hall from each other at SPAH conventions. =========== Winslow
So now we have one Chinese company making cheap imitations of Suzuki harps and then another one making cheap copies of the copies. Hmmm....... I'm confused. ---------- Tom Halchak Blue Moon Harmonicas
Tom, I've got one Easttop. It's not Crossover or Seydel level, but I'd say it's Sp20 level, so I'd say for Easttop at least I'd say they are 'inexpensive' not cheap. And from the prices I've seen on the Kongsheng they were posting on the MBH FB price they weren't aiming at the lower end of the market either.
I think they've been around a while too. There were some older reviews on Pat Missin's site. Bee was a cheap brand, Swan didn't focus on diatonics, not sure who was who but I do vaguely recall Pat's site saying something about some of them being pretty decent but mostly being made for the Chinese market, and Brendan has worked with both of them.
I don't remember where it was, but I was also reading or watching something on Chinese brands. Until now they didn't really have the infrastructure and expertise to market abroad, but a lot of their contracts where they do part work require that they get access to the intellectual property. The general gist was that we are likely going to see a lot more Chinese brands trying to develop their own brand recognition going forward.
I currently have somewhere between 50 and 70 harmonicas - way too many!!! My accumulated collection probably includes around 10, or maybe 15, different models in the mix. They ranged in price from $10 to $100. But I don't use them all. Today, I regret having bought the inexpensive models. Those cheaper models sit in a drawer, unused. If and when I really NEED more harps, I will buy additional higher end models: 1847, Session Steel, Manji, Hammond, Crossover - or maybe a custom. I know that I am more likely to use and enjoy a high quality instrument. I would rather have FEWER harps, which are high quality.
When I teach or advise beginners, I recommend: Special 20, Harpmaster, or Session Standard. Sure, there are cheaper models. But today a cup of coffee costs $5, so a $40 harp is a pretty inexpensive purchase. So I don't understand the need to shop for a $20 harp.
Chinese harmonicas are cheaper, because they save money somewhere in their operations: paying people less, working people harder, polluting more, using inferior materials, or getting financial subsidies. They also save money by stealing the design (intellectual property) of Suzuki, Hohner, etc. IP protection laws are weak/non-existant in China. The design, development, and testing of a new model is a big investment, which a "copier" avoids.
Japan and EU/Germany have strong labour regulations, which ensure that workers are not abused or under-paid. They have strong environmental laws, which means buying a Suzuki or a Seydel harp leaves less damage to the environment. Japan and Germany also have strong IP protection and anti-counterfeit laws. Also, the company cultures of Suzuki and Seydel are strong. Under the leadership of Manji Suzuki and Lars Seifert, both of these organizations are customer-focused and really care about music and musicians. I am happy to pay $20-30 more for a product from Suzuki or Seydel, to support these companies. I believe they treat their people well and respect the planet. I know part of that price tag is paying for the design/innovation work they have done. I want them to continue that work. Both companies have given the harmonica community a wave of great innovations over the past 20 years. I want to pay them for this work, and support their future innovations.
So I don't share in the current enthusiasm for these new Chinese harmonica makers. I agree with Tom -- what's the point in buying a copy of a copy? I will gladly pay a bit more for the original, and reward the creator for their innovation investment.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Apr 01, 2018 3:18 AM
Nate - My comment was mostly kinda sorta tongue-in-cheek. "Cheap" can mean inexpensive and it can mean inferior quality. The price is not really arguable – the Chinese harps definitely cost less than the German made or Japanese made harps. The quality is subject to debate. I have tried the East-Tops and Kongsheng harps at SPAH. They are not bad. The harps they offer that are less expensive than the Hohners and Suzukis don’t play as well as a Marine Band, Special 20 or Manji. The harps that do play as well as the Hohners and Suzukis are their more expensive harps.
Last year I got a solicitation from Kongsheng. As both a Hohner Dealer and a Suzuki Dealer and a regular Vendor at the SPAH Conventions, I am something of a target. They sent me a 37-page pdf which shows their full line of harmonicas. I would be happy to send it to you if you want it. Everything from the toy plastic harps with the see-through plastic covers to high end harps that are intended to compete with the high end Hohners, Suzukis and Seydels. They have harps that are absolute dead ringers for the Hohner Blues Harp (which they actually call “Blues Harp"), the Special 20 (which they call “Solar 20” – available with 4 different color covers), Suzuki HarpMaster (which they call the “Amazing 20 DELUXE), the Suzuki ProMaster (which they call the “Benders Harp” – available with 5 different colored combs, and another model called the “Blue Bird” with blue covers) and the Suzuki Manji (which they call the “Ting Harp” – available in a few different colors). I was luke warm semi-interested – but not really. I just thought that maybe I should get over my bias and check these harps out. They might be the wave of the future and I don’t want to get left behind. So I responded to their email and requested samples of a few of their harps. Here’s the price quote I got from them.
