Killa_Hertz
719 posts
Mar 09, 2016
6:36 PM
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People keep telling me that getting a real one on one lesson is a great way to rapidly improve my playing.
Ive been wanting to get a Skype lesson from Ronnie Shellist and since he's having a special right now, i think imma go for it. The only problem is I have no idea what to get help with. So many topics.
I know it's kind of a tough question, but ....Anybody have any advice?
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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mlefree
618 posts
Mar 09, 2016
8:37 PM
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I sat, along with a number of other "students," at the Filisko Teach-in at SPAH in Denver last summer. He was big on the value of making the transition from playing a supportive role to stepping out in front of a band as a "next step."
He stressed how important it is for the "front man" to know basic music theory in their role as band leader. He challenged everyone to play a solo 12-bar I-IV-V blues. As an old-school total ear layer (at the time) I was so used to playing a backup role, comping with a singer, band or recording that I felt "naked" playing solo in front of Ronnie and another 15 students. I've since begun to correct my deficiencies in what you could call "stage" or applied music theory and song structure. I could follow any blues progression but I am working toward being better equipped to lead one.
Anyway that was the direction he had for the group last August. He could well have changed since then and will likely have a direction specific to your needs. The first thing he'll probably do is have you play something for him. He's very good at assessing where you are.
Ronnie has, of course, a number of lessons and examples that he sells on download or flash drive. For the money you get a ton of material. It's not structured and polished like Dave Barrett's lessons are though. It's sort of up to you search, sift and choose what you want to study.
He's a cool guy and can be quite approachable though he can shift into the schoolteacher mode at the drop of a hat. I've never had a private lesson from him so maybe someone who has will chime in.
Please get back and let us know how you fared.
Michelle
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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
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Killa_Hertz
720 posts
Mar 09, 2016
11:23 PM
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Thanks Michelle.
Yes i have almost all of his harmonica123 lessons. They are very good. More useful to me than anything on Dave Barrets site. His teaching style just clicks better for me.
Im just unsure of the wisest way to use my time.
Im not even sure how the lessons work. I assumed that you had to have an idea ahead of time. I suppose Ronnie is the best person to ask.
Still i wouldn't mind any advice from those who have done these or similar lessons.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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MindTheGap
1265 posts
Mar 09, 2016
11:51 PM
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It's a good question, the time goes by quickly and you want to get the maximum out of it.
What I did was to have something specific to play, a few phrases or a groove - not too much - and then Ronnie would comment on how to improve it, either in specifics on that bit, or in general. Give an exercise to work on this or that. He would play the same thing, but of course much better, and that was a helpful reference to have AFTER the lesson. You know, 'it could sound like this...'
For me, the value in going to a teacher is to listen to me and get them to tell me what to work on to best effect. Quite often he'd point stuff out which was different to the thing I'd been focussing on - and that's the real benefit.
What I specifically didn't want was to spend the time asking about stuff I could find elsewhere e.g. theory, or the notes of song or things like that.
My belief is that doesn't matter so much what you play in a lesson, because an experienced teacher can tell where you are at pretty much from anything! You can run but you can't hide.
Oh yes, my experience (mostly from the group classes he did) was that Ronnie was much more interested in teaching feel, groove, heart and soul than fiddly theory details. I'm sure he could do that too, but my interpretation is that he wanted to focus on the more elusive elements. Things you can't pick up from a book.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 10, 2016 12:08 AM
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Killa_Hertz
721 posts
Mar 10, 2016
12:18 AM
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Thanks MTG. Very helpful. That is more in the vein of what im looking to learn.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Fil
115 posts
Mar 10, 2016
4:43 AM
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KH, I had a first lesson with him a few days ago, responding to his 'special'. When we scheduled it, I sent him a list of a few things..."I would say I'm an intermediate player. I'm trying to add texture and precision to my playing. I've been working on TBing, mostly above 4+, and octaves. Not particularly interested on overblowing at the moment. Want to get better at improvising." We had a brief, get to know you conversation, then he listened to me play a little. From there the lesson flowed as he addressed what he heard relative to the list I sent him. I came out with a few key things to work on for our 30 minute follow up in a couple of weeks. It was great. Nothing random about it. You could tell there is a lot of teaching experience behind him. Suggest you pick a couple of things out and send to him, then let him take it from there. You'll be happy. I plan to get a lesson from him every couple of months for a while and I'd expect they'll become more specific.
