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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Best Low F ?
Best Low F ?
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asilve3
146 posts
Jan 27, 2016
6:28 AM
I am wanting to pick up a low F harmonica. I haven't had one in many years. I am curious who which one you think it the best value? I was considering the thunderbird crossover but for around $100 it doesn't seem like it it could possibly be worth it (not the double low f just the low f).

Thoughts?
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AJ Silverberg
www.hearaj.com
LSB
180 posts
Jan 27, 2016
6:42 AM
I have a number of Thunderbirds, including some customized by Joe Spiers. All of Joe's are amazing. The non-customized Tbirds are still very good, but honestly, they are over priced compared with the competition IMO. Suzuki seem like the best low harps for the money right now.
kham
51 posts
Jan 27, 2016
6:43 AM
Manji for sure is the best value. Mine was set up pretty tight out of the box. Plays really nice. Responsive and fun to play. I find the thunderbirds cost prohibitive therefore they are imaginary to me and don't play as well as the one I can afford. That's the blues I guess... I'm sure thunderbirds play well when they aren't make believe. But for best value I can't se the thunderbirds being that much better than a Manji unless they improve your technique for you!
SteveTech
37 posts
Jan 27, 2016
6:51 AM
I've been using a Manji low F, and I like it. Like you will see elsewhere, it had a bit of a taste at first, but it wore off. Now it's fine.

If you're looking to buy more than one, Rockin Ron's has this nice deal. I just took advantage of it and added a low C and D to my set.

2 Manjis and a Case


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-Steve
Gnarly
1622 posts
Jan 27, 2016
9:43 AM
Two things worth mentioning – –
All Suzuki harmonicas come with a one-year warranty, which covers reed failure.
Also, the low F Manji is now available with the new cover plates that are bigger on the bottom, to avoid the draw reeds rattling against the cover plates.
All the new low Manjis are bright and airtight!
Killa_Hertz
367 posts
Jan 27, 2016
12:42 PM
I just got a Low C Low D set of Manjis from Rons. I like em Alot, but they are my first Low harps so I can't really compare. But they play well. I did tighten em up a lil bit. But i think the low reeds on them maybe should be loose, because it took away a little of that resonance caused by the reeds traveling so much. Basically took away alot of that slappy sound. So i may gap them wider, back to how they were.

I liked them so much i bought a Low F from Brandon Bailey. It should be in the way soon.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 27, 2016 12:45 PM
Harmonica Lewinskey
118 posts
Jan 27, 2016
2:54 PM
I have a Seydel Session Steel in low Eb that plays really well. I seem to have really good luck with the Seydel Session Steel harps, they always play nicely right out of the box and if you don't like the orange comb just get a Seydel Session standard with black comb for around $30 and then get Session Steel replacement reed plates for another $30ish and for nearly the same price you get a black combed Session Steel with a backup set of brass reed plates!!

There are other harps that seem to have a bit more "rasp" and character to them, which is nice if you are playing acoustically, but I prefer the clean warm sound of the Session Steel for playing through a mic.. You can add the dirt from the amp, mic, pedals etc.. To each his own though, the Manjis that I tried where all too tight and un-responsive for me.. Could've just been bad luck, but I haven't experienced that yet with a Session Steel.. And they really do seem to stay in tune and last longer..

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-LeWin$key
Raven
65 posts
Jan 27, 2016
3:27 PM
I throw my hat in with the first five responses. My Manji's travel with me in the passenger's seat wherever I go and I am partial to the lows. I use a few SP20 lows as well, but since Hohner stopped production in favor of the more expensive T-Birds, Manji is my first choice.
Harpaholic
799 posts
Jan 27, 2016
3:42 PM
Hands down. Session Steel!
Gnarly
1624 posts
Jan 27, 2016
5:08 PM
I have a Seydel Low Low F I built with reed plates from Ron and an Orchestra comb/coverplates I got from a friend. It's a good harp, but I don't play it.
Come to think of it, the harp in my kit is a SP20.
But one year warranty anyway, dadgum it . . .
harpwrench
1054 posts
Jan 27, 2016
7:07 PM
I make low F's from standard Hohners if what's available doesn't flip your wig.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
Harp repair and upgrade menu