Model Model # Quantity (pc) Price Amazing 20 Deluxe JYKS09 1 17.80USD Benders Harp JYKS11 1 22.50USD Ting Harp JYKS12 1 31.00USD M. KONGSHENG JYKS15 1 41.00USD Bluebird JYKS16 1 41.00USD
Total product prices are 17.80+22.50+31.00+41.00+41.00=153.30USD.
DHL shipping cost to USA is 25.00USD.
But I could not bring myself to pull the trigger. In the final analysis, these are all harps that are copies of harps I already work with and frankly, the prices are not that much better than what I get from Hohner or Suzuki. So, speaking strictly for my business model, I couldn’t justify it. I was curious, but deep down inside I knew it would be a dead end. Sure, I could save a few bucks and the quality might even be as good, but it would be an uphill battle to convince my customers of that. I have better things to do with my time and money. In the long run, I think it would hurt my business, not help it. Like it or not, Chinese harps still have a reputation for being poor quality. Yes, the quality is getting better, but the blatant copies of other brands’ successful models just rubs me the wrong way. It doesn’t sit well with me. If the Chinese want to establish themselves as legitimate contenders in the harmonica world, they should consider coming up with their own designs. Make them something unique. Make them high quality. If you think you are capable of competing in the world market, put your money where your mouth is. Don’t make cheap copies of other guy’s stuff. Make something original and as good or better and competitively priced. That might get my attention.
Seems to me this is just a case of supply and demand. I read so many post where someone is looking for the best deal on harmonicas, or complaining that they cost too much, or they want a cheap model for someone starting out, even though it's already the lowest cost real instrument you can buy. I'm sure the Chinese manufacturer's are well aware of this, why else would they go to the effort to make and sell harmonicas that play almost as good as the big three but for a lot less. This isn't unusual though, I work for a company that needs small portable generators, and may have several on any given project, however due to a general lack of care for company tools, these generators normally are beat to hell in short order. Because of this my company doesn't but top of the line, but instead a $300.00 Chinese knock off of a Honda that goes for around $1600.00. And just like a Chinese harmonica it's almost as good for a lot less money.
But what happens when the big name maker now has to compete with the new guy? What got sacrificed in the process?
Couple of things: The Ting model and the model below and to the left on the Bates page look identical, yet one is $34 and the other $22. The do look identical, chromed reed plates and black covers with the same markings from what I see. Re: Eastop, I have a few and I'd say they are close to SP20 quality but with a solid comb ootb, which is a nice feature. BUT I'm with others who would rather buy from the older more respected makers like Suzuki or Hohner. I may try one of Brendan's Lucky 13's one of these days but I'm pretty well confirmed on what my kit contains, and I have low octave harps for what I need already. Longevity and rebuildability are two important features for me, hence replacement reed plates- or a harp which responds well to customization- are key assets. I happen to prefer Suzuki reed plates as the top of the heap but occasionally I will get hold of a Marine Band custom, which I do like the response and sound of. Not to mention longevity. My two Suzuki SCX models are durable and trouble free and the price was very reasonable. One has been with me for at least 5 or 6 years and sees use regularly, the other is pretty new and sounds excellent. I can expect it to last a long time as well.
The market is going kind of crazy, seems a lot of makers world wide are on the bandwagon (pun intended). Doesn't mean I'm going to support copy makers or copy of copy makers. I'm pretty well confirmed in my choices. To me it's a much better investment to buy reed plates and replace them as needed than to toss a whole harp over a bad reed.
Tom, I feel the same way when I shop at Walmarts... not supporting quality. That said, sometimes you just have a Walmart budget, so I think having new harps in the game is a good thing. Copying harps goes back farther, of course, than Chinese harps. Hering has models designed to mimic Hohner models. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. The human brain can be overwhelmed by choice and making a harp look like something familiar may make it easier for someone to compare similarities, especially in a product that you have to buy to try.
