|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Instrument player vs. Musician
Instrument player vs. Musician
Page:
1
STME58
1314 posts
Jun 03, 2015
2:06 PM
|
I have been thinking about this a bit and while it may be "just" semantics I think it is useful to think about and I would like to hear others opinions.
You can have great skills on an instrument, know all your scales, chords, theory, sight reading etc. and still not be able to contribute to a group in a way that makes the whole greater than the sum of the parts. On the other hand you can be limited in skills and still have that something that makes you in demand as a musician. (I learned that Billie Holiday had less than a one octave vocal range, but look what she did with it!)
What is it that one needs to work on to move from being one who can play an instrument, to a musician?
|
CarlA
788 posts
Jun 03, 2015
2:09 PM
|
I remember Adam saying something to the effect that his definition of a musician is someone who can keep musical time, groove, etc. or something to that effect. It was stated on one of his YouTube instructional videos I believe.
Last Edited by CarlA on Jun 03, 2015 2:09 PM
|
BronzeWailer
1693 posts
Jun 03, 2015
2:50 PM
|
I think it has to do with feeling, letting yourself go, letting the muse call to you, and focusing on the song/emotion rather than technique. That said, I still have miles to go on the technique.
Adding: My singer teacher focuses a lot on technique, but then she will say, when it comes time to perform, forget about focusing on technique and just sing. When I am performing and in the zone, I am not thinking actively, just letting it flow. Same thing on the soccer pitch.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
Last Edited by BronzeWailer on Jun 03, 2015 3:47 PM
|
JustFuya
786 posts
Jun 03, 2015
4:46 PM
|
I think an instrument player can hit appropriate notes at the proper time. A musician emotes.
|
ted burke
261 posts
Jun 03, 2015
4:51 PM
|
I think a musician is someone who is ready to play whatever needs to be played, period. Musicianship is a profession, not a hobby. Those who play instruments have varying degrees of ability, of course, but a musician , in the sense I suspect most of us mean it, is someone who has a skill set sufficient to make a living at it.
----------
Ted Burke
__________________
http://www.yourURL.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
|
nowmon
36 posts
Jun 03, 2015
4:53 PM
|
A blues being will sing from their soul,don`t think about book work.
|
Gnarly
1367 posts
Jun 03, 2015
4:54 PM
|
I had a conversation with Will Galison (lucky me) where I was trying to express my appreciation of his delivery, and I stumbled onto what I think is the quality Steve is seeking to quantify.
Perspective--being comfortable with your ability so that you can concentrate on the context of the musical performance and the Big Picture.
And this also pertains to the "speed kills" thread, fast passages make more sense when they are part of an overall picture and not just fluff.
|
Komuso
616 posts
Jun 03, 2015
5:08 PM
|
You also need to distinguish between Musician and Entertainer.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Learn Harmonica Faster
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
|
Barley Nectar
820 posts
Jun 03, 2015
8:50 PM
|
I call my self a musician. Have for years. When you have the respect of your musician peers, You are a musician. JMO...BN
|
STME58
1315 posts
Jun 03, 2015
10:24 PM
|
Thanks for the thoughtful responses. What stands out to me is;
Timing is everything.
Practice/study think in the woodshed so things flow without thinking in the performance.
Feel don't think. Emotion and passion trump technique. Technique is good but it must be ingrained so you aren't thinking about it. (It is hard to be passionate if you are worried if you are going to pull off the fast run or overblow.)
Earn the respect of your peers.
Entertaining and musicianship are separate things.
It might be possible to be a virtuoso and still not be a musician!
|
jbone
1958 posts
Jun 05, 2015
3:20 AM
|
Timing is crucial as are chops. What holds a skill set together in a way that fits though, is manners.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTwvU-EN1Q
|
dougharps
927 posts
Jun 05, 2015
7:49 AM
|
"Instrument Player" and "Musician" are nouns, each implying a fixed identity. They are presented as mutually exclusive for purposes of discussion.
"Music" is a noun that should be a verb. Musical performance (Music-ing?) is dynamic, fluid. Time is a dimension of making music, as is pitch, timbre, volume and attack of notes, number of notes, rests, etc.
None of us are either an "Instrument Player" or "Musician" as this is a false dichotomy. These are descriptions of different skill set ranges. None of us are constantly the same in our performances.
But as to the intent of the post, I believe that there is an element of solo and group music performance that cannot be defined using words, but can be heard and recognized when you hear it.
Immanence of the Muse? Inspiration?
These are the moments when all is right, one with the music. As soon as you try to define it, it is gone...