Last Edited by harpwrench on Jan 27, 2016 7:14 PM
Gnarly
1625 posts
Jan 27, 2016
8:47 PM
I bet if I sent Joe my Low Low F I would play it more often . . .
STME58
1539 posts
Jan 28, 2016
12:03 AM
I have a Session Steel low D, a Manji Low C, and an 1847 Noble low F. They are all good harps. All of them have needed repair but that probably says more about me than the harps. I would say my favorite is the 1847 Nobel, but I am not sure if it is the style of the key that causes me to prefer it. Low F seems to be a sweet spot where the draw bends are not too hard to achieve but the blow bends are easier than on higher harps.
SuperBee
3299 posts
Jan 28, 2016
2:13 AM
havent played a low manji but of the 1847, session, and thunderbird theres no question i prefer the thunderbird with the 1847 a reasonably acceptable second. i'm no fan of the session/steel.
i have a low D big river and a lo Eb marine band 1896. no competition there for the thunderbird either, although with these low keys, i really dont know that its realistic to compare across keys. my low eb 1896 is ok apart from chamber 1 and that is about me rather than the harp i'm sure. although there is light streaming through the back...
ive seen some other low tuned 1847s and special 20 and hohner 365 harp...
i do think the tbird is rather too dear, but is the best in my experience. but, again, have not played, smelt, felt, seen. looked at or stood next to a manji
mlefree
540 posts
Jan 28, 2016
4:22 AM
I have SP20 and T-Bird low Fs. Functionally I find no difference. Too bad the low key SP20s are no longer. I dislike steel reeds.

If I were in the market, I'd be asking Joe to make me a low F SP 20. I'm certain they'd be far better than the originals!

Michelle

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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
harpwrench
1055 posts
Jan 28, 2016
4:44 AM
I did basic gapping on a Manji and t-bird low C and low D a couple weeks ago, both played really nice. Not custom nice but very good for OOTB.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
Harp repair and upgrade menu
Goldbrick
1287 posts
Jan 28, 2016
4:50 AM
I have a delta frost that sounded great out of the box. bends easiliy and was about $30- from MF

Also have a Stve Baker special which is very cool=people really dig it when I busk

I dont know if they had a warranty-

it seemed like the SBS was built better than the average marine band with a nicer looking wood comb
SuperBee
3300 posts
Jan 28, 2016
4:54 AM
ive had a couple 365s in here for repairs. both had aftermarket combs, both real nice harps. i enquired about getting one but local distributor was not encouraging...i'm still keen.
hvyj
2925 posts
Jan 28, 2016
6:41 AM
Best OOB low F is the Suzuki Firebreath. Nothing else comes close, including TB, MBD, Hammond, Manji or Olive. Haven't tried Session Steel, though. Comb on the FB is superior. Of course, Joe Spiers' low Fs are even better.

TBs are very good, IMHO, but like most OOB harps the combs are not consistently flat.

Last Edited by hvyj on Jan 28, 2016 6:47 AM
shakeylee
496 posts
Jan 28, 2016
7:43 AM
if i was in the market for a low F,i would buy the just fabulous plates from ron's,and build it up on a zajac or blue moon comb.i don't think F is low enough to require the bigger cover.

the just plates are great and it would be a fantastic harp.these plates are only $32. i have stock combs around,i should get low F.

http://rockinronsmusicsd.com/suzuki-reed-plate-set-for-fabulous-just-tuning-f-20j.html
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www.shakeylee.com
hvyj
2926 posts
Jan 28, 2016
7:52 AM
Low F absolutely doesn't require the bigger cover. I don't understand why low F# is not a standard harp rather than high F# . Low F# is more practical since high F# approaches dog whistle territory.
HarpNinja
4193 posts
Jan 28, 2016
8:02 AM
I have a LF Special 20 from Joe as I don't trust my soldering skills. It isn't customized, just tuned. It plays fantastic and rounds out my SP20 set. No need for a modified cover plate.

hvyj has an Olive LF on a metal comb. It plays really great, IMHO, but it was flattened and gapped. The brass Seydel low harps stink. The 1847 are really nice, but the SS is breathier.