That's for the catalogue. They do seem to have a pretty developed line. Looks more diverse than maybe anyone but Hohner (although maybe not as innovative).
edit- Thanks for the catalogue, not that's for the catalogue.
I've heard rumors about at least one of the big traditional companies being pretty bad with IP too, but without secondary sources (although the one source was pretty good) I won't name names.
I suspect market forces are going to give the Chinese companies a leg up. The Chinese market is still fairly closed but getting more money, so they will have a strong advantage there for a while. I remember as a kid that you didn't want to buy toys from Japan, Taiwan or Hong Kong because they were always junk... that sure changed! Thanks for the catalogue.
AppalachiaBlues... yeah. That can happen even in the U.S. A lot of poorer states poach college grads from states that spend a lot more on education and set up business in states with lower taxes (because they don't spend is much on things like education.) That's the story of the fall of Detroit, (although that may have been even more local than state level), Upstate New York,...
It's sort of the circle of life. Hopefully, after China and India's economies finally 'catch up' there will be fewer and fewer places for companies to outsource to and things will start to rebound... although probably just in time for the robots to take all the jobs left.
It's not like there is a fully U.S. manufacturer left standing at this point to buy from. I think in the long run competition is good. Maybe what we need is international unions? I don't know. I don't want to get too political.
I haven't played all of the Chinese harps, but I've played a bunch of them. I like the sound of them in the lower keys, because the extra twang of the thinner reeds sounds pretty cool on certain things. They also make great harps for experimenting with different tunings. I really like the Golden Birds - they've been at SPAH the last couple of years and are great folks. Their harps are only $20 and play very well - beats anything else in that price range from the leading brands. I turned one into an overblow harp and with a little wax it's 100% squeal free. My initial interest in them was due to my search for inexpensive harps that I could be proud to place in the hands of a beginner, and give them something they could actually play, unlike a Bluesband, Hot Metal, Old Standby, etc. The Golden Birds meet that need. Can't comment on Kongsheng, but I also like EastTops. For what they are, these harps aren't bad.
Last Edited by Todd Parrott on Apr 01, 2018 11:17 PM
I have one Kongsheg "Solist" in the key of (A) and it is in the Top 4 BEST harmonicas that I own...it has a aluminum comb and plays like a dream...I cannot vouch for their other models but this one is awesome :)
I've just taken delivery from China of two Kongsheng harmonicas as I thought I'd try them out. The first one is called "Benders Harp". It looks pretty much like a cross between a Seydel Session Steel and a Suzuki Promaster. It cost me about £12 ($16) which included postage from China. Whilst it looks well made and is comfortable to play it's unfortunately a little bit leaky for my taste. So suitable for a beginner but I won't be buying any more.
The second harp I bought from Kongsheng is the Solist, their top of the range diatonic with a metal comb. It cost me £26 ($35). Wow! Now I've tried pretty much every harmonica out there including some customs and I'm blown away by this Solist. This is by far the best out of the box harp I've played bar none. It feels real quality, bends easily, in tune etc. Kongsheng have done an amazing job on this harp. For me it beats Manjis, Seydel 1847s and Hohner Crossovers in looks, feel and playability. Germany and Japan better watch out!
It's possible this is a one off, but I'm going to order some more in different keys because for £26 these are a bargain.
@ Norcoran... Re: "It's sort of the circle of life. Hopefully, after China and India's economies finally 'catch up' there will be fewer and fewer places for companies to outsource to and things will start to rebound... although probably just in time for the robots to take all the jobs left."
I hold a different theory of economics. These economies will not be "catching up" rather the global economy will reach a more equitable equilibrium. A good deal if you are bringing home $13 a day. Not so good if you bring home $300.
Things are changing fast in the Chinese harmonica scene - for the better. Certainly there are still plenty of cheapies about with the thin 'twangy' reeds that Todd mentions, but in the past couple of years Easttop has moved to phosphor bronze for all their reeds. This is the same rugged material Suzuki uses - stiffer than brass, and very durable.
Easttop's diatonics play very well out of the box, from the low cost T0008K model up to their Blues Player series, some with metal combs. They tend to copy Hohner in the looks department.
