Header Graphic
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > OPINION TIME! which effect pedal would you choose
OPINION TIME! which effect pedal would you choose
Login  |  Register
Page: 1

Popculture Chameleon
131 posts
Feb 03, 2016
4:04 PM
I have really been rethinking everything when it comes to the kind of effects that I will use with a new harp train 10 amp with jj tubes I just bought (eagerly awaiting delivery conformation) - I figure 4 pedals would be a good round number
I want a delay a harp tone a looper pedal and one other pedal to round out some effects. and that's where I am stuck which one would you guys choose- honestly I don't think I need a overdrive pedal with the balls circuit on the amp so I have a few options like flanger or phase shifter- tremolo- does anyone have any ideas or thoughts to help me out
let the debates begin...
Barley Nectar
1111 posts
Feb 03, 2016
4:23 PM
I played for 20 yrs with no amp or pedal. Then I bought an amp. After 30 yrs I bought a Arion SAD-1 delay. Now it's been 43 yrs, still use that same pedal only, but I do have three of them. There is a lesson here but to each his own!..BN
Killa_Hertz
421 posts
Feb 03, 2016
4:51 PM
I don't know what your going for. The last pedal could be anything. I would say one pedal that is pretty great is the BBE sonic maximizer. Everything else depends on what kinda jams your playing. There's infinite amounts of combos to choose from.

But as BN was saying, the K.I.S.S. method is under rated.
----------
"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."
bonedog569
987 posts
Feb 03, 2016
5:20 PM
Delay, Reverb, Octave - is how I run anyway.

I don't own a harp tone or Harp Train amp - but I would hope with the Harp Train, you wouldn't need the Harp Tone - which is meant to compensate for the standard eq of guitar amps. I'd wait on that pedal and see if you think you need it after getting your amp.

I personally like having reverb as an option to the delay, - and I often use a bit of both. I'm very happy with my WET reverb pedal by neunaber (which Greg turned me on to at his Redwood City Jam).

I also like my TC electronic Flashback Delay, - which also includes a simple looper. Unfortunately, you can't use the looper and delay at the same time though. When you pick a delay, I suggest getting one with a 'tap tempo' feature - which keeps your delay sounds in tempo with the song. On the Flashback you do this by holding down the foot switch button - and tapping the beat into the mic. On other pedals you tap on the pedal itself.

I have a POG octave pedal that I don't use that often, but it really brings a different sound to the table when I do. - just my .02
dougharps
1145 posts
Feb 03, 2016
5:33 PM
I always thought delay was good with harp and used delay for a while. I have two of them that I don't use for gigs anymore.

I tried a Bad Monkey distortion pedal that I used at a gig once... it was OK, but I don't use it these days.

I used a chorus for a while for a couple songs a night... I don't use it anymore, just use octaves and vibrato techniques.

My Gibson GA-18T has tremolo. If I play out with it I may use tremolo on one or two songs while playing chromatic octaves.

I have an early modeling pedal with effects, Digitech Genesis 1, that I used for a couple gigs a while back and on Frank's Roller Coaster improvisation challenge a while ago. It is handy if I am recording, like in the challenge. I like that it has knobs for controls. I don't play out with it anymore.

I have a TC Helicon vocal pedal with really good reverb, decent delay and other features... I don't use it at gigs.

These days I either play straight to a tube amp or through the PA, though I sometimes sit in using my EH 44 Magnum.

I like creating effects through techniques while cupping a mic. Mic, amp/PA, techniques...

code=chewpm
----------

Doug S.
hvyj
2930 posts
Feb 03, 2016
6:48 PM
TC Electronic Vortex Flanger. VERY versitile. But it seems to me that one buys a harp specific amp like the HT 10 for certain tonal characteristics, not necessarily as a pedal platform.

In general, the fewer pedals the better. But, fwiw, the biggest effects board I use these days has: TC Electronic Helix Phaser>EH Micro POG>Strymon Lex>Vortex Flanger>Xotic EP Booster>MXR Carbon Copy Delay.

I have a small board that has MXR Micro Amp Plus>EP Booster>TC Electronic Flashback Delay. Btw, I use the EP Booster as an always on preamp, not as an effect.

Now, I occasionally do a sideman gig with a loud (but very musical) guitar player who wants me to get a "raw" harp sound. To do that, I use the following: 545 Ultimate>Squeal Killer>Peavey Delta Blues. No effects, just straight into the tube amp thru an anti feedback box.

It is a question of the right tool(s) for the right job. Don't get pedals just to have pedals. Have a reason and a use for each pedal you decide to acquire. Certain pedals get along better with certain amps. For example, I wouldn't use a phaser with a harp specific amp.