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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
HarpNinja
4194 posts
Jan 28, 2016
8:04 AM
I should share that I've owned at least the following LF's:

Joe Spiers tuned SP20
Filisko custom SP20
Manji
Olive
TB
MB
Big River
1847
SS
Blues Favorite

The only sucky one was the brass Blues Favorite. The Session was way better, but they are breathier OOTB and more muted sounding than even a SP20.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog

Last Edited by HarpNinja on Jan 28, 2016 8:05 AM
Gnarly
1626 posts
Jan 28, 2016
9:57 AM
Hvyj opined:
Best OOB low F is the Suzuki Firebreath. Nothing else comes close

Well, then, you better get on it, as the Firebreath is being phased out.
It's the rosewood, stupid . . .
I would buy one but I still have a spare SP20 LoF I bought when Ron was closing them out.
Ron can probably hook you up, but get your wallet out, the Firebreath is probably the same price as a TBird.
Goldbrick
1289 posts
Jan 28, 2016
10:03 AM
isnt rosewood toxic ?
rogonzab
879 posts
Jan 28, 2016
11:06 AM
I have a Manji Low F and plays great. and they are not that expensive.
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
Harpaholic
806 posts
Jan 28, 2016
11:21 AM
I happen to own one of Joe's Low F Special 20's set up to be close to a stage one.
I also own a SS in Low F, the Spier's harp is another level, but all the SS I own are great OOTB harps. I have tried and own all of the major harps, and there good, but it still comes down to personal taste.

I only recommended a Session Steel, because I thought you were asking about an OOTB harp. My Spiers Low F was not a lot more than a SS and a much more responsive harp.

Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jan 28, 2016 11:28 AM
barbequebob
3127 posts
Jan 28, 2016
11:55 AM
If you've got one of those Big River ones, if you order the reedplates for the Cross Harp model, those will fit them and the plates are thicker, and they outplay the stock BR ones.

However, the holy trinity for OOTB playability for any of the low tuned stuff in no particular order are the Seydel 1847, Suzuki Manji and the Hohner MArine Band Thunderbird, and outside of a good custom harp from a top customizer, none of the others are remotely close to playing as well as those three.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
A440
507 posts
Jan 28, 2016
2:15 PM
Session Steel.
mlefree
543 posts
Jan 29, 2016
4:11 AM
If you like the Hohner SBS, you'd love a Seydel Solist Pro Steel 12. Much nicer sealed wood comb, screw construction and it's significantly smaller so you can cup it. You only lose the top two holes which I always thought were too squeaky to use on my Hohner SBSs. Priced right, too.

Michelle

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SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.

Last Edited by mlefree on Jan 29, 2016 4:12 AM
dougharps
1135 posts
Jan 29, 2016
8:59 AM
I will discuss all my low harps since I have not bought that many and only use them occasionally. I am coming to enjoy them more recently, particularly Low F and Low F#, and this thread is of great interest. The price of OOTB Thunderbirds is a deterrent.

I had a Low F Promaster for years that was difficult to play and discouraged me about low harps. With the plates finally moved to a different comb it was improved and is OK.

I have a Seydel Silver 1847 I put Low F plates in, and I like it a lot! I just bought Low F reed plates and borrowed the comb and covers from a different key 1847. It is my favorite low harp.

I have a Hohner Low F# MBD (no longer available)that plays great. I agree with hvyj about the lower F# harps: they should be the standard F#.

I have Low F# MBD plates (no longer available) on a modified Crossover comb that is pretty good, too.

I have a Big River Low F# that is difficult to bend, and my Big River Low E and Low Eb are worse, but that could be in part because they are lower keys and I need to woodshed some in those keys. I picked them up at SPAH 2014 at a bargain price. However, I have always found Big Rivers in any key to be more difficult to bend notes.

