about overblows: he said he loves them but doesn't necessarily see them as the future. 'I've never listened to a Kim Wilson album and thought, "If only he could overblow ..." '
JR isn't only hyper talented, he's so grounded and generous and gracious.
I have been trying to do overblows, still failing though lol.
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For me, listening for overblows was part of a learning curve in which, at a certain point, I found myself frustrated by the fact that when I went out to concerts, I could hear what 95% of players were doing. I could auto-translate in my head. I got tired of the relentless conservatism and recycling mentality of traditionalist players. I got tired of hearing Big Walter note-for-note recreations.
I wanted to hear something that confused and exhilarated me, that set me back on my heels. Hearing Paul de Lay, or William Clarke on the chrom, met that standard. So did Dennis Gruenling when he was playing in 12th position. Ditto Sugar Blue, in second and third position.
Kim Wilson fell into in a slightly different category--and he still does. I can hear every single thing he does, at least in second position. But when I listen to his stuff, I hear a combination of perfect sound (or a perfect choice from a range of available sounds), perfect groove, and continually unexpected choice of note-durations. In that respect, he's taken a lesson from jazz. He never sounds tired, because he's always creating something new.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on May 05, 2015 4:41 AM
I'm at a halfway point - almost all the people I play to are not Blues fans and wouldn't know any of the greats if they tripped over them. It that context I'd LOVE to become a real faithful representative of their style, but too, I long to be able to play notes that - without overblowing - just aren't there. Without being able to do that at some stage, I'd feel stale and like I had never grown.
I'd like to be able to go in both directions from where I am; be better at the tradition sound and also nail the overblow.
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It would probably benefit you to first stop considering the use of overblows and the pursuit of "traditional" sound as two different directions.
To me, it's just the next logical step to using the entire instrument instead of having to compromise and put in substitute notes; the ability to play the harmonica like an instrument and less like a harmonica.
I meet plenty of players who haven't even nailed blow bending on 8,9, and 10 (bends that we consider "normal" or "traditional") so it's no surprise that overblowing eludes many.
Jason recently told me a story about a pianist that started playing harmonica and, because they could already perceive the notes they wanted to get, wound up executing overblows without knowing that they weren't supposed to be able to do that! ---------- Ridge's YouTube
Rains it pours. Thanks for posting that quote. I've studied JR a lot and I've had trouble accomplishing his (Pats) triplet stuff -of course. I have much of the speed, I'm precise but hearing it right has been tough. Yesterday I was finally getting to Adam's Crossroads and those fancy phrases (which came quick, thanks Kudzu) and noticed he was kind enough to add the little JR line at the end of the lesson. The one part of the triplet I was missing, Bam - Protect the women and children (and cats). But I've always been a traditionalist in the Kim Wilson camp. Tone is it. That would be one of the reasons I had a lesson with Gruenling last week, me and Pat Ramsey's son Clyde, just to maximize the synergy here. It went great, btw. So given my schizophrenic adventures it's pretty cool to hear JR say, 'I've never listened to a Kim Wilson album and thought, "If only he could overblow ..." ' Yes, he's really grounded and generous and gracious, and so is Adam.
agree ridge....I have not mastered blow bends on 8,9 and 10....when I do then maybe I can give OB a shot....actually achieving an effective throat vibrato is way more important to me....
Learning overblows early on allowed me to create my sound, while being influenced by OBers and non-OBers.
Everybody plays different. Learn what is you. Heck, I know some great players that play only 2nd position and never beyond hole six.
I don't compare overblows to blow bends. Other than blowing. I wish I could sit down for five minutes with someone struggling with overblows. Most people don't realize the problem may be embouchure. Keep in mind, and I picked this up from Jason.....To play faster phrases and runs using all style notes available (blow, draw, blow bend, draw bend, overblow, and overdraw) you need to keep the embouchure steady. If you have to totally reshape your mouth to change from one type note to the next, it will slow you down and kill your fluidity. ---------- www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
And I guess I'll clarify my earlier comment about players not being able to blow bend the 8, 9 and 10 hole. I'm not saying that blow bending is the SAME as overblowing 4, 5, and 6, but it's also not vastly different.
