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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Rethinking My Thumbs Up Mic Grip
Rethinking My Thumbs Up Mic Grip
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harpoon_man
100 posts
May 10, 2015
5:51 AM
I'm a pretty experienced amplified player and am satisfied with my ability to push an amp, but I tried something today that made me rethink my go-to "thumbs up" mic grip that I have always used.

Going all the way back to when I fist started playing amplified (favorite mic: JT30), the thumbs-up grip has been the mic technique I have used. It gives me plenty of control over the seal on the mouth/harp/hand/mic system, and this grip gives me the ability to put the harp far back in my mouth like I like it with a wide open jaw while playing. This is the grip I have used exclusively since I started playing amplified in the late 1990's.

But yesterday when I had my Bassman out, practicing in my living room, I thought to myself, "why not try a traditional grip (with the harp between my left thumb and forefinger, thumb up on the right side) and see what that sounds like?" So I did it and was amazed that the sound was louder, fuller, and more articulate than the sound I was getting with the thumbs up grip.

I experimented with both grips, and even adjusting the tightness of the cup all over the map, I was unable to get the same quality of sound with the thumbs up grip that I was getting with the traditional grip. This surprised me a lot b/c I feel like I can't get the harp as far back in my mouth with the traditional grip, and I can't get as tight of a seal on the mic using this method.

I was wondering if maybe the traditional grip makes a more resonant mouth/harp/hand/mic system due to a greater extent of finger contact vs. more contact with the meatier parts of the hand with the thumbs up grip? Has anyone around here experimented with switching grips and experienced similar results?

In any event, this has me re-thinking my mic grip strategy, and I'll be putting more work into mastering the traditional grip.
Rgsccr
334 posts
May 10, 2015
11:27 AM
I would be very interested in what others think about this as well. My experience experimenting last night with the thumbs up grip, having always used the traditional grip, was kind of the opposite - that is, it seemed that I got a fuller tone and better cup. Now, I didn't hook up my amp (also a Bassman), so this was acoustic. I also found the thumbs up grip pretty awkward feeling, although if it really helps me, I'm sure I can become more comfortable with it. I assume that a number of people with opine that either grip (and probably some others) can work well, and that it is more a matter of how you are employing whatever grip you use, but, like harpoon_man, I am curious what others think. It did occur to me that one's physiognomy, how big or small your nose or hands are, etc., might have something to do with what will work the best for you. Me, I have relatively small hands and a big nose.
isaacullah
3005 posts
May 10, 2015
11:37 AM
I think it depends on the mic and your hands. I've got an electro voice 635a stick mic (same basic shape as the RE10), and the thumbs up grip just doesn't work that well with it. The traditional grip works very well. But with a "ball" mic (sm58 shape), I find very little difference between the two grips. I don't use bullet mics, so am not sure which grip I'd prefer for something like a jt30.
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Last Edited by isaacullah on May 10, 2015 11:38 AM
Philosofy
692 posts
May 10, 2015
12:26 PM
Can we get pics of what grips you guys are talking about?
A440
378 posts
May 10, 2015
12:45 PM
With both bullet and stick mics, I have always used the "traditional" grip, with the harp in my left hand between thumb and forefinger. My right hand closes the cup, with thumb up (sometimes using that thumb to block the top 2 or 3 holes).

I have tried the "two thumbs up" approach, but find that I cannot get a good seal at the bottom, between chin and hands/mic. So I never used that method on stage.

Funny, as a 9 year-old playing my first Marine Band, I used "two thumbs up", only years later did I learn to hold the harp between thumb and forefinger.

Last Edited by A440 on May 10, 2015 12:49 PM
harpoon_man
101 posts
May 10, 2015
3:03 PM
For some examples, here's Jason Ricci holding a bullet mic with the traditional grip:



And here's Charlie Musselwhite with the thumbs up grip:

hvyj
2684 posts
May 10, 2015
4:03 PM
I've never considered the thumbs up grip and the traditional grip to be either/or. As an electric player, I consider the mic to be part of my instrument. The grip used effects the timbre and response of the mic. So I alter my grip depending on what sound I am after for the particular material I am playing. FWIW.
Greg Heumann
2995 posts
May 10, 2015
4:08 PM
My personal experience, having coached a lot of players on cupping/amplified tone - is that the two thumbs up grip makes it much harder to seal underneath - but some guys are effective at it - it depends to some extent on facial shape.

