Benares
1 post
Nov 16, 2015
8:00 PM
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Hi all, just seeking advice on small to mid sized tube amps that operate well for harmonica. The amps must be available in Australia as that is where I live. I have tried tube amps a couple of times before with no success, probably due to my selecting unsuitable equipment. The most recent time was using a Vox AC30, which had no bottom end whatsoever, even when I turned the bass up full, with mid range up some and treble down to a min. This was a few years back but that is my memory.
The amp I use at present is a Roland Cube 40 that I bought back in 1981 or thereabouts. It is a transistor amp but gives a good tone with the bass to the max of 10, middle to 7 and treble at 3. With this set up, I use an Electro Voice PL6 (pencil mike from 1983) and an analogue delay pedal, and get a reasonable sound. The thing is that I would like something a little fatter. I do not want to change the mike, as it has a beautiful warm tone, and I don't want to sound dirty, just fuller and fatter, if you know what I mean. Any advice greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance.
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SuperBee
2967 posts
Nov 16, 2015
9:00 PM
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There is a guy in Aus at the moment selling a couple of really excellent small amps. They aren't cheap though.
One is 1956 Princeton, the other is a 1974 Princeton. 5 and 12 watts respectively. $2400 and $1400
I have a couple for sale also, but not in that class.
But you may be more interested in new amps?
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shakeylee
433 posts
Nov 16, 2015
9:05 PM
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interesting about the ac30. i did a lot of recording for one particular band and used their ac30 on several different albums. it was very bassy!!
anybody down there buld 5e3 clones?
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www.shakeylee.com
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dougharps
1048 posts
Nov 16, 2015
9:26 PM
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That mic appears to be a low impedance mic. Are you using an impedance converter before going into the pedal? If you put a low z signal into a high z pedal or amp you will get thin tone without much bottom.
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Doug S.
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Benares
2 posts
Nov 17, 2015
12:10 AM
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Thanks heaps guys.
Dougharps, thanks for that suggestion. You are certainly right about the Lo-Z signal from this mike, but I am reasonably happy with the tone I am getting from the Cube, which has plenty of bottom end if I use the settings above. Signal doesn't change much if I don't use the delay apart from the actual absence of delay. I just want it to be fatter. I do have an impedance converter I used to use for a vocal mike so will give that a go with the cube and see what happens.
Hi Shakeylee, that is bizarre isn't it? Truly, I turned up or done everything I could to get a bottom end with no success. I know it can't be due to the mike as I do get good bottom end on the cube. Will remain a mystery for now.
Hi SuperBee, thanks for those suggestions. Probably a bit out of my price range as I was thinking maybe about $1500 or thereabouts.
Cheers everyone.
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rogonzab
841 posts
Nov 17, 2015
6:44 AM
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Fender pro junior
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
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Greg Heumann
3129 posts
Nov 17, 2015
8:31 AM
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One word. Bulletini.
Seriously. I think your mic is more of an issue than the amp.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Nov 17, 2015 8:32 AM
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rogonzab
842 posts
Nov 17, 2015
9:48 AM
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If you have an amp that you like, why not jut buy the HarpTone+ if all you want is more bass?
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
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hvyj
2823 posts
Nov 17, 2015
12:10 PM
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Peavey Delta Blues 1x15 30 watts. Astonishingly good harp amp.
You must swap out the 3 pramp tubes for (in this order)
12AT7/ECC81 12DW7/ECC832 12AT7/ECC81, but that's all you need to do. Very versitile, excellent volume before feedback and great fat tone. Can stay clean or get dirty. Takes pedals well. About $700 US.
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 17, 2015 12:18 PM
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alaska129
4 posts
Nov 17, 2015
5:15 PM
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A good mic from Greg, maybe a zoo or a VHT special 6. If that doesn't give you the tone then you'll know it's not the equipment.
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Benares
3 posts
Nov 17, 2015
6:08 PM
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Thanks to everyone for that advice. Perhaps to my detriment I am going to (for now) stick with the EV mike. I have been using it for more than 30 years now and love the warmth it delivers, but want "more" of it. I get enough lower end using the cube but want it fatter, for want of a better word. I play in a duo, and, as well as blues, we do rootsy stuff and also a bit of alt folk so I don't want the Chicago blues sound all of the time. I will def follow up on the impedance converter suggestion from douhharps, and also try out the Fender Pro Junior and Peavey Delta Blues in a the music showroom in the near future, and will take my Cube along for comparison. If they have a demo available I will also try out the HarpTone+. Cheers and thanks to all.
