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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Headphone Practice - mod the amp?
Headphone Practice - mod the amp?
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Arrick
5 posts
Jun 07, 2016
3:14 PM
So I guess my neighbors and my wife don't like my Kalamazoo nearly as much as I do. :(

Is there an easy safe mod to add a headphone jack? Would it just be better to buy a small practice amp with built in headphone jack?

I really want to retain as much of the break up and tone from the Kalamazoo as possible so I can practice. I had my tech add a line out jack, but it doesn't turn off the speaker. I know you can't just unhook the speaker without damaging it.

Do any of y'all practice through headphones? What are your suggestions without dumping a bunch of money.
rogonzab
956 posts
Jun 07, 2016
3:37 PM
Use your pc. If you are practicing, you dont need tone.




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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
Killa_Hertz
1554 posts
Jun 07, 2016
9:50 PM
You can do a few things. One of which is plug headphones into the end of your pedalboard.

But i use my DA5 alot.

There's gotta be an output on your amp, no?

If not, you could put a switch before the speaker, one way would goto speaker other way togles to a headphone out. Check with someone more knowledgeable that me before trying this. Not sure how it will effect the tube circuit. May have to add resistors inline or something.

But you would be surprised how good of a sins you can get out of a Cheap SS amp. Especially with headphones. It's hard to tell the difference.

The da5 has a speaker emulator on the output, as does the joyo amercan.

Hope some of what i said made sense, its late and been a long day.
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MindTheGap
1674 posts
Jun 07, 2016
11:26 PM
Hi Arrick. Over the in the beginners forum we've had quite a lot of discussion about getting a good amped sound for home and practice use, so you might find something interesting there.

It's not straightforward, on a tube amp, to cut the speaker and have a headphone output and you should definitely NOT do what kHz suggest as it will damage your amp. But from the OP sounds like you know that already.

I agree in a way with rogonzab that "If you're practising, you don't need tone" but some of us are only playing at home so we do want a nice tone, only quiet.

My experience is that the direct electrical signal from the amp (i.e. minus the speaker) is nothing like as rich as the sound of the ensemble, so there are better ways to do it.

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jun 07, 2016 11:57 PM
Thievin' Heathen
762 posts
Jun 08, 2016
5:06 AM
I tried headphones out of my DigiTech RP350. It gives me electric harmonica, piped directly into my brain. Turns out, that's not really what I was looking for.
Tube breakup, speaker breakup, cabinet effect(character), are missing.

I practice & try to play far more acoustically lately. It opens a lot of other possibilities. There are many more pretty girls strumming country, folk & bluegrass than picking Chicago Blues. I want really tasty acoustic for that. Just an observation.
Arrick
6 posts
Jun 08, 2016
8:28 AM
My guitar tech made me a little thingy that I can hook onto the speaker leads to suck the juice from the tubes. I just don't like pulling them off/on of a vintage amp. Figure something will break eventually. I'm going to look at the iRig 2. It has a headphone jack and allows me to explore amp models, etc. with Amplitube or GarageBand on my iPhone. I practice acoustically mostly. When I tried headphones in my friends modern Bugera 5w tube amp, I was surprised at how well I could hear the subtleties of my playing through the mic. It's helping me sharpen my single notes, octaves, etc. I can be more sloppy playing through a cranked tube amp.
Killa_Hertz
1555 posts
Jun 08, 2016
8:51 AM
Theuvin ... captcha got me. But the point of it was. The da5 is great for that because it has a speaker emulator on the output, it has variable wattage and is battery powered.

The amp models are pretty good. It has built in effects that ll do in a pinch, but they aren't all that.

But i run the Lone Wolf Harp Attack, or the Joyo American, and LW reverb and delay and get a great sound out of the headphones on .5Watt. Also I haven't changed the batteries since I got it. So they last a good long time.

The mini 5 rhythm is the replacement model for the DA5 which is discontinued. . Apparently the mini5 is very good aswell and very similar, but has an added rythm feature which sounds nice.