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Phil Pennington
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Phil Pennington
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Killa_Hertz
722 posts
Mar 10, 2016
5:29 AM
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Thanks fil. Very helpful. You guys put my mind at ease a bit. I didn't want to waste a bunch of time figuring out what to do. I suspect the first lesson is a bit of that, but .....
I think I'll do a lesson on playing with jam tracks. That's where i get stuck alot.
I do want to have a lesson with him where he explains the nuances of his playing style. Like you i have recently started adding alot more TB to my playing. But i can't bend TB so i kinda adopted his style already.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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RyanMortos
1548 posts
Mar 10, 2016
6:00 AM
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There's a special?
I like when either teachers have a lesson plan and are open to work on other things the student asks or when a teacher can listen to me play for 10-20mins and can say let's work on such-n-such.
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~Ryan
See My Profile for contact info, etc.
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Killa_Hertz
723 posts
Mar 10, 2016
6:10 AM
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Mtg like you said i don't want to do something that can be learned just anywhere via youtube.
Do you think working on jam tracks and playing with a band is a good topic for the lesson?
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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Diggsblues
1982 posts
Mar 10, 2016
6:49 AM
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Let the teacher evaluate your playing.
Nothing worse for a teacher that tells a student
how to teach them. The teacher can help you get to where you want to go but the teacher has their own method to take you there step by step.
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MindTheGap
1266 posts
Mar 10, 2016
6:55 AM
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kHz, well, if you're asking, it's not what I'd do myself but it doesn't mean it's not right for you. Anything that gets the conversation going is good I guess. But there's lots of general advice about those topics around elsewhere.
One of the things Ronnie is great at in the lessons is if you share a backing track, he can suggest what you might play to it - suitable for your level. So if that's your question you'd be sure to get some good material.
But that's him on 'transmit', I think it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to let him hear you play (like Ryan says) and suggest some you-specific ideas.
I know you've got lots of teaching materials - the difference with a live teacher is that they can tailor the choice of what to work on to what you need right now.
EDIT: Dougharps - sorry, our posts crossed.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 10, 2016 6:56 AM
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RyanMortos
1549 posts
Mar 10, 2016
6:58 AM
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Killa, even if it can be learned elsewhere sometimes hearing it from someone else in their way of explaining it will cause an a-ha moment. I think both Michael Rubin & Adam Gussow have videos on the 12 bar blues form and how to count along with a jam track or record but perhaps working on it with someone 1 on 1 you can walk out of the lesson getting it right away or clearer then from informal, not tailored to you videos.
Don't forget you can in person lesson with Diggs or Seth in the Philly area, either could help too maybe see when they're available and what they charge.
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~Ryan
See My Profile for contact info, etc.
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MindTheGap
1267 posts
Mar 10, 2016
6:59 AM
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I'll give you a concrete example. I was bothered about my timing. Actually he said my in-the-pocket playing was fine (you know, I guess fine for my level) and what I needed to do was get OUT of the pocket to create more interest.
It's easy to get tunnel vision when self-learning, and an objective teacher can help with that. Alternatively, he could verify that you are working on the right thing.
Not saying you've got tunnel vision. I mean me, of course.
Hope this is a helpful BTW :) Everyone seems to be saying the same: play and let him evaluate.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 10, 2016 7:07 AM
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Goldbrick
1346 posts
Mar 10, 2016
7:24 AM
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you live near a big city with lots of music going on.
Why not try to find a guitar player or informal band to sit in with and really SEE what you need to improve on
Too many guys play in a vacuum and have technique that will never be necessary in a live situation
Just like the equipment fiends who dont realize the nuances are lost in a bar
If yout goal is to play for yourself or just record-- get a local teacher who values you as a student and not just a face on the internet
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MindTheGap
1268 posts
Mar 10, 2016
7:42 AM
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Ouch!
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Killa_Hertz
724 posts
Mar 10, 2016
9:48 AM
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All good advice.
