Now I'm playing more and really enjoying it I'm seriously close to buying a decent valve amp and retiring the little Fender SideKick 15 Reverb for good! I've found the following here in Australia. A new "Tweed" Fender Blues Junior 15w for the equivalent of US $777.00 at a music store just down the road. Comes with a 5 year warranty and is as handy as can be. I've had a chance to play it using my Green Bullet with volume and I really liked what I heard, but after the Sidekick anything is going to sound better!
I also found a second hand but as new Fender 68 Princeton Reverb for similar money.........but the Celestion speaker has been changed to a 20w American heritage "Veteran" speaker and was claimed this was an upgrade. I've checked out both the Celestion site and the original fit was a Ten 30 which is a 30w speaker, yet the American Heritage speaker is only a 20w unit and both seem to be around the same price point as spares. The asking price is much the same as the brand new Blues Junior. This one is a 2 hour drive away, no real problem but there's fuel and there's $40 worth of tolls plus fuel and it is second hand
The 3rd option I've seen about 1 1/2 hours drive is a Fender Blues Deluxe reissue which is now a 40w amp. It's the tweed finish and looks like it's been cared for but this is only $570
Princetons are great. Don't worry about speaker wattage ratings: the lower-rated speaker might sound better. Besides, I don't think Celestions are well-thought of for harp.
I've never played a Blues Deluxe but I'd be worried that 40 watts into a single 12 might be prone to feedback.
I don't care for Pro Juniors as harp amps, but lots of people seem to use them.
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 06, 2016 12:35 AM
I have a tweed blues jr (some sort of limited edition relic'd tweed with a mojotone black beauty speaker) and, while I don't play my harp through it often, I think it sounds pretty good. It sounds great for my guitar as well. The size/weight is great. Just make sure the reverb tank is plugged in the right way or you'll get a crazy buzz, ha.
...but I wouldn't pay $700+ for one. If you go to reverb.com, you can get them for less than $500. I am not sure how much shipping would be, but even at $100 or so you would still come out cheaper. Not only that, but many of them come with BillM mods, which really open the amp up from what I hear. Of course, no warranty (other than reverb's built in stuff) but I like ot live life on the edge.
Those are great options if you have the means. But there are also less expensive options.
For example the VHT Special 6. You can get one for under $200.
There are many other options, but this is just an example.
The thing about tube amps is they have to be really cookin to sound great. Unlike a solid state. 15Watts is alot. Too much for home use. I think. Depends what your using it for ofcourse. But i just wanted to put that out there. If you want it for home use i believe you ll be disappointed when trying to find good sound at reasonable volume. ---------- "Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
I sold an amp to someone in AUS so I am aware that any imported amp is going to carrying a premium because of tax and shipping is also a big cost so dealing with Reverb or Ebay is going to add big cost.
The Blues is a good choice for what you have offered. I have played thru a few of them and once you dial your tone in, they are pretty nice and have some punch to them, better than a 5 watt amp.
If you want a 5 watt amp, go check out "Harmonica Gear" on FB, they always have a running commentary on the latest and greatest 5 watt amp.
Go with the one that sounds good to you. Good luck.
Princeton would be my choice for all around use and great tone. If you are gigging with a reasonable bunch of folks, the Princeton will do the job. I doubt you will have any trouble with the speaker, wattage wise.
If you are playing with a loud ass band and aggressive drummer you need the Deluxe. The Deluxe is a strong machine with a bold versatile tone. If you want clean and loud, you will have it. Not so with the smaller amps. Yes, you can mic the small amps but that does not help you hear it on stage. That Deluxe cab will fit 2x10's if you are so inclined and to me, that would be a viable option. The Deluxe is not going to give you that broken up kazoo tone that seems to be so popular with harp players. You can get pedals that will do that.
Yes, the Deluxe will feedback easier because it is louder! Feedback is caused by your mic hearing your amp. Pretty simple! You will learn to work thru this as all good players do. Good luck...BN
Yes, intended use is important. I am in Aus, understand amp prices here do not translate to US. I recently sold a hot rod deluxe for around $600 (maybe $700...there was a trade involved so a little hard to say). Had it not sold i would have been happy to use it, but i would have modified it some. The 68 princeton i assume is thd reissue. My buddy has the reissue twin and deluxe. The deluxe is his favourite amp ever...he is a guitarist...all i am saying is that those 68 reissues appear to be great som great work from fender and id expect the princeton to also be very good. My silverface princeton is a 78, and i am very happy with it, with a weber speaker...but application is limited to gigs where it can be heard properly Blues jr i have not used, but i recall people here at one time were full of discussions about how to make them work for harp...now apparently we love them... That deluxe will probably be a little touchy around the volume knob...they tend to jump sharply between 2 and 3 iirc
Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 07, 2016 4:25 AM
I'd go with the Princeton. It's not intended to be authentic to the original nor is it the same as the reissue. It has less negative feedback and the tone stack is leaning more towards a Bassman so it has more bass response than the original which is not a bad thing. US made Schumacher transformer like the original and the full size reverb tank and tube driven vibrato sound terrific. I like the Eminence Lil Buddy best with it.