Also, certain pedals work better in combination with certain other pedals, and using pedals in combination can be way cool. Be cognizant of how these devices affect your tone when that are NOT engaged. True bypass helps, but anything in the line will affect your tone to some extent, even when it's not on.

Last Edited by hvyj on Feb 03, 2016 7:39 PM
indigo
216 posts
Feb 03, 2016
8:10 PM
You've bought the wrong amp if you want to experiment with pedals.It is designed for more traditional players,eg Chicago style blues.
I have one and only use a delay pedal.
Not saying that they won't 'work' as such but you could find any number of amps that would fit the job better if you are turned on by pedal effects.In a good sense the Harp train is a one trick pony imo.
jbone
2145 posts
Feb 03, 2016
8:58 PM
All I ever wanted or needed is a delay, if anything. I had a Boss delay years ago and let it go when I got my first tube amp. A few years ago I got a Lone Wolf delay and it's all I need.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
Little roger
128 posts
Feb 03, 2016
9:38 PM
Watch out for the Boogieman!
SuperBee
3351 posts
Feb 03, 2016
9:54 PM
yes i'm also curious about the choice of tone plus...i would expect it to be somewhat redundant with the HT10.
Delay is nice. i have a LW Octave that i used to like but rarely use anymore. and a LW Reverb which i am tending to use more often these days (Thanks Indigo!) i didnt use it for a long time because the amps i was using had fairly acceptable spring Reverb on board, but now i'm using some smaller amps and after using the reverb amps i've developed a taste for it

but really, beyond those common effects...i just dunno...i quite like that thing Carey bell used to have...what was that? some kind of rotary organ...and a chorus can be nice. you wont need to worry about distortion. i tried a flanger and i didnt really like it but maybe in the right context...i just think the synth can do all that stuff so much better, if thats the kind of sound you want why wouldnt you have a synth...well ok...$$ and key skills i guess...
Popculture Chameleon
132 posts
Feb 04, 2016
6:21 AM
@SUPERBEE- the harp tone plus was the first pedal I bought when I didn't have a Ht 10 amp.If I wont need this pedal once I have my amp I will just put it on a shelf- I already have a delay pedal as well. the looper is self explanatory- the final pedal was for me to explore with new sounds I have given serious thought to a phase shifter but wanted some other input from other players-
For those that keep saying you don't need pedals just good tone- while I agree with part of this statement- you need good tone- well I find it rather ironic when players on here look at pedals and scoff at them especially since players like Jason Ricci- Berthon- and John Popper have a whole smorgasbord of pedals and they manage to break out into the mainstream and still sound good doing it
There is a reason that certain musicians are considered icons and legends- they forge their own sound by breaking the old school mold- as if to say- to hell with doing things like this- Im doing it my way and people not only like my style but love it-FOOD FOR THOUGHT
NathanLWBC
79 posts
Feb 04, 2016
7:24 AM
Obviously, I'm biased towards extensive pedalboards, but using pedals with the HT10 certainly isn't redundant. I can tell you, though, the Harp Tone+ is fairly unnecessary. The only thing I could possibly think to use it for with the HT10 is to give a clean boost for solos; that's about it.

Certainly, I have a particular brand in mind ;) , but I'll just list types of effects that could achieve some good results.

-Delay (which you already have)

-Reverb (sounds amazing when used in conjunction with a delay)

-Some sort of octave/fuzz/odd distortion (the HT10's breakup sounds really great on its own, and you are unlikely to want another overdrive or distortion type pedal. Something out of the box like the Harp Octave, though, will go a long way to distinguishing your tone for solos, lead breaks, etc.)

-Chorus (we don't currently make one, but a chorus can add a lot of variety to your tone. I'd suggest something like an EHX small clone because I've seen clones of it have really good results for harp.)

----------
--Nathan Heck
Lead Technician, Lone Wolf Blues Co.
customerservice@lonewolfblues.com
Greg Heumann
3169 posts
Feb 04, 2016
8:02 AM
Which pedals would you choose? Not the same pedals I choose. Unless you want to sound like me. Simple as that. There can't possibly be a right answer to this for you.

I will say this. Many, many beginning harp players make the mistake of believing the reason they don't sound like the pros is that they don't have the right pedals. "I'm not getting that cool overdriven sound.... hmmmm - an overdrive pedal sounds like what I need."

NOT!!!

That overdriven sound comes from a good amp and mic, but only when used with proper technique. It is the technique part that doesn't come so easily. You don't NEED ANY pedals to get that tone and the more you mess around with them, the longer it will take you to realize this.