Ryan I know how to count the bars and all. And actually now find that I don't really have to. The raw part isn't what i need help with, but more less i need more material. I can play decent with certain rythms, but others i got Nothin. But i just need to find more material to practice, which i can do on my own really. It's not like I've hit a brickwall anywhere, so it's hard to find a specific topic to ask for help with. I came up With jam tracks because I've started playing with them a bit more. And i thought i could use helpful advice in that area.
But I like the idea of playing and letting him take it from there. I just really wasn't sure how the whole thing would go down. Now I gotta figure out what to play. Lol. 8^/
Thanks for the advice yall. If you haven't noticed i tend to overthink everything. Sometimes it's a good thing. Some times i just drive myself crazy for no reason. What r ya gonna do?
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Mar 10, 2016 10:03 AM
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1847
3284 posts
Mar 10, 2016
9:53 AM
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are all nuances lost in a bar?..........
to a certain extent i would have to agree with this statement, i just changed a a speaker in my amp
will any one notice? not so sure. to me all 10 inch alnico speakers sound similar. however
what if someone like adam switched microphones? perhaps the average person in the audience would not notice
but most everyone here would notice a distinct difference.
I met ronnie when he was out here in calif. super nice guy.
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Killa_Hertz
725 posts
Mar 10, 2016
10:08 AM
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Having a few years of sound tech experience ... I agree for the most part that nuances are lost in a bar.
But does everyone always play packed bars With loud bands behind them? What about larger halls or outdoor gigs?
And if you're playing alone , just you and a guitar senario i think nuances are not lost at all.
So it depends i suppose.
I have fun playing with gear, but i think if your good enough (which i am not) gear doesnt matter as much.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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barbequebob
3184 posts
Mar 10, 2016
11:54 AM
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@Killa_Hertz -- If you get asked to play a little on your first Skype lesson, don't freak out about it. Why? Because many good teachers need to hear where you are as well as in what stage of development you happen to be at the moment in order for them to properly devise a lesson plan that's best suited for your needs. When I first went to a vocal coach in person for lessons, the coach asked me to sing a short phrase so she could check on my breathing and relaxation skills were at the moment, plus at the same time, paying attention to how I was forming my vowels and consonants to get the best possible tone, intonation and articulation, and that alone was an enormous amount of help. I know this is sounds more like an American Idol audition, but if you get something like this happening, don't get nervous because it's a useful tool for any teacher and when I gave lessons many years ago, I adopted this very same method so that a student didn't have to waste time and money on stuff they may not need at the moment and so it allowed me to help concentrate on overcoming their weaknesses and turning them into strengths.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Killa_Hertz
726 posts
Mar 10, 2016
4:29 PM
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Bob ... I know your right, but im still gonna be nervous. 8^) i get what your saying. And Its not that big a deal, i know, but Im still going to overthink it.
All BS aside I'm pretty hype about getting some real feedback and professional guidance. Videos only go so far.
i really appreciate you weighing in on this bob. And everyone else for that matter.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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MindTheGap
1270 posts
Mar 11, 2016
2:28 AM
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Good to do your thinking beforehand, it's free. In the lesson it's $70/hour.
Worth being aware that you probably will be nervous playing for a teacher the first time. Nothing much you can do about it. And you may feel you've fluffed it if you don't put out your best. Any good teacher will take that into account, and Ronnie certainly will.
I'm used to playing in front of other people but there is always something unique about playing for the teacher. Whitecoat Hypertension. I found playing over skype a bit odd too - so you could help yourself by practising that aspect before the lesson. Also get your ducks in a row technically - camera and mic placement. Headphones or speakers? If you end up hearing an echo then that makes it very hard to play (that's a known FACT btw, like it's hard to speak fluently with short echo).
Now you've got your vocal mics, you could use on of those for skype. Much better quality than a laptop internal mic for instance.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 11, 2016 2:36 AM
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SuperBee
3505 posts
Mar 11, 2016
3:35 AM
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Ha, reminded me about my first lesson...down the telephone to Jim Conway in Sydney. I was convinced my bends were solid. His advice? Go and practice bends and get a local teacher.
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Killa_Hertz
727 posts
Mar 11, 2016
5:33 AM
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MTG ... That's a problem i ment to address. I dont have a computer. I was going to use my phone. I have used skype on it before. However android has latency issues. I also have an ipod that i could use. If that comes Highly unrecommended, i do have access to a computer i could use. I'm sure that is a better option. I don't know why i even asked. Good advice on setting up the speakers and mics ahead of time for a dry run. Ill do that for sure.
