|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Harp Books
Harp Books
Page:
1
2
3
Killa_Hertz
537 posts
Feb 13, 2016
1:08 PM
|
Raven i agree. I hate sheet music. I rarely use tabs. Tabs without sound is useless anyways imo. I just want to know another positon and third sounds very cool. I like alot of the stuff J Ricci, Cotton, Clarke do in third.
As far as the theory ... I'm just the type that has to know how things work. I'm not satisfied with just doing. So its for piece of mind more than anything. But i agree that the best playing comes from just going for it and playing whatever comes to you. But you also have to have the licks and phrases built up in your "lick library" before you can just play things. So it all ties together. But i think your point is to not spend all my time learning theory and all the other stuff that doesn't necessarily make you a better player. I agree, I'm just looking to expand my knowledge a bit at a time.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
|
timeistight
1936 posts
Feb 13, 2016
1:34 PM
|
One way to get more comfortable with playing different potions is to relate them to chords instead of keys. In other words, instead of thinking "I'm playing a blues in second position," thinking "I'm playing second position over the I chord, first position over the IV and third position over the V".
|
hvyj
2956 posts
Feb 14, 2016
9:03 AM
|
Actually, thinking in terms of playing particular SCALES helps get you thinking of positions as a means of accessing the scale(s) you need for playing a particular tune in a particular key. That's the sort of thing I have in mind when I say that I view my instrument as my entire set of 12 Richter tuned harps.
Ok, but why bother with modes? The major diatonic scale (do-re-mi scale a/k/a Ionian mode) has half steps between 3 and 4 and between 7 and 8. Modes are diatonic scales where the half steps occur between different degrees of the scale which may include or differ from 3&4 and 7&8. But because they are diatonic, they are playable on a diatonic harmonica. A full 12 tone chromatic scale is not. The unavailability of a 12 tone chromatic scale which has ALL the half steps is an impediment to being able to play in different keys (for those of us who don't OB).
BUT, if you select the right MODE, it provides the half steps you need since those are " built in" to that mode. For example, say you want to play a blues in C (natural) minor. You need 3b, 6b, and 7b, but you can't get those notes in second position because you don't have, and can't bend for, 6b. You just don't have the necessary half step available.
BUT, if you pick a harp that gives you Aeolean (fourth position) or Phrygian (fifth position) mode, the 6b (as well as 3b & b7) IS available, providing you with the notes you need to play the tune you want to play. If the tune was Cm, an Eb harp or an Ab harp works, but it's stylistically easier to play with blusier phasing on the Ab harp (fifth position).
Don't be put off by the exotic Greek names. These are just a short hand way of referring to different patterns of half steps. And those patterns, for the most part, correspond to patterns routinely occurring in different kinds of popular music. For example, there is nothing more common than a tune using the major scale but with a dominant (flat) 7th. Pretty simple. If you refer to such a tune as being Mixolydian, is it any less simple? The fancy Greek name is just a shorthand label. So, if one refers to the Grover Washinton tune MR. MAGIC as "Dorian" that's just a shorthand way of saying it is a minor key tune with 3b, 7b but major 6. So, the mode names are just useful labels.
Last Edited by hvyj on Feb 14, 2016 9:28 AM
|
dougharps
1161 posts
Feb 14, 2016
9:28 AM
|
The circle of fifths is my constant reference for modes and positions. I learned it by arranging my harps in that order. The easily available mode inherent to any given position is the low hanging fruit. I go for the low hanging fruit a lot, but also stretch into other positions for interest. It isn't about proving that the diatonic can be played chromatically. It is about making good music.
You are not limited to playing just the mode built into a position. You can use bending and overbending to access other scales in a position, but the mode inherent in that position can let you play some songs more easily. It is called a position because if you use bending and overbending you can start any scale starting on the note linked with that position. But there is a mode associated with that position.
I use modes all the time, even with keyed chromatics, and chromatics have all the notes. Some songs can be played relatively easily in several different positions, and sometimes I switch positions in a song. However, I believe in experimenting and using your ears to choose which position(s) you prefer for a song. Using the modes helps you pick positions to try out.
I would suggest putting on a song and trying different keys of harps to see which modes in which positions fit best in your mind. Some modes may offer a limited number of notes if you don't overbend, but that is OK. Avoid the "avoid notes." You can try it out and see what you can do with just those few notes.
Ultimately, I think theory is a very useful tool in music for playing and as a means of communication. However, I strongly believe in learning by PLAYING.
My advice is, don't get caught up in thinking musical math all the time, PLAY the damned thing!
----------
Doug S.
|
hvyj
2957 posts
Feb 14, 2016
9:37 AM
|
Yeah. If you've got a good enough ear, all this theory stuff is not that important. But, at least for me, it sure helps me out in picking the right harp on which I can just play on a particular tune. If you get the right position for the particular material, sometimes the tune almost seems to play itself. But, YMMV.
Last Edited by hvyj on Feb 14, 2016 10:15 AM
|
timeistight
1938 posts
Feb 14, 2016
9:37 AM
|
@hvyj: It's too limiting to try to one mode Throughout a song, unles the chord progression is very simple. For example, what one mode could you use to improvise over these chords?
Am
I am a poor wayfaring stranger
Dm Am
While traveling through this world of woe
D7
Yet there's no sickness toil nor danger
Dm G Am
In that bright world to which I go
F C
I'm going there to see my Father
F C E7
I'm going there no more to roam
Am
I'm only going over Jordan
Dm E7 Am
I'm only going over home
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 14, 2016 9:40 AM
|
hvyj
2958 posts
Feb 14, 2016
9:46 AM
|
Oh, I absolutely agree. I am only suggesting that identifying a mode that provides the important notes required to play a particular tune is helpful in selecting what position to use. I am not recommending that the player should restrict himself or herself to only the notes comprising that mode when actually playing the tune.
Ya know, on PWS, I've been playing that tune by ear for a while, and I knew it modulated to a major on the chorus, but in my stupidity, I never realized it was the relative major, so I would lay out on the chorus. Live and learn...
Last Edited by hvyj on Feb 14, 2016 9:53 AM
|
timeistight
1939 posts
Feb 14, 2016
10:02 AM
|
Okay, I misunderstood what you were saying then. Sorry.
|
hvyj
2959 posts
Feb 14, 2016
10:05 AM
|
Nothing to apologize for. The clarification is helpful.
|
Post a Message
|