Now - many people DO use a delay or reverb pedal. And, if you're after a truly altered more electronic/modern sound, or a way too change things up during a long set, fine. Pedals are fun. I'm not saying DON'T use pedals. But a) don't expect them to manufacture your basic tone for you and b) pick the ones that then help you alter it to YOUR taste.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg

BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
HarpNinja
4209 posts
Feb 04, 2016
9:55 AM
I LOVE pedals and use a full pedalboard with a range of time based and modulation effects.

I am not a fan of pedals for pedal's sake - especially redundant tone shaping pedals.

Way too many players are stacking pedals like the HT+ and Sonic Maximizer between quality mics and amps. I don't see the value to this in regards to efficiency and overall tone.

Without knowing your mic, you have an amp voiced for harp. The HT+ is going to cut highs and boost bass to an extent, but that amp was designed for harp to begin with. Then, the SM is going to add presence back in that may cause feedback, effectively compensating for the compression of the HT.

If you are going to buy a pedal, get a delay. I would shy away from reverb if you at all fear feedback. Then, I would look at modulation to vary your sound.

Octave pedal
Rotary pedal
Auto wah
Another delay with modulation

These effects sound great with harp, won't add feedback, and the audience will hear the difference.

Feedback killers are a great investment IF needed. Honestly, they don't help too many small amps get louder or more distorted anyways. If you are feedingback with a small amp you need a cleaner/larger amp or a mic with a smaller pick up pattern.

*EDIT: I am a huge proponent of developing your base sound by finding the harps you want to play, then your perfect mic, then your perfect rig, and then your desired pedals.

Your mic/rig should be as simple as you can get it to be.
----------
Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog

Last Edited by HarpNinja on Feb 04, 2016 9:58 AM
hvyj
2931 posts
Feb 04, 2016
11:08 AM
+1 on delay into reverb>delay. I use the reverb on my tube amps.

True confession: I can't figure out what use the LW Harp Octave is made for. I borrowed one from a friend for a couple of weeks and it seemed to just be a very wimpy clean boost, not powerful enough to push my SRRI into any sort of tonal alteration and having no tone shaping qualities of its own. But people who use bullet mics seem to like them, so it must do SOMETHING musically useful. I just can't figure out what that might be.
Diggsblues
1959 posts
Feb 04, 2016
11:36 AM
I tried a B9 pedal and it's great. I tried it with chrom and diatonic and I can definitely play like an organ player.
----------
NathanLWBC
80 posts
Feb 04, 2016
1:03 PM
@hyj...Our earlier Harp Octaves were a little more reserved than the newer counterparts, and like all drive pedals, changes in input level will change how it sounds. We use a standardized input to set the gain in the ballpark of a generic bullet mic.

Delay into Reverb really is a great tone. On the demo board we bring to conferences, trade shows, etc, we have the Harp Delay and V2 Delay feeding into the Harp Reverb.

@Diggsblues...Jason Ricci told me it didn't track all that well. Have you had the same experience?
----------
--Nathan Heck
Lead Technician, Lone Wolf Blues Co.
customerservice@lonewolfblues.com
SuperBee
3353 posts
Feb 04, 2016
1:12 PM
I haven't used octave for a while but I recall it as quite a powerful pedal hvyj.
The volume would provide a boost if wanted.
The effect level can be adjusted from quite subtle to totally dominant.
It's an octave up. It fattens the sound with an added cut, there is a clip to it, quite different to the harp break.
One of the bonuses I remember was that it enabled me to get louder without feedback. I've seen this reported from several other users.
At some point I decided it was Unnecessary and perhaps a little harsh if 'too much' effect was applied but with effect around 10-11 o'clock was pretty good, and could be used to give a volume boost for breaks or a more aggressive tone for variation as appropriate.
Thievin' Heathen
670 posts
Feb 04, 2016
1:30 PM
I can't endorse the Zoom MS70-CDR at the moment. The screen went out on mine and I had to send it back to the shop. YRMV.
Georgia Blues
200 posts
Feb 05, 2016
9:15 AM
Delay is really great to have. I saw Madison Slim playing with Doug Deming and The Jeweltones and he had a Boss OC 2 or 3 octave pedal through a Baseman that sounded really good. I am about to pull the trigger on one of those pedals…. Only wish I could afford a baseman.
Diggsblues
1960 posts
Feb 05, 2016
10:27 AM
@nathan MY friend said he had worked on the tracking for guitar. I played a lot of super fast runs on chrom and diatonic and it tracked well. I guess the only thing is to go and try one.
----------
pdxharpdog
3 posts
Feb 05, 2016
12:13 PM
I do not have your amp, I have a Mission 50 w with 12" that I love. Prior I had a Harp Gear 30 - that I also loved but needed a bit more oomph.