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shakeylee
434 posts
Nov 17, 2015
8:30 PM
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fender pro junior is a nice choice.one of my favorite modern amps. totally different than a blues junior,which is an amp i avoid.
just giving you a heads up because some confuse the two.
what part of australia are you in?
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www.shakeylee.com
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Benares
4 posts
Nov 17, 2015
9:11 PM
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Hi shakeylee, I live in Perth, on the west, and a long way from all of the other cities over here. I get over to Melbourne on the east coast every now and then, and get a chance to check out a couple of good harp players over there, Ian Collard and Chris Wilson. Thanks for differentiating between the Pro Junior and the Blues Junior. You in US, Aust. or elsewhere?
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jbone
2072 posts
Nov 18, 2015
3:40 AM
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I am in a duo as well. We either play all acoustic or amped. We use a small p.a. and small tube amps. When I need more clean and clear I play into the vocal mic, when I need a bit of overdriven tone I use a Fender Vibro Champ or Silvertone 1482, with either a hot dynamic hi z mic or a Shure 585 hi z mic. Mostly I use the Shure since it mounts in a standard mic stand and delivers well across the board. We sit to play since Jolene cannot use a guitar strap.
You don't need to part with the EV, just add a mic and an impedance converter! Maybe a pedal or two to fatten up. Lone Wolf makes good stuff.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
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shakeylee
435 posts
Nov 18, 2015
12:18 PM
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hi benares! yes,i am in the US. i am a philadelphian,but play all over.
the reason i asked what part of australia is,i was trying to find an amp near you :)
plus,i have those pesky australian friends. haha
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www.shakeylee.com
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1847
2904 posts
Nov 18, 2015
2:00 PM
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shakeylee
what is it you do not care for with a blues jr?
a friend of mine has 2 of them. bone stock
we quite often use one or even 2 of them
he has a harpking and i have a vintage bassman
so it is not like we have to use one.
sometimes we plug straight in, sometimes with a kinder antifeedback pedal.
just depends on the venue, and the overall volume
of the band. it seems to work well in certain situations.
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Benares
5 posts
Nov 18, 2015
4:27 PM
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Thanks for those comments jbone. Yes, I also like to go through the vocal mike for a really clean sound, only way to go for some of our songs. I will definitely try out the impedance converter. Might give that a go this weekend. In the meantime I think I am going to take my time, try out a few different amps, including those you suggested if available, and see which one feels best. Who knows, maybe I will wind up back home with my trusty little Roland Cube, as that is hat has happened the previous 2 times I ventured into the world of tube amps.
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SuperBee
2971 posts
Nov 19, 2015
1:24 PM
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Yep, I can guarantee you won't be especially impressed with any hi impedance tube amp if you plug that mic in without an appropriate impedance matching transformer. Of course, you may not like the sound of the mic anymore once you have it working properly with the amp.
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Barley Nectar
951 posts
Nov 19, 2015
5:18 PM
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+1 for Supe...BN
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jbone
2073 posts
Nov 21, 2015
7:08 AM
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I've owned about a dozen amps and played through probably a couple of hundred. Most were old school, the current wave of purpose-built harp amps are tempting but I have stuff that works and I'm on a budget.
I've had 2 solid state amps, one of which I dressed up a bit with a digital delay and it improved its tone some, one of which- a Pignose 7-100- had a cool tone but no variation since all it had was a volume knob. Neither had that warm rounded tone that a hot hi z mic and a particular amp provides. I also had Peavey's answer to the Fender Bassman, a Classic 50. It had a solid state rectifier which was not easily changed for one more harp friendly. Squeal is the enemy, and in the process of taming the feedback you can lose tone. It can be a vicious circle. I rarely work with a lot of volume these days although the last cd we did we brought in a minimal drummer and a great bass player, and the result was very pleasing. Recorded in our tiny living room, there was no need or necessity for big volume. We used the Vibro Champs for all of it.
I've had some duds in tube amps for harp as well. Some are just not going to match the frequency of a high z mic even with tube swaps.
The little Fenders we currently use in the duo have some adaptability, with bass and treble knobs, plus tremolo as well. All of these provide variable for a given song. I use the hot input and have not swapped any tubes since it's a good fit just like it is. The 8" speaker allows the early breakup we harpers like so much, and Jolene is in love with hers for guitar too.
I'd say just carry your mic and try every amp you find, and maybe invest in a hi z mic as well. Shop Shop and Shop some more! Remember too, different rooms, street corners, humidity, temp, all can influence the over all sound of an amp. Whatever you get you can always trade off for something later too.
There's no time like the present to begin searching and experimenting!