Just recently Kongsheng has switched to phosphor bronze in their new higher-end diatonics, and I'm pretty sure that's what Adam will have tried. Their metal comb models are really nice harps, similar-looking to the Manji and with the same reedplate screw pattern
As with many areas of life, reality moves much faster than old stereotypes can keep up with, and they become very dated. When I first went to France in the 1990s I was very disappointed to find no one wearing a beret! They'd moved on from that decades before (sadly!).
Likewise with Chinese harps - many still fit the stereotype of airy, out of tune and fragile. But the more recent ones from the likes of Easttop and Kongsheng are easily a match for the best models from the big names like Hohner, Suzuki and Seydel. And with prices still lower than the established old brands, it's possible to get a real bargain - as Adam found.
Last Edited by BeePee on May 16, 2018 4:26 PM
I've just ordered a full set of Kongsheng Solist harps direct from the factory in China. Cost was $30 per harp with $40 shipping to the UK (so roughly £25 per harp in UK money). Minimum order is 10 harps. I'll let you know if the quality is consistent across the board.
I can afford to buy pretty harp I want .but I don't feel that more money always buys more harp. I play fender blues devilles and have for over a year now. I have found them to be very playable reliable and a great harp for the money. having said that I am under no illusion that fender makes these , in fact i'm sure they buy them from easttop and just rebrand.i'm gigging with easttop harps now and they have not let me down.i grew up playing marine band 40 plus years ago and I love playing the easttops. that may change at some point but if I have found a harp that plays and sounds great i'm happy to keep the extra $$ in my pocket.
Whereas nowadays, the People's Republic of China is "a socialist state under the people's democratic dictatorship, led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants", according to the PRC's constitution.
Nate: What you have said is just your opinion. The harmonica forum is not a place to spread your progressive liberal democratic socialist propaganda.
With that said... My opinion about China... Their leaders are a bunch a totalitarian communist dictators whose ultimate goal is the destruction of America and world domination.
MAGA
Last Edited by Jaybird on Jul 22, 2018 5:25 PM
Jaybird, I'm not sure how you took my comment as being pro-China or as being propaganda... but that said, instead of trying to clarify something johnleewfan said I should have pointed out that politics aren't something we do on the forum.
Now, what you have said... that is clearly political and very, very clearly a violation of the forum creed. (I don't know what you may have edited out of it before I got here so I can only comment on what you've left). You are welcome to have political views, but you are not welcome to spout them off here. Reread the forum creed, and in the interest of you not spouting off about my left wing propaganda again you might might want to reread my comment.
First, johnleewfan’s comments were clearly political and clearly a violation of the forum creed, yet you chose to “clarify” his comment, and not admonish him as you did me.
Nate. I agree that politics is something we do not do on the forum. However your clarification was clearly a political statement of “fact”, ie. “they have pretty strong capitalist tendencies and democratic practices”, which is also a violation of the forum creed.
I disagreed with your political “clarification” statement, and was offended by this characterization of the Chinese regime. I felt the need to respond in kind.
I realize you are the moderator of this forum and has the power to make and enforce the rules. However, as I just pointed out, I was not the only person expresssing political views here.
I apologize tor expressing my political opinion here on the harmonica forum. It won’t happen again.
I wasn't attempting to express any political views on my post. China is, and doesn't claim to be, anything other than a one party country (still called the Communist Party). You and my liberal self agree on that, actually, just as a matter of fact. You just misread what I said.
As for the economics, it's actually much more interesting. I won't post anything about the economics of it, but may I suggest googling the Chinese economic system. There is tons of private ownership in China these days. Back in the 90s they did a big economic reform. That's one of the reasons you see so many different companies coming out of China these days. That actually does have a fair amount to do with harmonicas too, because the Chinese market is getting to the point where they are catching up in quality on a lot of products. I remember when I was a kid anything made in Japan was garbage, then Taiwan, or Hong Kong. Now some of the most technical stuff in the world is manufactured there. I've only got one Easttop, but from what I've seen, they've pretty much caught up on quality with the mid-priced German and Japanese harps.
I just wanted to clarify that, because I was doing my best to not be political with my post, just to clarify something. 9 times out of 10 that keeps threads from going off the rails. Calling someone out for something (like the Johnleewfan comment) maybe works half the time, so I was just playing the odds.
Seriously though, reading up on China's economy is interesting- and a bit scary, whether you lean left or right, and a lot more complicated. There are tons of things I could say on another forum, some of which you'd probably agree with me on, and some which you'd probably disagree with me on, about it all. I just want to make clear I was trying to avoid politics altogether though, even by commenting a little bit on politics.