I also have a fairly extensive pedal board, including the LW Delay, Harp Break (used for solos) LW Tone plus (used to eq different harp keys - lower the highs for high harp keys and up the highs for low key harps)

I also have the Sonic Maximizer that makes everything crisper and clearer and I couldn't live without it.(thanks Jason Ricci)

I also have the Kinder anti-feedback pedal and it works great to eliminate feedback in smaller, crowded stages/venues. I wouldn't go onstage without it.

There is one pedal I don't have that I'm thinking about and that's a reverb. Can't speak to the value of reverb, but when I record in Logic Pro I always add a bit of verb as well as delay.

The one pedal I really LOVE is the Electro-Harmonix micro-pog - I can't tell you how awesome it is to kick that pedal in on stage with the low octave knob turned up and little or no octave up in the mix. All of a sudden there's this huge and thick bottom to my sound that fits well with some of my band's tunes. I'm careful not to overuse it, but I can tell you that the audience get's this look like "is THAT sound coming from the harmonica player?" when they first hear it.

Pedals are not the solution to tone, but they sure are fun to experiment with. If you are gigging every weekend, they can liven it up for yourself and the band.
dougharps
1150 posts
Feb 05, 2016
12:34 PM
@hvyj
Do you have any recordings of the TC Electronic Vortex Flanger in use with harp? I am having a hard time imagining it... particularly its versatility.

No feedback issues?
----------

Doug S.
hvyj
2933 posts
Feb 05, 2016
1:38 PM
Doug, it has 4 control knobs and a three position toggle switch, so there are endless possible settings and sounds. It is close to feedback threshold but very usable and harp friendly. Works well alone and in combination with my other pedals. I don't have it in front of me right now but I turn the bottom right knob to off, leave the other 3 knobs at noon and set the toggle switch all the way forward. Very nice timbre and texture that is not identifiable as a flange. True bypass and when not engaged it's transparent. Not at all "in your face" when it's on.

Need extreme cut on a stage with loud, effects laden guitars? Put a Leslie simulator (like the Lex or Hammond G Pedal) on slow and engage the Vortex behind it and you will cut through anything without sounding extreme or obnoxious--just subtly textured. VERY versatile. Ok, u won't sound like Little Walter, but it's not 1955 anymore either.

Last year I posted a vid of me playing behind a black female singer named Michelle. She called me the other day and asked if it was ok to post a vid on FB that she took when she was in the audience at my primary band's latest gig at the end of the show when a guest singer/ guitar player came up and did Purple Rain and we jammed out on it with my regular guitar player morphing into Third Stone From the Sun before we closed it out. As I recall, I used the slow speed roto pedal into the flanger trick to get sufficient cut to hang with the two guitars. If she posts it I'll try to repost it here. I'm going to be sitting in at her gig tonight, so I'll ask her about it. She's pretty cool.

Last Edited by hvyj on Feb 05, 2016 3:58 PM
blueswannabe
599 posts
Feb 05, 2016
6:19 PM
reverb or delay, but not both together. The harp break is excellent to help give you some distortion. But as Greg said above, amp, mic and technique will help most.
gmacleod15
267 posts
Feb 06, 2016
5:50 AM
Joyo American Sound. Discussion on a recent thread convinced me to try one. I don't considered this an "effects" pedal...to me it more like fine tuning for my mic (vintage Shure GB).

I have tried it on several low watt amps and it helped on all. I am now louder without feedback. It lets the amp really honk as opposed to a chime sound when near feedback threshold.

I also can get the overdriven sound easier (with good cupping) but loosen the cup a bit and sharp clean tone is available.

I found that I get best results when I set my amp tone control towards having more highs, then I add bass and mids through the pedal.

All for less than $50 delivered to the door.
----------
MBH member since 2009-03-24
hvyj
2939 posts
Feb 07, 2016
2:34 PM
@Doug: if you want an idea of how the Vortex flanger sounds, listen to the original COLD BLOODED MAN by Sugar Blue on the From Paris to Chicago compilation. He's using a flanger on that tune.
dougharps
1153 posts
Feb 07, 2016
3:18 PM
Thanks for the tip, John! I checked it out.

Those are interesting sounds used effectively by Sugar Blue, but it wouldn't fit my approach at this time.

Thanks again!
----------

Doug S.
hvyj
2941 posts
Feb 07, 2016
7:00 PM
Doug, I understand. FWIW, that's just one of many sounds you can get from the Vortex. I don't set mine to have it "splatter" on deep bends like SB, but I could if I wanted to. The salient point is that this effects pedal responds to technique, which IMHO is desirable. Be that as it may, I prefer a contemporary sort of sound, anyway. Not every one does.


Post a Message



(8192 Characters Left)


Modern Blues Harmonica supports

§The Jazz Foundation of America

and

§The Innocence Project

 

 

 

ADAM GUSSOW is an official endorser for HOHNER HARMONICAS