bluemoose
1071 posts
Apr 21, 2015
5:32 PM
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Had a great jam last Saturday with timeistight up on Main Street. Did my 3 tunes with a good guitar player calling the tunes and singing. Couple minor tunes. Fun.
I hung around until the end and the host band invited me up again for their end of the night set. I love playing with these guys and we let loose.
Anywho...afterwards this guy comes up and tells me he really likes my attack, style, fills, solos, etc. Then he says he's working on an album and would I like to play on a tune? I'm kind of busy with my consulting work these days so I tried to line him up with another harp playing buddy who has thrown a gig at me in the past. Thought that was it but his pal who is also working on the album then came up to me and said no, we would really like you, would you re-consider?
So of course I caved. They've reached out on email now and are asking how much I would charge? What would the normal sort of rate be for adding harp to a tune?
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
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Last Edited by bluemoose on Apr 21, 2015 5:32 PM
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BronzeWailer
1664 posts
Apr 21, 2015
6:15 PM
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A friend who has done a lot of session work in Oz says he charges $250 for up to three hours and then an hourly rate after that. What is your time worth to you?
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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bigd
573 posts
Apr 21, 2015
9:58 PM
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In general I charge 175 per song or 350 for the day. I've gone lower with friends or inspiring musicians I want to support that have limited scratch!
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didjcripey
876 posts
Apr 22, 2015
1:43 AM
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Depends....
How good are you? Is the guy a professional or a hobbyist? How bad do you want to do it? Is it just a couple of fills or will the harp be foremost in the tune?
I reckon one tune should take you less than an hour; a hundred bucks is a good round figure.
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Apr 22, 2015 1:44 AM
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kudzurunner
5398 posts
Apr 22, 2015
4:54 AM
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Here in Oxford, I found myself paying other musicians $100 per song for a song or two.
I should probably raise my rates. When somebody emails me and asks me to do this sort of thing, I tell them $100 for one song, $150 for two. I do the session at a local studio; they email the stubs (as they're called) to Bryan, my engineer/producer. I drop by the studio and knock my part off in 60-90 minutes at most.
Union scale is quite a bit higher--more like the rate bigd quotes. If I lived in NYC, I'd probably charge that rate. I'd certainly charge $150 for the first song. The $350-for-the-day rate is if you're basically the sideman on an entire album--at least 4-5 tracks, I'd assume. That seems reasonable to me. Nobody has ever asked me to do that kind of work. In my experience, if I'm making an album, or recording a number of songs, I'm a member of the band and we're all just....making an album. Nobody is charging session fees.
Part of the cost is for the time it takes just to get to and from the studio. That's why my two-song rate is less than twice my one-song rate.
I'd be interested in hearing what Jason and Iceman charge for studio work. (I'm sure Jason was paid very well for the Johnny Winter stuff, but that's a whole different deal.)
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Apr 22, 2015 5:05 AM
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waltertore
2830 posts
Apr 22, 2015
6:13 AM
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I would charge what it is worth to me. Musicians historically sell themselves short and have in large created the terrible music scene of today. There is always someone willing to do it cheaper and in todays scene, do it for free and or pay to play. I had a guy ask me to play his wedding this summer. I told him I had no interest in it because I need an audience that comes to interact with me for Spontobeat to work. He kept on it and asked what would it take for me to play. I said $10k and he agreed. I told him I said that thinking he would drop it and said that I wouldn't do it for that or any amount. Life is too short to waste my time. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
my videos
Last Edited by waltertore on Apr 22, 2015 6:14 AM
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shakeylee
252 posts
Apr 22, 2015
7:17 AM
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YOU TURNED DOWN A WEDDING FOR 10K??????
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www.shakeylee.com
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waltertore
2831 posts
Apr 22, 2015
7:20 AM
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YES. I have been told I am eccentric..... Seriously, the mental anguish I go through doing background music is not worth 10k. I am too old to waste my time in meaningless crap. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
my videos
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Sarge
448 posts
Apr 22, 2015
8:17 AM
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Hey Walter, tell that guy I'll do it for 5K.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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dougharps
908 posts
Apr 22, 2015
9:37 AM
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The amount you charge is up to you. Prices vary by market. In the past an album was made at a studio, often funded by a label. The union offered the assurance of a reasonable payment for musicians.
