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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Mike Turk's role in early overblowing
Mike Turk's role in early overblowing
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kudzurunner
5515 posts
Jun 08, 2015
4:26 AM
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Back in 2009, in response to a query from me, Mike Turk wrote in detail about the role he played--not a large one, but definitely a role--in helping bring overblows into circulation. He says some important things about Howard Levy and, before him, Will Scarlett and Richard Hunter. I may have shared this before on this forum, but it's worth sharing again.
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Dear Adam,
Thanks for thinking of me and keeping me in your circle of discussions.
Firstly, to clear up the "Beans Taste Fine" point. This album was first released in early 1975 which means that the original recording session was spring/summer 1974. This could not have occurred any earlier because I didn't begin to even toot on the harp until the winter of 1966 when I first managed to clip one from my Dad's music store in Tallman, NY.
I had just heard the Butterfield Blues Band Elektra recording for the first time. Sonny Terry, Junior Wells, Charlie Musslewhite, Jimmy Reed and even John Mayall followed soon after that. I was even enthralled by the harp solos of the Yardbirds, The Kinks and even Paul Revere and the Raiders' "B" sides at the time. The clincher for me was watching the rhythm guitarist of the Youngbloods at the Cafe Au Go Go in the Village in 1967. He doubled on harp and took somekind of harp solo ( my standards weren't established yet) ,however, in the climax of his solo he dropped his double neck Guild solid body on his foot and didn't flinch........ what music !?!
I was hooked and then got a copy of Tony Glovers "Blues Harp" book. Honestly, that's how I learned to play!
All that said, the overblow notes came way after.
In the fall of 1973, I shared a house with singer/songwriter Richard Johnson and The brothers Hunter; Richard and Mark. Richard Hunter was working on his music degree at Harvard...on piano. However, he had a pretty progressive blues/rock band. I was trying to get something happening on the Alto sax. So, we would share the basement for practice and toss around harmonica facts. Richard Hunter was the first person to actually explain what an overblow note was and how to do it. He knew about Will Scarlett and somebody else (perhaps Howard, not sure).
We talked about a solo of Toots Thielemans from his record with Svend Asmussen. One cut, I think it's "Mr Nashville or"Spirit Feel". Toots gets very excited playing a solo on a G tuned blues harp in D and blurps out a minor 3rd on the 6 blow. It baffled me for months. Years later, I asked him about it,he modestly replied..."it just came out in the heat of the moment". This recording was made in November 22-23, 1972.
Will Scarlett was definitely playing this way in the 1960's, he had a "weird sound" back then and nobody really knew what he was doing on the thing. I think it was Peter Ivers who said he built his own harps and that he came and went like a ghost....one minute on the stage the next, gone!
I had heard Howard Levy's name back around 1975 but, it was truly Richard Hunter who really introduced me to Howard's sound. I'm sure Howard created this technique for himself being the consummate genius that he is. I never really followed Howard's origins on the harp though! However, it was Richard who explained to me that the blow notes do it and the really high draw notes as well. I don't believe all this is "pre- Howard". I'm sure someone like Carlos or even Howard himself could set this fact straight. Levy most probably talks about his very first overblow, doesn't he?
So, armed with that, I came up with a couple of licks that seemed to work. I had also figured out that the Koch/Hohner 10 hole chromatic would give me the same results using the lever but, it never really had the sound of the Marine Band or the 12 hole chromonica for that matter. I recorded a Bob Will's tune " Roly Poly" in 1976 on 45rpm. I tried to get some good use for the overblows on that tune but, mostly it's a cross harp solo.
I honestly have to say that I never really got very far with overblow technique and wasn't willing to put in the practice time to get it. Perhaps, if I was ever able to get the minor 3rd overblow on the 1 hole it could have changed everything for me. I'm satisfied with what the chromatic has offered me as far as being involved in jazz music. It suits the jazz horn phrasing much better for me....but that's a whole nuther' school!
Once again, Richard Hunter would also be a very good source of information. Please let me know if there is anything else I could provide for you. Did I ever send you a copy of my anthology " The Mouth That Roared"?