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
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hvyj
2824 posts
Nov 21, 2015
8:46 AM
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Using an impedance matching transformer to play a lo-z mic into an amp is an absolute necessity, not just something to try out. EV mics like yours have a distinctive fat warm midrange response that sounds terrific for harp. But one thing to consider is putting a in line volume control on the mic.
Many tube amps need to be turned up to a certain level or "sweet spot" in order to sound their best. Being able to attenuate the input signal from the mic by using a VC allows u to turn the amp up to its sweet spot in order to get the best tone out of the amp without feeding back. Of course it also lets u control performance volume.
What I particularly like about my Peavey Delta Blues is its versatility. But u MUST swap out the preamp tubes. You would also need to spend some time fooling around with different settings to understand what you can make the amp do. Some of the amps recommended in this thread provide great blues tone. But if u are playing other styles of music too, that may not be the tone u are after. You probably need an amp that does more than one thing well. Being an electric player requires that you spend time with your equipment in a non-gig setting to learn how to get the best sound(s) out of it. Of course what sounds good in your living room may not sound right at a gig for a number of reasons. But at least you give yourself a reference point from which to make the necessary adjustments. FWIW.
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 21, 2015 8:48 AM
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shakeylee
437 posts
Nov 21, 2015
2:31 PM
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in answer to 1847:
i guess you have better luck with them(blues juniors) than i do!
for one thing,i don't use effects(other than kinder AFB),so the built in reverb is not a selling point to me. .
also,i am very bad with too many knobs. i like how the pro junior just has volume and tone.
the circuit is different in a pro junior and a blues junior,and it is very easy for me to get my sound with a pro junior.
BUT,i don't mean to insult the blues junior,i just find the pro junior to be a better amp.
i like the idea of a pro senior.that's when you take a pro junior chassis and put it in a larger pine cabinet with a 12" speaker.
although i am happy with a bone stock pro junior.
i have done nearly as many gigs on my pro junior as i have on my bassman.i have probably done more gigs on my pro junior than i have on my masco. any of them are fine and rarely let me down.
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www.shakeylee.com
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shakeylee
439 posts
Nov 21, 2015
2:58 PM
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however ,the OP wants to sound clean-ish from what i understand.
the rock inn ,in perth,has a peavey deuce(a big,loud amp) for $500 AUD. bang.
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www.shakeylee.com
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Benares
6 posts
Nov 21, 2015
4:58 PM
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Hi shakeylee, thanks for that info. The Rock Inn is very close to where I live. I will check it out. Have a great weekend.
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hvyj
2825 posts
Nov 21, 2015
6:00 PM
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I used to have a Blues Jr. I sold it to get a Princeton Reverb Reissue when those first came out. No regrets. IMHO the BJ was too high gain to be used comfortably for harmonica even with tube swaps. Great amp for guitar, though.
Also, I thought the solid state reverb on the BJ sounded tinny. This was before the Ruby Tubes after market reverb tank came out. Because of the small size required you couldn't upgrade the reverb tank because there was no replacement tank available that would fit. So, I had the existing tank bagged which helped, but only a little bit. However, on the plus side, the BJ is a fairly versitile little amp even if it is too high gain for my taste.
Last Edited by hvyj on Nov 21, 2015 6:03 PM
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1847
2913 posts
Nov 22, 2015
9:22 AM
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i had planned to use my bassman yesterday
but i was a few minutes late, and my buddy was already setting up his blues jr
since he was playing the first set, i figured, i could bring
out my amp a little later. we ended up using the blues jr the entire day. it for the most part held it's own. we played using 2 or 3 different mic's.
next time we will use the bassman, but at no point did i say, the heck with this, and walk out to my car to grab it.
it could of easily been on stage and working in one minute flat.
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Kingley
3964 posts
Nov 22, 2015
9:39 AM
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I used a Pro Jr for years and have played through a Blues Jr a few times. Although not my first choice for a harp rig, I'd use either amp and not complain. Between the two though personally I prefer the Pro Jr.
