Harp Study
81 posts
Apr 29, 2015
5:49 PM
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I've got a dumb question, but do you typically use the same key reed plate for a donor reed?
I'm attempting my first reed replacement. I've got a dead 4 draw on a C harp and a dead 5 draw on an A harp (both special 20's); so I thought I would pull a reed off one and fix the other, but figuring out which donor reed to use is posing a problem. I figured I could tune a reed up or down by a 1/2 step or even a full step, but I'm getting a much further gap if I keep the same length reeds.
Thanks in advance for any help provided.
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STME58
1294 posts
Apr 29, 2015
6:03 PM
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T Here are others on the forum much more adept at this than I, but I have had success cutting down a longer reed to make it work. The gap at the end is critical, the smaller the gap the better, as long as it does not hit. If you can find a reed the right length that is preferable. I have in the past filed down a reed from another brand that was too wide and made it work. That is not something I will try again though, too much work!
A tip I got from others on this forum that works well is Blue tac on the tip of the reed if you need to lower the pitch quite a bit.
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SuperBee
2573 posts
Apr 29, 2015
6:31 PM
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The slot sizes on sp20s are the same on all harps from G to C. That is, a 4 slot on a c is the same as a 4 slot on an A. So you can't simply swap a 4 slot reed from one to a 5 slot on the other (and vice versa)even though the reeds are tuned to produce a similar note. You could use a 5 blow on a 5 draw etc and retune. Or you can resize reeds to fit but of course they would likely need retuning unless you have info about specific reed mods that deliver close results. So I'd say what you need is a 4 slot reed for your 4 slot and a 5 slot for you 5 slot.
On sp20 Db to F, you will find the 4 and 5 slots correspond to the 6 and 7 slots of the G to C harps, so there are some alternative matchups to be had.
Richard Sleigh has made a handy PDF chart illustrating this. Search is site using the term "organise your reeds" or just google that term
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SuperBee
2574 posts
Apr 29, 2015
10:13 PM
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Oh, and slots 2&3 on Db to F (actually Db to HiG) correspond to 4&5 on G to C..so you could use the 2draw and 3 blow from a HiG to mend the 4 draw on your C and the 5 draw of your A...sorry, that probably doesn't help but I liked the notion.
Better search term is 'organise your replacement reeds'
Personally I buy new reeds from hohner in packs of 5. A lot cheaper than a new harp
But you could take the 5 blow from your C harp and mend your A harp by tuning it down to D. That seems the best match.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Apr 29, 2015 10:17 PM
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Harp Study
82 posts
Apr 30, 2015
5:58 AM
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STM 58 and SuperBee-
Thanks for the information. This has all been very helpful. I think I'm going to try to pulling the 5 blow off the C harp and mend the A harp as SuperBee suggested. I'll likely also try using the blue tac to lower the pitch. Several first here for me, so we'll see how it turns out.
That chart Richard Sleigh made looks very useful, but I need to take some time to dig into it more; which I will for sure do.
Thanks again for the wonderful information.
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SuperBee
2575 posts
Apr 30, 2015
7:01 AM
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Good luck! Not that it's really about luck. But sometimes you get lucky. The basic task of attaching the reed is fairly straightforward, lots of info and demo available. The big learning curve for me came with getting the reed aligned in the slot, and then making it play nice with others. Hard to teach, kind of an autodidactic process where things you've heard about suddenly have meaning
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Harp Study
83 posts
May 01, 2015
6:33 PM
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STME58 and SuperBee-
Just wanted to thank you again for the information. Got the 5 blow off the C and fixed the 5 draw on the A harp. Also the blu tack worked well for dropping the tuning. All in all it went pretty smoothly. We'll see how long it lasts, but for now I've got another A harp from an old broken harp.
Thanks again for the information.
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SuperBee
2576 posts
May 02, 2015
12:31 AM
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Great! I'm glad to hear it went well. did you use a screw?
i haven't done the blutack trick but i think i will give it a whirl. i assume it works to raise pitch as well
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eebadeeb
70 posts
May 02, 2015
4:08 AM
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Blutack will not work to raise the pitch. It will work great to lower as much as an octave with no problem. It would probably work to lower more than and octave except for the problem of fitting that much blutack on the end of the reed. It lasts for years even left in hot vehicles in the sun or freezing.
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arzajac
1637 posts
May 02, 2015
4:15 AM
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Blue-tak can only lower the pitch. If you place it at the base of the reed, it will have little effect.