Hang on...I'm trying to understand "nor is it the same as the reissue"...oh I guess you mean it's not the same as the 65 reissue. Well, yeah...not much sense releasing the same amp just for different aesthetic.
Blackface Princeton Reverb Reissue. Played one for the first time a couple months ago at Guitar Center. Great harp and guitar amp, also 15 watts The best part is they are holding there value very well. Downside with any amp under 40 watts is playing with a loud band.
The Blues Jr is pretty good for harp without mods, but there's a lot of design issues with them and they don't have a high resale value like the PRRI.
Went to a Harp Blowout a couple years back, Magic Dick was using a Deluxe they supplied with a Blues Blaster, the tone was impressive to say the least.
You may pay a little more now for a PRRI, but I guarantee you will love it for harp and it's money in the bank if you ever decide to sell.
No experience with the 68 Silverface reissue. I'm guessing it would be good for harp, but lacks the power like the others.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Feb 06, 2016 7:32 PM
Okay It's not for home use, it is for gigs and the band isn't a loud band. If I needed more volume the harp amp could be run through a pa depending on the gig and venue size.
One of my problems is I haven't played with any other amp combo options and at now 63 I want to get something decent I can enjoy cause
We are also doing a bit of studio work in an improvised studio and needless to say the little solid state fender just isn't cutting it sound quality wise. I got to play the Blues Junior Tweed and really like the sound of it and it's a good price for it here in Australia, it's also a very safe buy as the shop is literally only 5 minutes down the road and it's putting money into a local shop.
The 68 Princeton Reverb Reissue has been messed with and now is non stock and the seller is firm at US $777 and a brand new one is only an extra $317. I basically ruled out the second hand one as I'm not sure what else has been done to it if the speaker has already been swapped out by what only appears to be a similar quality item and that it was being used for guitar work and not specifically set up for harp work. All I've got to do is now decide if I can afford the extra money for the 2nd hand Princeton Reverb Reissue that I can't play without a 2 hour drive, or go the safe option with the Blues Junior Tweed. It's all the big wraps the 68 Princeton Reverb gets here that's got me undecided, then again I've definitely ruled out the Blues Deluxe as being too loud. Tweed Blues Junior or 68 Princeton Reverb Reissue? I don't think it will be a mistake with either one.
so is that 68PR ...actually $1100 AUD? man...but a new one is $1550?
soz, i missed that the 1st time..
and theyre asking $1100 for a blues jr in the shops now? wow...
if you get the new one, i hope you really like it because you will drop dough if you want to resell...
new amps are like new cars...look at the cat with the 68PR...he has put a new speaker in and is still dropping $450 on an amp that cant be much more than a year old...like 30%..is he supplying the original speaker? he should...
The Blues Junior is the Tweed version which is the US hand built one as opposed to the Mexican made black case one. It's a much more expensive amp than the standard blues junior.
I'd also be getting a full 5 years warranty.
You have to remember the ass has fallen out of the Australian dollar too. It's no longer anywhere near par, it's around the US$.70 to an Aussie dollar.
yeah i guess...is that warranty transferable? doesn't seem so long since i financed $1400 for a new LTD Hot Rod Deluxe...2010 model, purchased late 2012 ... sold for $700ish in late 2015. speaker in that amp retails >$400 in Australia...
Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 07, 2016 4:26 AM
I own a Blues Deluxe, and the thing is impossibly loud for my kinda band situation. I recently got a '78 Fender Vibro Champ (posted about it in the forum a few weeks back), which is great for my purposes: home use and small band gigs.
Princeton is the perfect balance between not rattling the windows in your own house and not struggling to hear yourself at a gig.
What's more, my buddy just got a 68 Princeton RI, and I got to play some harp they it the other day. Pure bliss. Should also hold its value.