If you like interesting reading about China, may I suggest you have a look at a book by two top Chinese military strategists, published in China in 1999. It’s called “Unrestricted Warfare: China’s master plan to destroy America”.
It's primary concern is how a nation such as China can defeat a technologically superior opponent (such as the United States) without direct military confrontation, through a variety of means, including using international law (lawfare), economic warfare, cyber warfare, terrorism, etc. .
It’s some pretty heavy duty reading material, if you can get through it. You can download it for free here:
So, with all that being said, I actually ordered one harp from Kongsheng.
It's called the "Benders Harp". It looks just like my favorite harmonica, the Suzuki Bluesmaster, it even has phosphor bronze reeds. Cost only $18.39US with shipping. Can't wait to try it out.
Jaybird: Once you start editing your own posts, as you've done above--and I know this because I read your short post dated 5:01 PM on 7/22 and emailed admin Nacoran about it--then you obviously have changed the dialogue. Prior to editing, your post was clearly at odds with the following forum rule:
"§OTHER BAD STUFF. Although conversation about blues harmonica and related issues should be free and spirited, this forum isn't a men's locker room. Casual (or intentional) ethnic or racial slurs, anti-gay rants, sexist/misogynist language, insults specifically targeting a given nation or nation’s citizens, and/or pointed and sustained use of four-letter words--including any such language directed at another forum member--are strictly prohibited."
You pointedly smeared an entire nation, China, and followed up your smear with "MAGA," "Make America Great Again." Up to that point, this thread, which I read through to that point, had been a surprisingly civil discussion of issues that COULD have taken things off the rails. Remarkably, even while raising serious issues about China's theft of intellectual property, other posters managed to avoid breaking the rules. They did so by refusing to simplify and insult. Or at least that's my judgment. Your prior-to-editing comment simplified and insulted, in my view. Thus Nacoran's advisory.
At this point, I agree with you. Let's steer things back onto the rails and talk about the harps. No need to edit any posts, anybody. Leave them as-is.
Jaybird, you certainly ARE allowed to direct people, as you've done in a more recent post above, to a specific text or study that raises in detail the issue you wanted to raise. I'm fine with that. That complicates rather than simplfies the issues. This forum SHOULD be a place where this particular (and sensitive) issue should get a good, in-depth, civil discussion. I think we were basically having that.
Adam. My original post of 5:01 PM did not include the words “progressive”, “totalitarian”, and “dictators”. Those words were added in the final edited version, no part of the original post was deleted. My prior-to-editing post is not significantly different than the final version, and certainly not any more inflammatory.
Yes, I smeared an entire nation, China, by calling their leaders a “bunch of totalitarian communist dictators whose ultimate goal is the destruction of America and world domination”, and for this comment I do apologize because it violates the forum rules.
But as far as the “MAGA” statement is concerned, it was in both the original and edited version. “MAGA” is hardly a smear against an entire nation. It is a patriotic slogan created by our great President Trump. “Make America Great Again” is hardly a slogan against anything. We should all be proud of the accomplishments of our president and should support his goal to “Make America Great Again”. Anyone who opposes this idea is clearly anti-american and doesn’t deserve to be a part of this great nation.
Again, I apologize to you Adam, for expressing my political opinion on this harmonica forum. It won’t happen again.
Lol... I know politics is not allowed on MBH, but I did get a chuckle reading the back and forth above.
Jaybird, why not join me next week at the Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival in Beijing? The Chinese might be out to destroy America but, after tasting it, you'll have to agree with me that the street food in Beijing is truly delicious. You can go down eating :-) The festival hotel looks pretty nice for after-dinner political discussion round the pool too. Here's the link if you fancy booking:
http://www.hxharmonica.com/en/index.asp
Back to Kongheng: the new Kongsheng harps are excellent: nice playing and good looking. You can hear one in this video from 1:45 - 2:50. It's obviously inspired by the Suzuki Manj, but it has a beautiful alloy comb and the covers are beefier than the rather flimsy ones on the Manji:
Last Edited by BeePee on Jul 23, 2018 12:21 PM
Brendan. Thanks for the invitation to Beijing, but I am afraid that if I were to engage in any after-dinner political discussion I will probably wind up in a Chinese prison, never to be heard from again. :-)
BTW, I look forward with great anticipation to the receipt of the Overblow Booster I ordered.