Since I like Manjis pretty much and I like Session Steels pretty much, I will probably buy low keyed plates for one or both of those and try them out. If I buy lower keys than Low F, the new Manji low harps having deeper bottom covers sounds very interesting at that price point.
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Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Jan 29, 2016 9:10 AM
barbequebob
3130 posts
Jan 29, 2016
9:11 AM
On those Big Rivers, order the reed plate sets for Cross Harp model version, which uses a thicker reed plate and they'll play better, but from personal experience, they're still nowhere near in the playability class of the Manji, T-Birds or 1847's by a mile and a half. Still, a custom version of any of those will outplay anything OOTB by 100 country miles.

Woodshedding when it comes to low pitched harps is extremely important and the worst thing you can do is get macho and try to force the bends or overblows using more breath force because it accomplishes absolutely nothing but frustration, and what you need to do is make VERY SUBTLE adjustments to both your embouchure as well as the inside shape of your mouth and work on committing it to muscle memory. The Big Rivers have a disadvantage that the bottom cover plate doesn't have a designed in wider clearance as does the T-Bird, Manji and 1847's do which prevents the 1 draw from rattling against the cover plate when played too hard.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
digitalshrub
18 posts
Jan 29, 2016
1:43 PM
I have only one low harp: a Suzuki Promaster in Low F.

I'm not really a fan, but it was my first Promaster so now I know it's not the right style for me. Bends have been difficult (that might just be me getting used to a low harp), but I really dislike the metal comb.

I think I'd go with a Session Steel, knowing what I know now. Love those harps.
webfoot
4 posts
Jan 29, 2016
3:13 PM
Session Steel with 1847 covers.
1847
3149 posts
Jan 29, 2016
3:16 PM
Session Steel with 1847 covers. yes indeed....

and if they ever go on sale.... a blue moon comb.
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i
Harpaholic
809 posts
Jan 29, 2016
3:27 PM
Ditto what 1847 and Webfoot said.

I Forgot to mention that part. The SS are great harps stock, but better with 1847 covers.
Harmonica Lewinskey
119 posts
Jan 30, 2016
4:35 AM
Do the 1847 covers change the sound of the SS at all? I personally love the shape of the covers on the SS. They fit in my hand much better, and more airtight than any other harps, and they slide in and out of my pocket much easier too. I wouldn't give up my SS covers unless it reallllly improved the tone of the harp a ton. Unless you are swapping them out purely for aesthetic reasons, which I totally understand being a designer and all, but I don't really care as much about how my harps look as I do with other things. I am the only one who really ever has to see them. Its not like a guitar or other instrument where everybody is looking at it the whole time you are playing it. I guess its function over form for me when it comes to Harmonicas, lol..

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-LeWin$key
STME58
1541 posts
Jan 30, 2016
7:52 AM
Seydel covers also fit Lee Oscars.
Killa_Hertz
390 posts
Jan 30, 2016
10:22 AM
And visa versa. I put LO covers on my A SS. I think I'm Goin to change back because the LO covers feel cheap. Seydel should make a version of SS that comes with 1847 covers. Like the Silver+ was

Edit: just to be clear, I put Lee Oskar covers on my key of A SessionSteel. (NOT my ass ... LOL) i was Goin to change it, but thought it was kinda funny typo.
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"Trust Those Who Seek The Truth. Doubt Those Who Say They Have Found It."

Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jan 30, 2016 10:26 AM
Rustys26
53 posts
Feb 01, 2016
12:57 AM
I have a Session Steel that I really really like a lot. I only have the one Session Steel in a low F, but I hear they are really quite good for the standard range of keys as well.
ME.HarpDoc
109 posts
Feb 01, 2016
3:25 PM
I have a low F in an Olive and a low D in Thunderbird. I don't think the coverplate would make much difference in the low F. I like the feel and heft of the Olive better than the TBird but I'm not that experienced yet in the low harps. Love the sound of both.


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