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1847
2914 posts
Nov 22, 2015
10:11 AM
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i should probably add that not all blues jr. are created equal.
i have played thru a few tweed ones, that were awful sounding.
must have a different speaker perhaps.
also not sure on how reliable these amps are,
the tubes i believe are attached to the circuit board.
sometimes you can find an similar amp in that price range
that is point to point wired. just have to look around.
i have very little experience with the pro jr.
but i also prefer 10 inch speakers
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blueswannabe
583 posts
Nov 23, 2015
8:07 PM
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@benares, are you gigging with this amp? VHT produces great tone right out of the box with no mods! it has a 10 inch speaker. If you swap speaker (eminence legend) sounds great but not necessary. it's very affordable. I swapped my VHT speaker for the legend and replaced tubes with USA NOS. I also used a 12AY7 for the preamp instead of the 12ax7 to lower the gain a little.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Nov 23, 2015 8:15 PM
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Destin
148 posts
Nov 26, 2015
7:59 AM
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I'm all about the new Harp Train from Lone Wolf
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hvyj
2829 posts
Nov 26, 2015
2:22 PM
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I tried a VHT a few weeks ago. If you are after distortion this amp will provide it, and it is a nice tight distortion not just a bunch of slop. But that's the extent of what it can do. Too small for gigging unless it's mic'd.
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Barley Nectar
954 posts
Nov 26, 2015
5:22 PM
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I AB'ed a Vibro Champ and a VHT Sp 6 a few months ago. Very similar tone wise, VHT had slightly more honk. Champ slightly cleaner. Probably has more to do with speakers then anything. Either would be a good choice for a small amp. If you plan to gig, get something in the 20-40 watt range...BN
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WindyCity
5 posts
Nov 29, 2015
5:24 PM
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Check out the new Windy City amp from Sonic Pipe amps, its custom designed for harmonica, not a converted guitar amp...
The Windy City is really howlin’ some fierce tone at an extremely low price of $375 plus shipping. Sonic Pipe Amplifiers have designed the paramount of small amplifiers with its astounding array of tonal attributes at various settings. You will hear tone ranging from 1940’s warm crunch, the 1950’s tweed tone, and the 1960’s crispy gain. With an independently designed circuit that includes features like no other amplifier, we are confident that this amplifier will hit the spot. The Windy city was manufactured in China and has been completely rewired and internally redesigned in none other than Chicago, Illinois to deliver the most versatile and striking amplifier to date.
The Windy City Features
1. 1x8 combo with choice of speaker.
Here at Sonic Pipe Amplifiers you have 2 choices of speakers, rather than one.
The Weber Signature 8” Ceramic stock
The Eminence 8” 820H Alnico( $25 upgrade)
2. Brightness Cutoff Switch
The Windy City is not feedback resistant but is easily tamable with very simple settings. To tame the high end even more or to achieve the possibility of cutting more high end, we have included the Brightness cutoff switch.
This can be used in conjunction with any setting on the amplifier and we find it quite useful.
3. Bias Switch
This switch is designed to play at different bias settings and is intended to be used when changing the power tubes. After testing around with it, we have found that there is even more tonal diversity with mismatched tube and bias settings.
4. Switchable Power Tubes
The 6V6 and 6L6 power tubes are included with the Windy City amplifier. This is a genius option, which broadens your amplifiers tonal capacity.
5. 6SJ7 Octal Preamp
This was a recommended preamp tube from our experienced tester to say: “Hey let’s do something different.” Or “Everyone else uses the 12A series of preamp tubes.” This also opens the door for earlier and more of a vintage sounding tone.
6. 6X4 Rectifier
Similar to the 5Y3 rectifier, the 6X4 has been included in a lot of the vintage amps that we have had experience with.
7. Built In Lineout
It is simply that, plug it into any Public Address System and go!
8. Tested from an experienced Blues Harmonica Player
Our testers have donated their time and suggestions to pave the way for this amplifier to be possible.
9. One of a kind circuit
A lot of boutique amplifiers today have copied previous circuits and sound great with plenty of reasons for doing so. The Windy City has a distinct sound of its own and gives you everything that a 1x8 combo can deliver. This amplifier is completely hand wired with no printed circuit boards at all.
www.sonicpipeamps.com
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isaacullah
3099 posts
Nov 30, 2015
9:57 AM
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Howdy WindyCity! Thanks for joining us here. I've noticed that you've posted the same information about the amp that you make and sell in several different threads in very quick succession. While we certainly encourage the sharing of information about new gear here at MBH, if you'll take a moment to read the forum rules (hover your mouse over BLUES HARP FORUM in the blue menu on the left hand side of the page, and click "Froum Rules"), you'll notice that it is expressly not allowed to make these kinds of posts (I'll paste the text below). This is just an FYI, and I hope you'll join in on the discussion here so that we can get to know you and your interests more! Also FYI, there IS a place for merchants on this site. There is a special "for sale" thread here in the main forum, and there is a special "for sale" sub forum. Both can be reached from the blue menu on the left. Thanks!
From the Forum Rules:
"It is against the interests of this forum to become a place where every thread is driven by some mercenary or commercial interest—the promotion of specific new harp-amp models, for example, in which forum members have a financial stake."
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