FreeWilly
483 posts
Apr 09, 2016
7:45 AM
|
Hey guys,
I got hold of a nice bullet and found aforementioned element in it. Any thoughts as to how old this might be?
It says controlled magnetic element.. but which one? It was sold as white label... (edited to add: white label cr)
Whatever it is, it sounds fine :)
Thanks so much!
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Apr 09, 2016 12:24 PM
|
timeistight
1978 posts
Apr 09, 2016
8:31 AM
|
All CMs have white labels, so that doesn't tell you much.
There should be a code beside the model number with either three numbers or two letters.
In the three number code, the first number is the year (starting with "1" for 1951) and the next two numbers are the week.
In the two letter code, the first letter is the year (starting with "A" for 1961) and the second number is the month.
I got this info from greenbulletmics.com but that site is offline right now.
|
FreeWilly
484 posts
Apr 09, 2016
10:57 AM
|
Thanks for that!
So: the element says 835 which would put it in 1958.
It was sold as a white label CR.... But it's not even what greg heumann calls a premium cm then? Does anyone know when that switch was exactly. The glue looks a reddish brown with a red dot..
|
timeistight
1980 posts
Apr 09, 2016
12:59 PM
|
The name change supposedly occurred around March 1958.
I'm not sure what differences are between the late CRs and early CMs. Maybe Greg Heumann will weigh in on that.
Last Edited by timeistight on Apr 09, 2016 1:55 PM
|
FreeWilly
485 posts
Apr 09, 2016
1:07 PM
|
Thanks titight!
If you see this, Mr. H, that would be much appreciated.
March 58... mm, that would make it one of the first cm elements. Sounds exiting.
The element is strong in output and has a very full tone.. kinda smooth. It being my first cm, I can only compare it with youtube and other kinds of mic though :)
|
Harpaholic
885 posts
Apr 09, 2016
9:16 PM
|
"I'm not sure what differences are between the late CRs and early CMs"
Because of Dave Kott's site, it became common knowledge, but its all useless information.
Tone is all that matters!
I aquired the facts long before there was
a green bullet website. CR elements have been popping up lately that are not on Dave's site.
I recently saw a 1956 Black label CR with a plastic bobbin like the later CR/CM's instead
of the phenolic bobbins used on all black CR's that we know of. Black CR's were thought to have been made only until 1954?
I have seen quite a few odd ones in the last year.
One big difference is the round cymbal
like disc on the pin attached to the foil diaphram in the center.
On the CM's they used only glue, no disc.
IMO, thats a big factor as far as tone.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Apr 09, 2016 9:27 PM
|
Owen Evans
125 posts
Apr 10, 2016
6:55 AM
|
@Harpaholic - It is agreed that the tone of the element is the ultimate arbiter of the value of the element. It's the reason some play a ceramic instead of a CM or CR. Then there's a lot of us who play a Heumann element since it is new, does the work very well and doesn't cost an arm and a leg due to the rarity of the hen's tooth element - factor of the old Shures. By the way, the reason a lot of questions come up about Shure CMs & CRs is because Dave Kott's site has not been available for a while.
|
Greg Heumann
3207 posts
Apr 10, 2016
2:38 PM
|
First of all, if it says "CM" it is NOT a CR' CR comes from "controlled reluctance" and it would say that where it says "controlled magnetic".
2nd - K is a fairly rare letter between the 99 and the 86 of the model number. By far the most popular letters were A,B, G and H. (And E, which is always medium impedance, and C which is always low impedance.) So it would be good to know the impedance of the "K" - have you measured it?
3rd: What I call a "premium cm" is one where the center pin was glued with the glue they started with - which is a fully opaque epoxy - usually light yellow in color, sometimes beige or pink. Later they switched to a more translucent glue like in the pic below which shows the one indisputable difference between CR and CM elements.
4th: 
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Apr 10, 2016 2:41 PM
|
Barley Nectar
1198 posts
Apr 10, 2016
3:14 PM
|
I believe I have a K element in the basement, as I recall, it is not as hot as some. Those would be good for taming down a gainy amp if they are all like this. I get a kick out of people who want a hot mic than put low gain tubes in their amps to calm feedback...BN
BTW, I played my "premium" CR last night. It has a 1MA VC and is in a Turner shell. I recently removed the silk from behind the mic grill. I think this is a big improvement tone wise. More meat and clairity...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Apr 10, 2016 3:22 PM
|
rogonzab
931 posts
Apr 10, 2016
3:39 PM
|
I love this place!
A few weeks ago I bought a 61 99B86 of ebay, and a week or so it arrive to my door, and I was wandering about that center pin being different than my other CMs. It seems that I have premiun CM!
----------
Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
|
FreeWilly
486 posts
Apr 10, 2016
11:05 PM
|
Thanks for the contributions guys.
I have no means to measure it, but it has more output than an ultimate 57 with external imt.
The glue is definitely not translucent. Also, it is not flat like in the right picture. More of a round, protruding dash of glue with a bit of a red pin sticking out of it (slightly). A bit like those round protruding areolas some women have... Actually, it looks like the left photo, but without metal.
|
FreeWilly
487 posts
Apr 10, 2016
11:09 PM
|
Also: there seem to be two layers of glue on close inspection. The described pinkish brown on top and yellow underneath.
Sounds to me like it is some sort of in-between model? It would be interesting to know when other existing 'k's' were made. This one was coded 835.
|
Greg Heumann
3208 posts
Apr 11, 2016
8:12 AM
|
This discussion prompted me to go through my entire inventory of Shure elements. (And that's somewhere around 100 elements.) I found the oldest and newest example of each model and started plotting that against the date code system to get a better understanding of it. I did find a few "K"'s while going through them.
1958 was an interesting year. I found an element labeled CR that didn't have the metal hat, with a date code of 825 - and one labeled CM labeled 838. So it is a safe bet the transition was made right then -= and a very few non-metal-hat elements were made and labeled Controlled Reluctance before they changed the name to Controlled Magnetic.
Freewilly - sounds like your element is from that transitional year. Should be a good element.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
|
FreeWilly
488 posts
Apr 11, 2016
10:08 AM
|
Thanks for that info! Now I'm even happier with my first bullet mic :)
|