Mike Turk
www.miketurk.com
www.tinsandwichmusic.com
www.bostonblowup.com
MySpace.com - Mike Turk Jazz Harmonica - Boston, Massachusetts - Jazz - Bossa Nova - Blues - www.myspace.com-miketurkharmonicajazz
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jun 08, 2015 4:27 AM
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florida-trader
700 posts
Jun 08, 2015
5:32 AM
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I spoke with Will Scarlett on the phone for about an hour on Friday. He told me that back in the late 60's he played nothing but a G harp for about four years - regardless of the key the music was in. No doubt he was developing his overblow/overdraw skills. After four years he abandoned that approach becuase he felt he was focussing too much attention on being technical rather than musical.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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timeistight
1778 posts
Jun 08, 2015
7:11 AM
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On Harp-L last week, Richard Hunter wrote,I met Howard in the spring of 1973, when he visited a mutual friend at the university that I and the friend attended. At that point in time Howard was an astonishing player on piano, tenor sax, steel clarinet (which he played like a soprano sax), recorder, and harmonica. It was pretty scary to compare my own talents on piano and harmonica to his, I can tell you. I was advised by Howard that he had been playing harmonica for only two years at that point. As I recall, he was already overblowing with great facility; in other words, he already sounded like Howard Levy.
If my memory is true--and I have few memories so clear as this one, because Howard made one hell of an impression on me; it was one of the highlights of my college years--then after playing harmonica for two years, Levy was already an accomplished overblower with a thoroughly unique, heavily jazz-horn-influenced style.
As to Carlos Del Junco, I'm pretty sure he learned overblowing directly from Howard Levy at Howard's harmonica masterclass. Larry "Iceman" Eisenberg could tell you more since was at the same workshop.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 08, 2015 7:12 AM
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The Iceman
2499 posts
Jun 08, 2015
7:29 AM
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ah yes, the Golden Age of Augusta Heritage Center w/Howard Levy.
My story is that, when I ran out of harmonica instructors who could teach me something new (having gone through Phil Wiggins, Madcat, Gary Primich, Mark Graham, and more), I was told "You need Howard Levy".
Having never heard of him, went to see Bela Fleck and immediately signed up for Howard's week long master class at Augusta Heritage.
This was back in the early/mid 90's. At this class I met Roscoe, Carlos, Sandy Weltman, Paul Messenger and a handful of the best players at that time.
We all sat at Howard's feet and followed him around with tape recorders like baby chicks following the mother hen.
It changed our lives and this core group spread the message to our students and through our recordings/performances.
It was the beginning of that grass roots movement to change the harmonica paradigm, which echoes right down to this very day.
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The Iceman
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Littoral
1255 posts
Jun 08, 2015
8:06 AM
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I was there early too 89 or 90. Howard played us tapes of the Flecktone sessions before it was released. I wasn't ready to get what was available from Howard. It did set the bar and just his warm-up routine changed my playing forever. I too sent some echoes but was never quite evangelical about his playing. With some seriously notable exceptions I don't enjoy listening to his work.
That year, at the showcase event to close the program, Howard was playing Round Midnight and I was so happy to be recording it because I thought it was unreal and I'd have it forever. In the last 30 seconds my friend leaned over and pronounced "he's a f-ing showoff". Killed that recording, but point taken.
I think Jason's solo at the awards show captured the lineage from Butterfield through the innovators in between and was the best of how OB's and a 1000 notes actually work musically.
But then I get in my car and listen to William Clark and Kim Wilson.
Last Edited by Littoral on Jun 08, 2015 8:10 AM
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WinslowYerxa
869 posts
Jun 08, 2015
8:27 AM
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Will Scarlett taught me to overblow in1974 in San Francisco. He was calling it overblowing and using it, when I encountered him, to provide missing chromatic notes while playing in second position. I've told this story (and most of the rest of the content of this post) in greater detail elsewhere.
Later, in about 1996, I introduced Howard and Will for the first time at Will's home in Berkeley.
In 1929 Blues Birdhead used the first known recorded overblow on the first-position instrumental Mean Low Blues. It then disappeared until 1968 when Toots Thielemans, Will Scarlett, and Paul OScher all recorded using overblows.