Anyways the point is you can get great sounds out of it for practice.

And being battery powered, if you use a multi effects pedal with battery (zoom multi stomp or digitech RP---) you can have a nice lil busking/travel setup for spontaneous playing. In 5 watt it really rips for a lil amp.

I highly recommend one of those amps.
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STME58
1731 posts
Jun 08, 2016
9:02 AM
Arrick, you make a great point, one that I find very hard to convince some musicians (especially young ones) of, that you can hear things you need to work on much better when you turn the volume down. If you do most of you practicing at low volume levels you are going to make improvements, then when you crank it back up, you will sound much better.
MindTheGap
1676 posts
Jun 08, 2016
9:44 AM
That iRig2 does look like a good idea for this purpose, rogonzab's AmpliTube demo does sound nice. I note that the iRig2 has a gain control on the input, which I think may a be an important feature in making it work well with the big signal from a cupped harp mic.
Fil
150 posts
Jun 08, 2016
3:10 PM
I second the suggestion for the VOX mini5.
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Phil Pennington
Killa_Hertz
1561 posts
Jun 08, 2016
6:59 PM
Stme ... that's very interesting that you bring that up. I also have found that with the volume turned down, every little noise is magnified, but not blurred by the Gain/Overdrive.

If im not on my game i sound horrible. (If i am on my game i sound mediocre. Lol.) So that's probably good advice.
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rogonzab
957 posts
Jun 09, 2016
6:10 AM
If you can acces to bluesharmonica.com John Shirley has put in there a new harmonica recording software: Blue Dadi. Is like amplitube, but designed for harmonica. I tried that software, and yes, you can have really good tone out of it, I bet that is going to be the standar for home recording from now on.
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
R2D2
37 posts
Jun 10, 2016
9:15 PM
Weber attenuator. http://www.tedweber.com/attenuator-faq/

Last Edited by R2D2 on Jun 10, 2016 9:15 PM
bublnsqueak
50 posts
Jun 11, 2016
3:23 AM
I fitted one of these between amp and speaker.
https://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/loudspeakers10.htm

Simple, cheap, does the job.

Paul
Killa_Hertz
1567 posts
Jun 11, 2016
4:46 AM
Zab.

I had seen that blues harp. Com had added that. They had a writeup on FB about it. Looks promising.

R2d2 n Bubbl.

I have heard mixed stories about Attentuators. They heat up, they rob Tone, etc. Do you find any negative effects to using an attentuator?

Also it only makes sense to me that even with the attentuator Off. You would still have the slightest but of resistance.

All these things probably negligible. Especially if used on a practice amp. But if you were to use them on your good tube amp that may be a different story. Even though the difference still may be minimal people tend to go nuts over the smallest tone loss. Justified or not I'm not sure, but .... still.


OT ... As im typing this i hear a guy out the window, walking down the street Wistling. (Very Well Mind You)

He Whistling Toto - Hold The Line. And so well that i Burst out laughing and woke up the old lady. She (half asleep) looks at me and says WHAT?! I apologize and say i was laughing at the guy whistling. I said "Hes whistling Hold the Line and its really good"lol. Before im done my sentence she is half out the bedroom window. "HEY, STFU OUT THERE!" And right back to sleep she goes. Lmao. Shes as sweet as they come, but don't wake her up ... lol.

Haha ... sorry but that was too funny not to share.

It also was pretty amazing how Good this guy was at whistling. Every little detail of that song he nailed.
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 11, 2016 4:51 AM
MindTheGap
1681 posts
Jun 11, 2016
5:22 AM
I use a variable L-Pad attenuator like that and yes it works, but doesn't sound the same as when driving the speaker hard.

The point is that Arrick doesn't want to keep plugging/unplugging his static attenuator. The variable one can be left in place.

So if you want to tame your tube amp for use at home, and why not, it works. But if you want a tube-amp sound for recording or playing along at low volume or heardphones, I think the amp models (or little modelling amps) are more appropriate.

kHz Now I have 'Hold the Line...' running through my head. Thanks a bunch :). I'll have go and listen to it to clear it.