Okay, looking like a done deal. I'm going to go with a second hand 68 Custom Princeton. You've all convinced me. Picking it up on the weekend. Thanks for the help everyone
I would of saved myself a lot of money if i had just ponied up and bought a Princeton in the first place. Go for it. Please report back on how it works for you.
Last Edited by indigo on Feb 07, 2016 9:42 PM
Don't know where you are John, but I'm on the Central Coast NSW and have a number of new and used valve amps you could have tried if you were in Sydney. leatherlips@westnet.com.au
I can think of a couple reasons you might buy a guitar amp rather than a 'harp amp' If your in Australia, the dough that John just dropped on his amp would maybe get you a 5 watt 'harp amp'. You would be looking at big freight costs to make any warranty claim, and if you didn't like the amp after all, you'd have a tougher time moving it on, because the market here is really quite small for such amps. Eg, a fella here was just selling off some old Princetons and a 50w meteor. He ended up letting the meteor go for $1600 iirc...that's Australian $, about 1100 of your USD. The Princetons were snapped up at his asking price, which was not cheap. $2400 for the tweed. And this is a country where a blues Jr costs $1100 in the shop. A new Bassman is like $2400. A secondhand bassman RI is considered a bargain at $1300...get on it quick! Whereas a newish Deville may go for $550 in USA, here we would think maybe $900-$1000 A harp amp...something like the HT10 or MM landed here, not much change from $1100 if any. HG2 more expensive still.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 08, 2016 4:12 PM
This genuine Sonny Jr. Combo amp is in mint condition. This Amplifier looks fantastic, functions perfectly and sounds absolutely amazing. It was used for about a year (approx 30 hours) and was never exposed to a smoking environment.
This is a Sonny Jr. Four-Ten 40 watt boutique tweed pattern tube amplifier. The amplifier cabinet features finger jointed pine and the electronics are point to point hand wired. Featuring a triple blend of speakers. One ribbed and one smooth coned Weber P10Q and two Eminence Legend 1058 give this amp a versatile, amazing sound. Great for Harmonica and Guitar players alike. This amplifier comes with Web Bias Rite Meter, NOS Astron Capacitors, extra tubes for fine tuning your sound, padded Tuki cover and complete detailed original manual.
says here it is great for guitar or harp. if i was looking for a harp amp this would be a top pick for me. ---------- .
the sonny jr. amp everyone is looking at it but no one bites. is it because people are afraid if they buy it for 2 grand they may have to sell it at a loss sometime in the future? is it because there is just not enough demand for a loud harmonica amp? is it because the economy is doing so poorly? a decent amp is one of the first things i ever bought. no regrets there.
I looked at importing a 2nd hand amp from the US BUT you have to add shipping, and unless the power transformer is a dual voltage you're looking at a new power supply. The other big expensive catch for us in Australia is anything over $1000 invoice value (That's only US$700, then take out $200 for shipping! and your left with only 500 for the amp)And that Aussie $1000 includes any shipping costs, it's plus 10% plus another fee to raise the paperwork to get it through customs! There's no value in buying an amp from the US, there are simply too many additional costs.
I'm hoping to pick up the 68 Princeton Custom this weekend. It's a long drive and a lot of tolls but if the amp doesn't work out for me, which I'd be very surprised from reading the reports here and other harmonica players advice here in Australia, I'll have an amp that as already has been said will have a wider appeal than a dedicated Harp amp and be easier to on sell.
Joe Glover, one of the Backsliders harp players gave the Lone Wolf Harp Train 10 a big tick of approval and also recommended the Lone Wolf pedals and I will definitely be looking at the pedals later on once I've got the amp in my hands!
I've just got to be patient and wait for the weekend to pick it up.
Last Edited by John M G on Feb 09, 2016 3:51 PM
Here in the U.S. we've got dedicated harp amps like HarpGear, Mission, Lone Wolf, Memphis Mini all at reasonable prices. All developed by harp enthusiasts. Sounds like you fine folks down under would benefit from an Aussie made harp amp. Somebody must want to give it a go.
Lots of good amps out there. Lets face it, there are many guitar amps that can sound dam good for harp with just a few dollars worth of parts and a little knowledge. If I made big money playing harp I'd have something like this SJr, maybe. Then again not everybody likes the sound of harp dedicated amps. Most are Chicago oriented. I saw CM not long ago. Great player and stately gentleman with a fine supporting band. He was using a big Cruncher. The amp was a one trick pony that I tired of well before the show was over.