Remember that a full cup means airtight, which in practice is hard to achieve but when you're there you can't get a sound out of the harp. If you cup as tightly as you can and still get sound, then air pressure, by definition, must be escaping somewhere. You can use masking tape to find out where. First, seal off holes 5-10 on the front of the harp and make sure the rest of the harp is in your mouth using TB to reduce the number of notes played. If you can't completely mute the harp with your cup, you're leaking out the back. Now remove that tape and tape-seal the entire back of the harp. If you can't completely mute the harp with your cup, you're leaking out the front. It is possible to play/ acoustic or amplified with just the tiniest teensiest leak and get sound- and that results in the fattest tone. Of course you open up frequently but if you can't get to full mute, you can't know how far away from it you are.



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/Greg

BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
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Last Edited by Greg Heumann on May 10, 2015 4:09 PM
Mirco
259 posts
May 10, 2015
6:11 PM
Great tip on using the tape. Thanks, Greg.
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nacoran
8484 posts
May 10, 2015
7:42 PM
I got no chin, so I can't seal unless I've got my thumb underneath. Even using a stick mic I use a standard grip. If only my goatee was airtight I could use the thumbs up.

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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
harpoon_man
102 posts
May 11, 2015
5:44 AM
@ Greg, good tips about sealing. Without taping anything, I can get a pretty tight seal with the thumbs up grip while holding a mic - tight enough that the 10-blow sounds under normal draw playing pressure. However, I can't get the seal nearly that tight with the traditional grip, so I'm thinking there may be other factors at play beyond airtightness...I dunno, I'll keep experimenting with both grips.
Buzadero
1233 posts
May 11, 2015
5:56 AM
"If only my goatee was airtight I could use the thumbs up."

Lard. Old school lard, Nate. Get going.


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ridge
612 posts
May 11, 2015
8:03 AM
Greg, you need to make the Face-a-tizer. Could be a prosthetic chin mold in the style of your favorite players.

* Paul deLay
* William Clarke
* Many More

Collect them alllllll!
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2chops
386 posts
May 11, 2015
9:25 AM
@ridge...That's hilarious! Greg could make a special set of Face-a-tizers so you could swap out for doing the particular artists song. Makes the sound more authentic that way. And you know what? Some folks would actually buy them. Pet Rock come to mind?

Good one.
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I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
nacoran
8486 posts
May 11, 2015
11:57 AM
Ridge, why limit yourself to harp players? I mean, yeah, those guys happened to pick up a harp, but if you really want to maximize your performance, wouldn't you rather have a Leno?

Buz, why didn't I think of that! (Although my doctor would probably find some way to blame my cholesterol on it.)

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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
garry
571 posts
May 11, 2015
5:32 PM
@greg: I tried the tape trick, but my bandmates made me cover holes 1-10.

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nacoran
8487 posts
May 11, 2015
6:41 PM
Garry, sounds like you need a 12 or 14 hole harp! That'll teach em. Those high holes can be murder. :)


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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
Danny Starwars
156 posts
May 12, 2015
12:26 AM
This is bizarre. After reading this I went from trad (my usual way of playing) to thumbs up with a Green Bullet and - woah. It might just be the way my hands and face are (LOL) but I get a much better sound out of my bullet with the thumbs up way of playing. I haven't tried my stick mic yet.

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Greg Heumann
2998 posts
May 12, 2015
9:33 AM
You guys crack me up.
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***************************************************
/Greg

BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Scotty16
22 posts
May 14, 2015
11:56 PM
hi I know the right mic for you it is called the Microvox harmonica mic and it is a small beast fits between fingers I have a picture underneath.
If this helps could you post again that would be great.
http://www.microvox.demon.co.uk/images/harmhold.jpg


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