...woh, woh, woh...

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jun 11, 2016 5:38 AM
bublnsqueak
51 posts
Jun 11, 2016
6:58 AM
I use the L pad in 5W modded Peavey.
Not noticed any tone issues but I've never been able into run it at full volume for long enough to get to know it well. So I can't tell.
No heat problems.

The Weber link from R2D2 was interesting. They fit a switch like a true bypass so you can switch it out. I might try that

Paul
dougharps
1241 posts
Jun 11, 2016
8:03 AM
I recommend AGAINST modding a vintage tube amp for headphones or even using an attenuator, for that matter. An attenuator will cost you, and will not really meet your practice needs if the Kazoo can't turn down enough as is. Attenuators are a good option if you need to play a small venue with a big amp, the Kazoo not being such an amp. I prefer having different sized amps for different settings to using an attenuator.

If your wife and neighbors object to the Kalamazoo amp, there really is no amped solution that will be quiet enough, and headphones or acoustic practice are all you can hope for.

If you have a Kalamazoo amp, cherish it! If you cannot play it quietly enough for neighbors and wife, then there is no amplified practice in that environment that will be useful. The reason I say that is that part of amp/mic practice is learning to manage the mic at stage volumes while avoiding feedback and getting a good cup with good tone.

If you just want the sound of distortion when you practice w/o actually practicing at volume in a useful way, I would suggest a modeler or solid state amp with modeling built in and that has a headphone jack already built in. I would advise against mods adding a headphone jack to vintage amps.

You CAN work on cupping some at low volume or through an amp or modeler with headphones, but the feedback issue cannot be addressed at low volume or with headphones. You will get a false sense of knowing how to manage your mic, then when you turn up you will have problems. High gain patches that sound fine through headphones would scream with feedback if played at stage volumes.

I have a modeler, but these days I tend to use it only for recording. It sounds pretty good through headphones, and I have gigged with it through PA and solid state amps, but I prefer a good tube amp for gigs played at stage volumes.

For practice I just work on acoustic tone and techniques and wait until I have a chance to turn up an amp when those persons it would bother are not around the house. Then I work on mic technique at high volume levels. This can work easily in a house. If you are in an apartment or shared house you will ave to wait until anyone who would be annoyed has left the area.

The more I play the more I realize that good acoustic tone translates to good amped tone.

But it IS still important to take time to practice cupping and mic technique at stage volumes. Just wait for a good opportunity when you won't annoy people!
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Doug S.
Killa_Hertz
1569 posts
Jun 11, 2016
8:09 AM
Ahh a true bypass was what i was getting at before i lost my train of thought due to the guy whistling. That sounds promising.

I also haven't had the opportunity to really play my VHT at full volume too often. So im in the same boat.

Anyhow the da5 really fits the bill for me. The only thing is, it does have that SS sound, but when used with the Harp Attack it warms it up nice.

Lately I've been running the Harp Attack for Tubey Warmth and low end boost/breakup, the Joyo American for the Mid Boost and breakup, and the BBE Sonic Stomp for the real nice Bass and to clear everything up nice. "Harp in HD" as Ricci calls it. Then Lone Wolf Delay and Reverb. Its a Pretty solid sound. Ofcourse i dont think anyone ever stops trying to tweak their sound to make it better. But it sounds pretty darn good. Especially for a practice amp at low volume.

The headphones help alot. Especially by eliminating feedback, but you just lose the speaker breakup unless you have a circuit to emulate it. Or i have also miced the amp, ran it through my mixer, and headphones out of the mixer. That works pretty well also. But now your not quiet anymore lol.
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Greg Heumann
3243 posts
Jun 11, 2016
9:45 AM
It has been suggested above and is probably explained in the articles about attenuators but for the health of your amplifier I want to make this very, very clear: NO! You cannot just put a switch in that turns off the speaker and routes the output to a headphone jack.