Interestingly, if you place a big enough piece in the middle of the reed, it will have little effect on tuning, but it will dampen the sound. This can have an impact on tone (sometimes really nicely) and it's a quick-and-dirty way to eliminate torsional vibrations - the squeal you hear from overblows.
It's not the best way to deal with squeal, but it's quick and easy and something interesting to play with.
...Not to get too far off topic, but if you retune a G harp down to low-F using Blue-Tak, it will sound/feel/play very differenlty than the same model harp tuned to low-F from the factory...
...Back to the topic, about resizing reeds, when you take a lower/longer reed and snip it to the proper length for a higher reed (say, take a 3-hole reed to fix a 4 hole reed), the reeds mensur (thickness profile) will not be optimal for that note. You will be able to get it to the pitch you want, but it won't play as nicely as it should.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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SuperBee
2578 posts
May 02, 2015
8:51 PM
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Very good. Thanks for the info.
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snowman
97 posts
May 06, 2015
9:19 AM
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Richard Sleighs book has a chart----heres Hohner page- http://www.hohnershop.com/10-hole-diatonic-reeds/---------------notice The C harp has a "C5" And the G harp has a "C5" needs to be C5 not C4 etc--- http://rsleigh.com/downloads/TheMarineBandFieldSpottersGuide.pdf
Last Edited by snowman on May 06, 2015 9:21 AM
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GMaj7
681 posts
May 06, 2015
9:27 AM
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This topic comes up in every harp related forum and comes up quite frequently.
I'm just curious.. We have Andrew, Mike Peace.. and others who perform reed replacements for incredibly reasonable prices...
After everything is done.. and you have purchased the tools, tried to find donor reeds, re-tuned, checked in on the forum for advice, etc
Was it worth it? Did you save any money in your opinion?
I don't know what Andrew charges but Mike Peace will do it for $15. I charge $15 for Seydel repairs, $12 if I get just the reed plate.
I'm just curious. I would like to hear from the DIY players, not the techs.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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STME58
1301 posts
May 06, 2015
10:27 AM
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Greg, I think I get the gist of your question. In general, for jobs that require special tools and knowledge it makes much more sense, economically, to have and expert do it. I don't sharpen my own saw chains, I drop them off at the shop and pick them up sharp. If there were a place on my way to work I could drop harmonicas off to have reeds replaced, I would probably do that. I am somewhat intimidated by the whole process of mailing things back and forth. When I blow a reed, it is a toss up between buying a new reed plate and replacing the reed. This is frequently decided by weather I have a donor reed or not. Rockin Rons is on my way home from work, so replacing reed plates is very easy for me. At this point none of my harmonicas are highly customized. If they were, the choice would be replace the reed myself or send in to an expert.
I am also a bit of a do it yourself-er. I have always loved to take mechanical things apart and see how they work. I have worked in the past as both a bicycle and an automotive mechanic so I have accumulated quite a tool chest, both in hardware and in knowledge. I like tools so buying a few harmonica specialty tools was fun and adds to my general collection, even if it is not really cost effective.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 06, 2015 10:28 AM
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GMaj7
682 posts
May 06, 2015
11:38 AM
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STME58,
Thanks for your honest feedback and response. You have a unique set of circumstances. Possibly it works for you.
It seems that if a tech dares to suggest that it simply might not be cost effective, the guys who THINK they can do it get their jock straps all tight and insist they can do it and can save money and can't afford to send in for repairs, etc. etc..
But we never hear back from them. They disappear and then the next guy comes a long and the cycle starts over again.
I'm just curious.
Rockin Ron sells my universal reed replacement tool, btw.
.. and I would never sharpen my own chain saw!
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Honkin On Bobo
1312 posts
May 06, 2015
12:05 PM
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Can anybody list who is doing simple reed replacement for Special 20s? I'm interested, but it seems to be a moving target. Member Mark Prados (MP) used to, but he's outta the business now. Yes Andrew does repair and customization work, but my most recent visit to his site indicated that basic reed repair was on hold or something to that effect. Andrew, am I wrong about that?
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I loathe to do reed repair myself. I have a sizable boneyard. I recent trip to my local music store (non harp related) prompted me to ask the sales clerk what they were getting for special 20s these days. His answer: $42.