Will recorded two albums with the Jefferson Airplane offshoot Hot Tuna. He played everything on a G harp, carefully using bends and overblows to play in a variety of keys. He later decided that overblowing was "unfriendly to the mammal" and used his knowledge of opening reed behavior and dual reed bends to come up with a one-cell prototype of what much later became the XB-40 in the hands of Rick Epping, who learned of the possibility from Will's patent journal, which I have witnessed.
Toots used a 6 overblow on a couple of diatonic tunes on a pair of easy listening albums recorded in 1968 (that have been issued a reissued under various names) where he mostly played either chromatic or guitar, breaking out a diatonic to play a couple of improvised blues numbers. He also may have (I have yet to verify this) used overblows on the soundtrack to the film In the Heat of the Night which dates a couple of years earlier.
Oscher told me that he used an overblow on a Muddy Waters record in '68; I don't have further details.
Chris Michalek, y the way, claimed to have learned to overblow from Mike Turk.
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 08, 2015 8:28 AM
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Diggsblues
1843 posts
Jun 09, 2015
9:41 AM
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I played with Mike in an ensemble at Turtle Bay Music School. Cham-ber and Robert Bonfiglio were the coaches. Mike played mostly chromatic. I don't remember anything about overblows back then.
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barbequebob
2943 posts
Jun 09, 2015
10:11 AM
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I've known Mike for many years and he was more than just pretty damned good at playing chromatic. For a number of years he also played jazz with a diatonic but for about the last 15 years, he plays pretty much strictly chromatic. He got grants from the National Endowment of The Arts not just to study under Cham-bEr Huang, but also to study under the great Toots Thielemans as well. When it comes to jazz harmonica, Mike's one of the very best out there.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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isaacullah
3029 posts
Jun 09, 2015
1:11 PM
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This is fascinating stuff!! What great information about the history of overblowing, and with so many primary source accounts too. The ethnographer/historian in me is really digging this. It seems like the mid 70's were a really cool time in he progression of modern diatonic playing... so much going on! I think this is one of the most interesting threads in MBH history. Would love to hear 1st hand accounts from Richard Hunter and Howard Levy too. I bet Richard would chime in on this if someone asked him politely. He seems to be a very forthcoming and helpful guy (from what I've seen at Harp-l and his own HunterHarp site). Thanks to all who contributed! I'm loving it!
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Gnarly
1374 posts
Jun 09, 2015
1:25 PM
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Oh yeah, while we are at it, I want to know who murdered Peter Ivers.
Was that case ever solved?
He was doing some very interesting things with diatonic, very progressive--interesting fellow, by all accounts . . .
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 09, 2015 1:26 PM
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timeistight
1781 posts
Jun 09, 2015
1:31 PM
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@isaacullah: Check out Pat Missin's article Who are the pioneers of the overblow technique? which seems to be the most definitive history available.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 09, 2015 2:51 PM
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kudzurunner
5521 posts
Jun 09, 2015
5:51 PM
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I agree, Isaac. Fascinating thread. Sometimes it seems as though we're endlessly rehashing more and more finely tuned versions of the same stuff. Here it feels as though we're crowd-sourcing a history that hasn't quite been written yet. So I will, at some point, hyperlink this thread at whatever spots on this website make the most sense.
I've told my own story of being taught overblows by William Galison in September of 1987 when I hung out with him at the Orange County performance center in Cali, just prior to joining "Big River."
A couple of years later--I'm guessing it was 1989 or 1990, or maybe as late as 1992--Howard gave a workshop in NJ, organized by Rob Paparozzi. $10-15 and there were about 25 of us. I was one of the only people in the room--it was a small hotel conference room as I remember--who overblowed. Howard was intrigued that somebody in the room actually OB'd.
Later, when it was over, I went up, shy, and asked him if he could play the opening riff to "Juke" in all 12 keys, sequentially. He said "Huh." Then he tried. He couldn't immediately nail every note, but watching him rise to the challenge was like watching a monster in some recent the-monsters-are-coming-for-us flick process and act in speeded-up real time. You could see all his knowledge and reflexes literally falling into place. It was awe-inspiring. He didn't pause to say, "Nah, that's silly." He just lit into the challenge. Within about 45 seconds, he was nailing everything.