I don't think it is the economy. The lack of demand for a loud harp amp is definitely a factor. There is an unusually large number of fine harp players on this site. How many of them play loud gigs with any regularity? True pro harp players are a rarity indeed, and so is the need for pro gear...BN
People look into it from time to time...The market is very small. USA population is 15 times Australia. And the community interested in harp amps, is proportionally higher again in USA. I don't know how many units are sold in USA, but if Rick sells 400 MM amps per year for instance, in Australia a similar unit would be very lucky to sell 25. I'm guessing it might sell 10. You need a certain turnover to pay the fixed costs. I'm not sure it's quite there. As a result I think Aussie harp players tend to diy.
I think it's all about what you're doing...and really about what's happening with your mic AND (more importantly) your hands. I like non-master volume Fenders--either Tweed or pre-CBS blackface (or reissues) or slightly modified silverface amps. My main harp amp right now is a slightly rebuilt 70s Silverface Vibrolux. I play a lot of bigger stages though and clubs where I'm having to cut through a band and loud guitars. The thing peels paint on 2.5 on the volume but can easily sound good much lower. On other hand, I have a good friend who uses a blackface Twin (holy crap on the wattage, eh?) for all of his gigs and never lacks for tone even--even when he's in a smaller club with his amp on 1.5 to 2.
My feeling...get a good solid non-master volume amp in the 40ish watt range...and learn to use the resonance of your hands for tone and grit. That's what the key is. You can overdrive those higher wattage amps with the right mic and technique and 40 watts is good for most all situations. I've used that amp at festivals on big stages and real small clubs.
Here's where I see guys get into problems--They want THE tone (honkin grit and drive, etc.) SO they buy an overdrive channel guitar amp and try to crank things to get the tone that way. AND THEN...they run into horrific feedback issues on some stages and in some venues to the point where they can't play...I've seen it. Don't be that guy... ---------- www.bigroadband.com
I have a 69`Champ, 67`Twin and a 78` music man 2x10 60/30 w. I have used the music man 90% of the time,at 30w. and the master vol. cut back a little,so I can push the vol. up to 7/8 and this amp works great for harp,a big honk...no pedals just amp...you cam get one for $400.
Last Edited by nowmon on Feb 17, 2016 7:34 AM
Well the big amp part I was referring to was Toneguy and Nowmon's posts.
So, what amp was used in the Coyote's link? That sounded good! The player makes it good of course.
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 17, 2016 6:54 PM
Just played through my buddy's black face Fender Twin Saturday night. That's a hell of a harp amp. I know the wattage is scary but what he did is replace the 12" speakers with 2 Eminence 10". It was really great tone and not as loud actually as what I had figured it would be. We ended up having to mic it to cut through over an un-mic'd Twin re-issue the guitar player was using. ---------- www.bigroadband.com
It's a done deal. I bought second hand. A 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue. May have to look at a new microphone, the green bullet 520 D I have seems to be old tech these days. It looks like I'll also need a pedal or two. I've been jamming with a friend this afternoon and I may also have to replace a couple of the valves, we did a quick swap out with some of his and it was better. Initially I thought it was too bright when playing solo when I got it home. I changed my mind once I'd been jamming along with Roy later, though I wouldn't mind a slightly creamier sound.
All in all I'm very happy and while it may take some time to dial in fully, it's a keeper ;-) Cheers JG
Personally I'd say you don't need another mic at all and that the 520D is just perfect for that amp. And unless you're playing something other than blues I wouldn't bother with any pedals either. Bottom line is that if anyone is playing straight blues through a Princeton Reverb and using a bullet mic and struggles to get 'that sound'. Then the fault lays in their technique and not the gear or lack of it.
When you replace the valves I'd look at keeping them in the stock values. I've found that a Princeton sounds much better with the stock set up. JJ's are good valves for the Princeton. As are NOS if you can get them at decent prices.
I much like the JJ 6V6s as I have stated in several threads. The JJ 12AX7 is somewhat dark but this may work well in a bright amp. The Tung Sol 12AX7 is a fine tube and has more definition and sparkle IMO. You may also want to consider a NOS 5751 in V1 for a warmer tone. This will not change the gain structure of the amp in a significant way.
What you initialy perceived as bright will translate into cut and clarity on stage.
You seem like you would like new gear to go with your new amp. I get that. Go slow and do your research as you did for the amp. The fine players on this site will help when ever possible.
Have fun!...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 21, 2016 6:47 AM