Jaybird: I have no problem with MAGA, per se. I truly don't But context matters. In the context of your particularly spiky line--which you've quoted directly above--it was impossible for any reasonable reader, I submit, not to feel, with that help of that MAGA blazon, that you were slandering one nation's citizens from a standpoint of partisan American nationalism.
I'm happy to let this drop. We have beaten it to death. We may now return to our regularly scheduled discussion of cheap steel and obscure tuning modalities.
Awww... I was enjoying the repartee! I particularly appreciated the way Jaybird managed to reiterate his point that China was bent on world domination whilst apologising because he realised that saying it (again, in further detail) meant he was breaking MBH rules. Lol, nice one Jaybird :-)
All I'd say is, in the spirit of fair play that Americans are rightly proud if, since you've had a good run of world domination yourselves after the demise of the previous world dominators, the British, isn't it about time to let someone else have a go?
An intriguing handle indeed! Yes, we are indeed on the same downward slide that your (formerly) great empire enjoyed for many a year. Curious, though, that it should be King Leer [sic], our own, who is presidenting [sic] over it. With these words, m'lord, I shall retire. A thing of beauty is a joy forever, especially when tweaked by HarpWrench.
I am a mere colonial subject of the Empire upon which The Sun Never Set, being born in Kenya and raised in its far-flung outpost of New Zealand. I'm now a lowly immigrant in what Kiwis used to refer to as the Mother Country and, along with the rest of the population of Britain, experiencing (I wouldn't say 'enjoying') the somewhat disorienting tail end of that long downward slide to which all Great Powers eventually succumb. (Well we hope it's the tail end; with the general shambles that politics is in this country at present, one wonders if the slide might turn into a freefall towards oblivion).
I think the Dutch have a lot to teach the Brits and any formerly hegemonic power on how to manage the inevitable decline. They too were once World Dominators who lost it all, but have adapted swiftly and gracefully to being a small but energetic player on the world stage. With their legendary pragmatism, the Dutch have adjusted their mindset and long ago got over any delusions of grandeur - a psychological reset that has still a way to go across the channel (and perhaps eventually the Atlantic, who knows?). They show it's not all bad: you can retain the best of who you are and lead in other ways, even if your country is no longer the boss of a big chunk of the planet.
With your last sentiment we harmonicistas can universally agree! Well spoke, Professor Gussow.
Last Edited by BeePee on Jul 23, 2018 11:42 PM
A nice little witty discourse there from you two. I'm ,like BP (why waste letters) a Kiwi, but born in the Uk The decline of the British empire and indeed Europe is outlined in a wonderful new bestseller by Douglas Murray(a sub editor at the esteemed newspaper the Spectator) called the "Strange Death of Europe" Not only Britain is in decline but the whole continent. Sad but all Empires seem ultimately to self destruct.. You've come a long way BP since the days when you used to leap on stage(or Gus) at the Gluepot pub.My Harp lessons sitting on the floor of your bedroom in a grotty flat come to mind as well. Good on yer.
Ah, 'grotty' - haven't heard that word in a while! I'm starting to think through all the grotty flats I lived in during those Auckland years. Good years, lots of live music in the city at the legendary Gluepot and myriad other venues, but I sure was poor! Good to hear you're still playing that harp Indigo :-).
As for Europe, if this is decline I recommend it! I'm currently in the French alps at a music festival, with great views, good food, lots of music and happy people. It doesn't feel like the continent is self destructing from here; not sure I want to read that book and shatter the illusion.
Last Edited by BeePee on Jul 23, 2018 11:44 PM
As for those who wonder why the Rule about making nice in the matter of other nations is required: Whenever I see the words "New Zealand" and "Kiwi," I have two thoughts.
The first is admiration for Arthur Lydiard, Peter Snell, and the remarkable tradition of distance running given to us by that great country.
The second is the unutterably filthy and slanderous two-word term (the first word is "sheep") that Australians have for Kiwis. We just can't have that sort of thing here at MBH; the forum would blow sky-high. Next to that, the US/Chinese stuff is child's play. Where DO Aussies come up with such stuff?
Then again, there's something to be said for that sort of playfully outrageous men's locker-room insult culture. The problem is that it works better in person, where context gives us clues to how everybody is feeling, than it does here, in cyberland, where strangers confront each other with little context.
That's basically why Nate and I harp on the civility thing. Actually, where's my whip? I need to start cracking it right about now......