A tube amp needs a proper 8 ohm load that can absorb power. That's a speaker, or an attenuator, period. If not? You can burn up the output transformer or worse. Headphones? Not only will they not provide that load, you could blow them up nearly instantly. Headphones are designed to operate on milliwatts of power. You run 5W through them for a 1/10 of a second they'll be toast.

So I'm with Doug and others above - there's plenty to practice acoustically. However it takes a lot of practice to play with an amp and mic as well - these are NEW SKILLS unrelated to acoustic playing, which is also required. If you're not into playing into the computer, I've been bringing a rig to SPAH for a few years now that works quite well. It is a little battery powered amp simulator - in my case a pocket sized amp simulator like this: Pandora Mini, together with a portable headphone amplifier. Plug a mic in and a pair of headphones and its more than good enough for practicing your mic technique. Plus it has a gazillion silly settings that can produce some really weird sounds for hours of fun.


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***************************************************
/Greg

BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes

Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jun 11, 2016 9:56 AM
bublnsqueak
52 posts
Jun 11, 2016
11:38 AM
Greg
Is the L pad a suitable attenuator? It's a lot cheaper than a soak sold for the purpose and they seem to be fitting something similar direct?Y to speakers now.

I was thinking to use the switch to bypass the attenuator (not the speaker) as someone suggested that L pads impact (full volume) tone?

Grateful for your thoughts.

Thanks
Paul
Greg Heumann
3245 posts
Jun 12, 2016
8:56 AM
@bublnsqueak - sorry, I never studied L-Pads. It probably will work if it can handle the power. If you have an attenuator and it isn't enough, perhaps the two will work in concert - I wouldn't switch the attenuator out. Stop worrying about tone. Your headphone speakers are nothing like the amp's speaker, so you're not going to get the same tone no matter what. And this is for practice anyway - it will sound fine (as will the other solutions above).

There are much smaller/more portable/less risky-to-your amp solutions to playing through headphones.
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***************************************************
/Greg

BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Killa_Hertz
1574 posts
Jun 12, 2016
6:55 PM
Thanks for the input greg.

If i was going to put a switch i would have done my research first. But i appreciate the heads up. And your right there is alot better solution to headphone playing than messing with your tube amp.

But for arguments sake what if you put some sort of 8 ohm resistor on the load side of the other pole of your on-off-on switch? Still not worth messing with, but ....

I have a Hard time playing with a mic. It's harder than it looks. 8^)

Im pretty compitent playing acoustically. But with a mic my hands cramp up, my fingers get in the way. Trying to keep that cup going, but keeping enough space on the harp to keep my lips on it as comfortably as they are while playing acoustic.

I never heard of that pandora mini, but that's a great idea. I use something similar, one of my small amps and the zoom multistomp. But the korg looks more compact. And a headphone amp would be aswell. I might have to look into that.
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 12, 2016 6:58 PM
STME58
1737 posts
Jun 12, 2016
11:03 PM
Killa, I'm with you on the challenge of using a mike, but it does get easier with practice. I've gotten to the point where holding the mike is natural and my hands don't cramp, But getting a full seal and shaping th tone the way I want to have a ways to go. I much prefer standing in front of a vocal mic on a stand, but that is not always what the situation calls for.

In part due to inspiration from this tread and in part because I have been asked to join a band, I have gotten out my little 9V powered Honey-Tone amp and plugged in my mike and a set of headphones to bring my mic work up to an acceptable level. The tone is not too bad, and I can really tell when my technique is off.
Killa_Hertz
1575 posts
Jun 13, 2016
6:13 AM
I also am starting to play with the mic on the stand a bit. Sunny boy style. But i find doing that, hand effects are much different. If you fully cup the harp, like a mute effect, it makes a huge difference. It seems like you always have to have a small hole open so you can keep some semblence of volume.

I have a honey tome aswell. But it was recently replaced by this little Peavey GT5 i got for $10 at the flea market. It's a nice lil 9v amp. Is got some balls for a 9v amp. And decent breakup.




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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 13, 2016 6:14 AM


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