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kudzurunner
5522 posts
Jun 09, 2015
6:03 PM
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timeistight: That's a fascinating article; it taught me much. But from my perspective, as a blues harmonica player, it stops too early. None of the clips that he offers--not a single one--offers a 4 or 5 OB in cross harp. And none of them really suggest what a blues harmonica player might do with those three overblows in cross harp, much less third position.
I'm not familiar with Will Scarlett's work, although I've met the man and he's memorable.
It feels to me, from Pat's article, as though blues players, as a group, may have stumbled across an OB from time to time, but just weren't interested. Blues Birdhead WAS interested. That's why this subject is fascinating. The OB note wasn't a curiosity to him; it was part of his vision.
I want to know more about Howard's influence in the mid-1980s, before he taught William and William taught me. I'm throwing lots of 4, 5, and 6 OBs into my amplified harp on HARLEM BLUES (most of which was recorded in 1990), and OBs are all over Carlos's debut, BLUES, with Bill Kinnear, which came out a year or two later:
http://www.amazon.com/Blues-Bill-Kinnear-Carlos-Junco/dp/B00000JJPB
I want to know about the mid-1980s in Chicago. Was Howard teaching this stuff to the Chicago harp guys?
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timeistight
1782 posts
Jun 09, 2015
6:16 PM
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'I've told my own story of being taught overblows by William Galison in September of 1987 when I hung out with him at the Orange County performance center in Cali, just prior to joining "Big River."'
But who taught them to William Galison?
It seems that a number of players throughout the years independently discovered overblows and/or overdraws. Pat Missin's article mentions Blues Birdhead, Ernie Morris (The Harmonica Rascals), Don Les (The Harmonicats), Toots Thielemans, Paul Oscher, Will Scarlet and himself in this group. There must have been many others.
But it was Howard Levy who really proselytized for them as a viable musical technique. I don't think we'd have all the great overblow players we have today without Howard.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 10, 2015 12:24 AM
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isaacullah
3030 posts
Jun 10, 2015
9:30 AM
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timeistight: You know, I'd thought I'd been over every inch of Pat Missin's excellent site, but I'd never caught that particular article! Cool read, and, as a summary article, certainly fills in some of the gaps. I still think it would be way cool to have all the primary accounts collated together, and this thread seems to be doing that. There was a link in Pat's article to Howard Levy's primary source account of how he learned to OB. I'll link it here in an attempt to collate all these great stories in one thread!
Howard Levy's story of how he learned to overblow
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Michael Rubin
1044 posts
Jun 10, 2015
11:59 AM
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He probably wouldn't want me to reveal this, but Rick Estrin taught me how to overblow.
But I'll give credit to Larry and Adam for giving me more incentive to really get them down.
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Gnarly
1376 posts
Jun 11, 2015
9:21 AM
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Hi kids,
Will Galison was kind enough to let me know that he learned to overblow from Howard, when Will was in Chicago doing the national tour of Big River, around 1985.
Wow, that's 30 years ago!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 11, 2015 9:26 AM
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WinslowYerxa
872 posts
Jun 11, 2015
9:52 AM
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Ernie Morris is questionable - no recordings are extant, and the only source for this claim that I'm aware of was known to make false claims about other matters. This could have been a case where the term "overblow" was confused with high blow bends, as still happens.
Don Les didn't record overblows until the 1990s (but even then used them sparingly), although he related an experiences that might have been a dream about an unknown man who entered his dressing room, played a complete chromatic scale on the diatonic, and then vanished again
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Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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timeistight
1784 posts
Jun 11, 2015
2:57 PM
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Thanks for the information, Winslow.
Regardless of who else did or didn't independently discover overblows, my point remains that most of today's overblowers learned of them via Howard Levy, either directly or indirectly
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Gnarly
1377 posts
Jun 11, 2015
3:08 PM
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Certainly I did, I went to Flecktones concerts to peer at Howard's pedals to see what pitch shifter he was using, only to find him using a wireless microphone and roaming the stage and audience--big surprise!
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