Consider this, can you find me an example of somebody who can overblow well, but CAN'T blow bend?
Sorry, not trying to turn this into a discussion about overblowing. I understand the OPs point that Jason doesn't wish other players did certain things differently than they do them; Adam encapsulates that point with his description of Kim. ---------- Ridge's YouTube
Last Edited by ridge on May 05, 2015 9:35 AM
" If you have to totally reshape your mouth to change from one type note to the next, it will slow you down and kill your fluidity."
Harpdue61, that is a really key point! Are you a brass player? Any book on brass will hammer this point home.Brass tempts you to shift your embouchure for very high and very low notes. Just because you can sound a note, doesn't mean it will fit in well, unless you can fit it in smoothly with other notes. This applies to harmonica overblows and brass pedal tones.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 05, 2015 10:47 AM
Thanks for posting that clip of Dennis, ridge. That's the one: the one, back in 1999, that got me excited. No trad blues players were playing 12th--at least not like that! And it sounds completely right, completely natural. On a low harp, to boot. THAT is what innovation sometimes sounds like: once you've heard it, you go "Of course!" It should have been there all along. It WAS there all along. But nobody had done it, really. (Of course Howard could have done it, but he didn't--not like this, in a straight-ahead jump-combo context.)
Sometimes innovation is far out and mind-blowing: the Sugar Blue effect. But sometimes it's just something entirely comprehensible, once you hear it, rather than mind blowing, but something that hasn't ever been done. Once it's added to the mix, it sounds as though it's been there all along.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on May 05, 2015 12:05 PM
Ridge: "It would probably benefit you to first stop considering the use of overblows and the pursuit of "traditional" sound as two different directions."
I might not be saying it right, but while I would also like to keep progressing, a part of me LOVES the more traditional sound 'as it is', and would always like to do a bit of channelling when required, just for the hell of it.
When I was younger I saw Darren (who posts here) with his band on a few occasions. I don't knjow if it was concious for him, but he would at times channel different Blues greats. One time I saw him with a Telecaster and I swear I heard some Albert Collins-like attack in his playing that night. Another time I saw him with a Gibson semi-acoustic (or a copy?) and he was very BB King that night. On neither occasion did he stretch things in a new direction, but it was like getting into a warm bath with ________ (insert fantasy crush here) to hear him!
When I was a teenager I managed to interview Brownie McGhee for a crappy student radio station (almost unthinkable for me, given the out-of-the-way country I live in!); when I told him at the end of the interview how much he and ST had meant in my life, and that I had taken up harp, he autographed a record for me, putting "Keep the faith" under his name. He may do that will all his sigs lol but it really stuck in my mind that as well as innovation, the sharing of the more traditional sound in each generation is a great thing.
The reason trad/innov seem in different directrions to me is that I have yet to hear someone going in a new direction while still having a really anchored tradition sound, WHILE they are doing it (there are players that probably do both styles separately); anyone have a clip that would be useful here, I would appreciate it :D
Again, I'm not sure how clearly I've written this - it seems clear in my head :/
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I think that Jason Ricci's "Down at the Juke"--the first two introductory choruses--come as close to what you're talking about as anything I know. Very traditional grooves, very modern, overblow-heavy way of moving through them:
danny starwars ,have you tried to OB on a high G? i find the 6 OB to be the most useful in blues playing.oh,and the easiest :)
i started to get it on high G and worked down.a lot of my harps are set up so you CAN'T OB,haha.
......anyway,i am a firm believer that there will come some players that don't necessarily overblow,that will knock it out of the ballpark! ---------- www.shakeylee.com
That DG track from his Jump Time CD was my inspiration to learn OB and then couple of years a later an American cat told me he OB TB'd!!!!!!!!!! WHAT? And then it took months and months to learn that and now I don't even bother to OB!