It's made me think I've either got to: a) find somebody that does reed repair at a reasonable price. b) start repairing them myself, or c) start scouring for one of those pack deals on the internet with a reasonable per harp price for a four-pak or six-pak etc.
Of the three, the least desirable option for me is b. I'd probably being sending a repairer a batch of six-harps to start. Each with one blown reed, but otherwise in good shape.
I gotta say, I wonder how Hohners doing, because $42 for a special 20 is just.....well, unacceptable.
EDITED To ADD: Just did a quick internet search, Rockin rons solo price is $41 which comports with what I found in my local market. you can get that down to $36 by ordering multiple harps. The Musicians Friend had a 5 special 20 in basic keys plus a case deal for $139. Which puts it under $30 per harp. That's sounds like a pretty good deal. Does anybody have experience with The Musicians Friend and was it a good one?
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on May 06, 2015 12:38 PM
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arzajac
1639 posts
May 06, 2015
2:09 PM
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Honkin - No, I don't do repairs on anything but my own custom harps anymore - I just don't have the time.
The thing about replacing reeds is that while it's a simple thing, so much can go wrong. If you distort the reed plate, the harp won't have as much power as it once did. If the reed has the wrong shape, it may swing through the slot fine, but it won't play well. Not to mention tuning....
It's sort of a catch-22 - if you want to be successful at working on harps, you need to be able to replace reeds. But to be successful at replacing reeds, you need to be skilled at working on harps (reed work, airtightness, tuning...)
So replacing your first reed can be a frustrating experience.
I am actually offering a workshop next weekend. A few folks had been asking for a workshop so that they can start offering repair services including reed replacement. They had been asking for quite a while so I made the time to make it happen...
"Can anybody list who is doing simple reed replacement for Special 20s?"
We'll see how it goes - I may be able to provide some names to add to the list in the future.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
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GMaj7
683 posts
May 06, 2015
2:29 PM
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Mike Peace does 'em.. and does great work from what I'm told
Tulsa has quite a harp community and he keeps them going
mmpeace@cox.net
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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SuperBee
2588 posts
May 06, 2015
3:05 PM
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I fix harps for players in Australia. I began mending my own because I could find no one here to do it at a price which made sense to me. I charge $15 to replace a reed, but I can't resist addressing other issues of tuning and playability. I have to stop doing that; it's far too time-consuming.
I was just fixing my own, and then a lady donated some broken harps so I repaired a couple for her as a thank you. Then MP referred a job to me. And as my own repairs were lasting well and those 2 folks were happy, when I saw a player complain about the cost of replacing her harps I offered to repair for her. Now it seem I always have a batch of harps to repair. It's not a business, but I've covered the cost of my tools and parts and learned a lot, and appreciate a lot more about how much there is to learn. And what can go wrong. I aim to send back a better harp than I received; one I'd be happy to have in my kit. It's very satisfying sometimes.
The best part is probably the good relationships.
Was it worth it? Well, now that I'm better connected I've actually found a couple people who repair at reasonable price in Australia, but not many... If I had someone who would repair and do what I do at the price I charge, there's no way I'd tool up and DIY
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Gnarly
1347 posts
May 06, 2015
3:42 PM
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I do Special 20s for $20, if it's just one reed, $5 more for two etc. I have a great stock of replacement reeds from donor plates. I specialize in SP20s, even tho I work for Suzuki.
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Harp Study
84 posts
May 06, 2015
8:02 PM
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I like to tinker with stuff and enjoy working on my harps. I just recently did my first reed replacement as stated above. I didn't buy any tools for it. Just used a hammer, anvil and punch that I already had and reused the rivet.
I might have just got lucky, but it went smooth. Time will tell how long it lasts though. They were both rough old harps so if I messed up no big deal. If I played custom harps I would for sure send them off, but I don't. Plus I hate going to the post office to send stuff. Those prices seem real fair though and you would know it was done right.
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Gnarly
1349 posts
May 06, 2015
9:47 PM
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Yeah, you got lucky.
Sometimes nothing goes wrong, but is that the norm? Not in my world.
Even with the proprietary tools I got from Suzuki, there are always surprises when you try to replace a reed.
The corollary to my slogan, "You can always improve a harmonica" is, "It's easy to spend too much time improving a harmonica".
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SuperBee
2589 posts
May 07, 2015
1:38 AM
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^ for sure.
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Honkin On Bobo
1313 posts
May 07, 2015
5:14 AM
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
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