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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Key C# = A harp in 5th position.
Key C# = A harp in 5th position.
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Jim Rumbaugh
1185 posts
Jan 21, 2016
11:02 AM
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Last night at the local Blues Society jam, I was playing bass while my 2 friends played harp. The leader called out, ”key of A flat”. My 2 friends left the stage. We carry the tradition 5 to 7 keys and they had no harp to use. Later in the night I was playing harp. The leader called out, “Digging a Ditch, in C sharp”. I thought a few minutes.
C# = A harp in 5th position.
I realized I could play minor over a major blues tune. I wasn’t flashy, but I put in my 8 bars of lead and did some “horn licks” with octave splits off the 2blow and 1 draw.
So the lesson I learned for those “bastard keys”
C# use the A harp for 5th
B, use the G harp in 5th
A flat, use the harp E in 5th
F# use the harp D in 5th
I don’t have a good one for E flat, but I carry an E flat (for first position) and a B flat (for 12th position), so I’m not gonna worry about that one.
This is also another reason to learn 5th position
I hope this helps you out in a “jam”.
Jim Rumbaugh
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Leatherlips
359 posts
Jan 21, 2016
1:55 PM
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5th is one of the best positions to learn. Still, I would have trouble remembering about the sharps and flats and which harp to pick up.
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SuperBee
3268 posts
Jan 21, 2016
2:10 PM
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Just the key of the note in blow 2...the 3rd of the scale for which the harp is named, or the 6th of the second position key...is how I remember it.
An Ab harp is good to have I think. Eb is 'not-all-that-uncommon'. And there's a nice 1st position number by Stevie wonder to play along with.
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DannyRanch
57 posts
Jan 21, 2016
2:29 PM
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Great, thanks just noted those.
I like the sound of 5th position, but I don't know much bout it, any suggestions to learning scales or to transpose ideas?
All I have is the 5th position blues scale. but learning licks is difficult
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SuperBee
3269 posts
Jan 21, 2016
4:37 PM
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Probably some licks not too different to 2nd position Danny.
1 draw is a flat 7, 2 blow is your root, 2 draw/3blow is your flat 3rd and 3 draw a 5th...and you can bend the 3 draw for the flat 5th and 4th...and major 3rd
Above that, the 4 draw is your flat 7.
Then you have root again in blow 5, flat 3 in blow 6, major 3rd the 6', and 4th draw 6, 5th in draw 7, flat 7 in draw 8 and octave blow 8...
There's gotta be some licks in there...just mess around with it for a while, remembering where the roots/tonic notes are, think about your second position licks and see how they translate. For instance a shake between 3 and 4 or 7 and 8 draw is the equivalent to the 2nd pos 4/5 shake..
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WinslowYerxa
1032 posts
Jan 21, 2016
7:12 PM
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A lot of second position licks can be played in the key of fifth position: for instance, you could use a C-harp to play second position licks in E minor.
HOWEVER: Draw 5 can sound really sour (same for Draw 9 an octave higher), so try to find licks that don't include that note.
Also, unless you're playing an actual minor-chord blues, Blow 1, 4, 7, and 10 will probably sound weird.
Getting rid of those notes, you're left with the five-note G major pentatonic scale - which also happens to be the E minor pentatonic scale - same notes, different home note within that scale.
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Winslow
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timeistight
1918 posts
Jan 22, 2016
8:17 AM
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You can play the major pentatonic scale in fifth, too:
2 blow, 2 draw half-step bend, 3 draw step-and-a-half bend, 3 draw, 4 draw half-step bend, 5 blow.
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Mighty Slim
53 posts
Jan 22, 2016
10:14 AM
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In fifth, you can play the melodies of "St. James Infirmary" (start on two blow and work up) and "Black Magic Woman" (start on 8 blow and work down) across basically three octaves using only easy bends. I found that a good way to learn where the useful notes were in that position.
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