And yes I'm kinda worried about just messing up horribly. Im also wondering if it's better to just jam a bunch of technical stuff together, just to show my level of efficiency in each area. So he can critique it, not to showoff. (Throw in some TB, Syncopated back beats, octaves, bends especially 3' & 3", etc .) Or weather the flow in general is more important. Because to jam all those things into one 30 second or 1 min improv. It will surely have to be sort of rushed and crammed in. Wont have much of a natural progression or flow.
Or maybe I'm asking to much from one lesson idk.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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MindTheGap
1272 posts
Mar 11, 2016
6:06 AM
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All much simpler when SuperBee was doing lessons by telephone! A computer is best of course. But ipod is better than android for the reason you say.
It's useful to consider what to play, but I wouldn't worry about it. For the reasons BBQ Bob laid out above. It's not a performance. Just assume that the first shot will be a fail, and go again.
Now I will tell you what I used to do. Not so much because I was nervous, but to optimise the time. I'd pre-record a short something then send him the link and we'd listen to it in the lesson. Then we'd discuss that and play things live to and fro in the conventional way.
This came out of also using his 'audio-feedback' service in conjunction with the lessons. It just gets over all the technical issues you can get with skype. And he gets to hear a decent quality sound without glitches and gremlins and fussing with microphone levels.
It's easier not to do this, but it was efficient from my point of view.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 11, 2016 6:11 AM
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Killa_Hertz
728 posts
Mar 11, 2016
7:27 AM
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Damn captcha.
Yes i thought of doing a prerecorded track. That's prolly the best.
I kno is not a performance, but i was trying to think of a way to get a sample of all the techniques i use into one track. That way, as bob said, he can give me advice based on where im at.
Again overthinking, but ill be good. I have an idea of how it will go down now. And that in itself will save some time. Can't jam it all into one lesson either i guess.
Thanks Yall
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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barbequebob
3185 posts
Mar 12, 2016
8:16 AM
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KillaHertz -- From a teacher's standpoint, if you play something prerecorded to me on Skype or in person, I'm gonna give you answer you probably won't like but needs to be said because it's very brutally honest, and that is, if you do that, how can i HONESTLY tell if it's you or not if you're not doing it directly in front of me live because that could easily be someone else playing it, sort of on the lines of lip sinching, like the infamous Milli Vannilli controversy some years back. As an instructor, if you did this on Skype or stood in front of me doing that, you immediately lose credibility.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MindTheGap
1274 posts
Mar 12, 2016
8:47 AM
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From a student's (i.e. a paying customer's standpoint) if a teacher suggested that that I was lip syncing to someone else's recording then we'd part company right away. Why on earth would a student do such a thing?
I've used this with a number of online teachers, and it gets over the technical hurdles. Since I'm playing live too, it's totally obvious it's me. Skype is ok for voice, but for music it can drop out, skip (introduce artificial timing errors) and it's low-ish quality.
Well, I suppose I'm not a teacher so maybe they see all kinds of weird behaviours. This would be very weird though.
In particular, Ronnie offers his 'audio-feedback' service which is all by recording. No one is going to pay good money to have someone else's playing assessed.
No apologies for being brutally honest.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Mar 12, 2016 9:00 AM
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Killa_Hertz
735 posts
Mar 12, 2016
9:09 AM
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I agree MTG. Doesn't make alot of sense. Who would Milli a track. What would be the point. And yes .. good point... ronnie has his audio feedback option. Ill
I'm Goin to do it so i make sure i get a good representation of my playing. Both because of the potential technical issues. And because i don't want to freeze up. I'm not going to keep recording until i get it perfect. I'm gong to leave all the blemishes in, because that kindof defeats the purpose.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
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barbequebob
3186 posts
Mar 12, 2016
9:17 AM
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Skype tends to work at its best on broadband by wither something like Verizon Fios or on cable, but at higher speeds like that if you're into gaming and since gaming chews up data, the higher speed is absolutely necessary. If you're gonna do skype on a cellphone, you want to make sure that you're connected using 4GLTE and nothing lower than that or it's like being on dialup and skype is useless on dialup internet speeds.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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