*********************************
The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 05, 2015 7:55 AM
|
Rgsccr
343 posts
Jun 05, 2015
8:48 AM
|
For me, a perfect illustration of this distinction was a performance I heard a couple of weeks ago from a highly touted guitarist and vocalist. This guy has a great voice, awesome guitar chops and a feel for the blues. He was playing with a group of long-time blues pros. The first song showed off his abilities and wasn't too over the top, but, after that, he played louder, faster and pretty much ignored the rest of the band. It was exhausting to listen to him. He made it clear to the audience (and, per one of the band members who told me this later, to the musicians) that this was all about him - not about the music or the rest of the band. To me, that is an ego-driven instrument player who is not a musician. Clearly, the music and the rest of the players were there to serve him, not the other way around. Now, maybe he was nervous and showing off in a new environment (he'd just moved into town), but if I heard him play this way again I don't think I'd stick around very long.
|
ted burke
265 posts
Jun 05, 2015
12:37 PM
|
Ego driven is not NECESSARILY a bad thing. I look for quality, whatever speed a soloist is driving. Miles Davis was ego driven, Picasso was ego driven,Norman Mailer was ego driven. All three remain tremendously controversial in some circles due to the nature of the work and the way they lived,but had palpable genius that changed the way jazz, painting, and journalism, respectively, came to be viewed and discussed. Sometimes the man or woman hogging the spotlight deserves the spotlight.
----------
Ted Burke
__________________
http://www.yourURL.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
|
nacoran
8505 posts
Jun 05, 2015
3:38 PM
|
When I was in grade and middle school I was in band. Maybe it was the lousy acoustics in the band room, but basically you couldn't hear the other parts. You just looked at the guy waving the wand and counted your part. There was nothing musical about it. When I practiced I tried to learn things note for note. There was nothing particularly musical about the whole thing. When I switched to choir I at least had enough control over my voice that I could *try* to be musical- to blend with the other voices.
One of the first songs I learned on harmonica was 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star'. I remembered the note patterns from my band lessons all those years ago. Now I play a jazzed up version for fun with all sorts of inflection.
I can entertain people. Sometimes you'll hear a guy who can play a few chords on guitar and belt out a song someone else wrote well enough so people will sing along.
To play with other musicians you need to be able to count time, but there are so many different components of making music- time, lyricism, innovation, being able to play off of someone else, being able to engage the audience, being able to communicate with other people during a performance...
I think it's quite possible that there are lots of combinations of those skills that might be missing one or two skills that will produce a 'musician'. I have a drummer friend who talks about people who play in 'folk time'. They get up on stage with their guitar and their voice and play, but they don't keep straight time. Their voice and guitar are in time with each other- sometimes they are taking dramatic licence with the beat and sometimes they just don't have the beat. Still, they can entertain people. Some people can only play the chord progression and couldn't play the melody if their live's depended on it, but can still entertain with good lyrics or passion.
I don't think any one thing can rule someone out but it gets progressively harder the fewer tools you have.
And that's even before you get into the cultural connotations... 'musicians' well, they are a breed of no good layabouts who are always late with their rent,... from what I've heard. :)
There are technical aspects of performance, and there are creative aspects, and charismatic aspects. If you have enough of any two you can probably fake it, but I'd still rather be a triple threat.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
wolfkristiansen
362 posts
Jun 05, 2015
11:23 PM
|
"What is it that one needs to work on to move from being one who can play an instrument, to a musician?"
This is going to get me in trouble. I am not sure one can work on being a musician. You either are, or you are not. If you are, you can perfect your musicianship with practice. If you are not, no amount of practice will make you a musician.
Think about some of the other arts. Do you have a friend who can easily draw, easily paint, in a way you know you never can? I do. You would not strive to be a painter (Picasso, not a house painter) if you understand you do not have the talent your friend has. I accept that I will never be an artist like my artistically gifted friend. It isn't hard to accept.
Have you known someone who seems to effortlessly string words together in a beautiful, poetic way? Have you, at some point in your life, realized you could never do this? If you have, you will not enrol in writing school. It might improve your writing, but it will not make you a poet.
This is not to say the less musically gifted should give up. For blues harmonica-- work on your technique (which is merely a tool), and, when it comes time to play... feel! Let your soul shine.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
|
Barley Nectar
823 posts
Jun 06, 2015
7:58 AM
|
No trouble here Wolf. I'll agree with that...
|
Gnarly
1372 posts
Jun 06, 2015
8:37 AM
|
I like what Wolf wrote, and would like to add:
Tell a story. Use the tools you are comfortable with to let a story tell itself.
|
1847
2404 posts
Jun 06, 2015
3:15 PM
|
Dr. Dre took home $620 million this year before taxes, thanks largely to that deal, making him the world’s top-earning musician of 2014. More remarkably, that number also marks the largest single-year haul of any musician, ever.
|
SuperBee
2639 posts
Jun 06, 2015
4:00 PM
|
It seems likely that language is a development of music. If you can speak, string words together in your mind, you should be capable of music. But just as some have problems getting the words out, so it is with music. These barriers to expression can operate on different levels. In terms of the OP, musical expression goes beyond development of facility with an instrument, but such development is an important aspect of musical expression.
I do think there is a strong analogy with public speaking and conversation. Preparation and confidence (which comes partly from preparation) are part of it, especially for soloists. But, just as the art of conversation relies on listening and sensitivity, so it is when playing music in an ensemble. Whether or not one has anything to say which others will find interesting is another point entirely, but if one can express feelings, it is always relevant in some way.
|
Post a Message
|