Nowadays an album may be produced on a shoestring by bands of modest means and sometimes modest talent. Their album is a form of promoting their band, and may be done in a bedroom studio using a home computer or inexpensive recording desk.
What you should charge is up to you. I would suggest you consider the level of the band (national, regional, local?), the financial status of the band (if they are wanting to use a player who sat in with them at a jam they probably are not a big time operation using a big time studio and having a label), and your level of playing and experience in the studio.
Since you don't seem to be experienced in studio work and they want to hire you for the album, they may be trying to add your harp to the project at a low cost. Too high a quote might cause them to drop the offer.
If you play on the tracks you will gain studio experience, create a better bond with the band, and promote your own playing (make sure they will list you on the album credits!) You might receive other offers from other bands, and your playing will be circulated, making you a more valuable commodity.
When I first did a studio recording I under priced myself, but ultimately was hired by the studio for several other gigs later, when I charged more. A friend of mine who had done studio work on bass suggested that I never charge less than I would get at my day gig, counting prep time and the travel, etc.
My advice is that if you are just trying this out, think of it as a learning experience, promotion of your work, and an entry to future projects. Don't set your price so high that you miss a great opportunity.
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Doug S..
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Martin
805 posts
Apr 22, 2015
9:54 AM
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I would NOT try to make some sort of a statement with what I´d charge. (In fact, in your position I´d probably do it for free, or just transportation costs.)
It´s possibly good experience you´re getting in the studio, and, as Dougsharps say, could be an entry to future projects.
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barbequebob
2893 posts
Apr 22, 2015
10:26 AM
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Union scale varies depending on the area local and what's scale in NYC is often gonna be FAR different than, for example, Columbus, Ohio, and some locals, the scale may be more, but more often far less than if you were in the major recording areas of NYC, LA and San Francisco. I'd personally wouldn't record with anyone I really didn't know particularly well for less than $100 a pop, but if it's someone you know well, everything's negotiable.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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timeistight
1758 posts
Apr 22, 2015
3:04 PM
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Hey, that's great Brian! A real nice compliment to your playing.
About the charge, why not quote them a high rate and then offer to do free since they're fellow jammers?
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hooktool
164 posts
Apr 22, 2015
9:32 PM
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Why not be up front with them and ask them the question?
John
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indigo
96 posts
Apr 22, 2015
11:15 PM
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Where i live a friend of mine who runs a 'successful' band ie they play to packed gigs,told me that they put the word out that they needed a sax player for one track on their album.....(not a self produced one) and had guys ringing up who offered to basically do it for nothing.
And they weren't just bedroom tooters either.
He hired one and insisted the Label pay him 200$.
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kudzurunner
5399 posts
Apr 23, 2015
5:27 AM
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hooktool is right: one of the foundational principles of negotiation is to get the other guy to state his price first.
In this case, that would mean that the musician who has been asked to do the session should smile, say, "I'd love to work with you," and then ask "What do you think is a fair price for my services?" Or, alternately, "What's in your budget for this sort of session work?"
The advantage of phrasing it like this is that it forces all parties concerned to acknowledge explicitly that you are indeed performing work, and that work is normally compensated. People will take advantage of situations in ways that save them money, but nobody wants to look like a cheapskate. In this case, either the producer (and/or band) was expecting to pay for the harp player, or they weren't. If they were, you're in a negotiation, and I'd be truly stunned if you ended up with less than $75-100, even given your lack of experience. If they were hoping you'd play for free--take time out of your day, spend gas money, spend time in the studio giving them what they want, all for free--then you're forcing them either to scramble and offer you something, or say pointblank, "We were hoping you'd do it for free." That last line makes them look cheap. And it puts you in a perfect position to be real. "Well, I may not have a lot of experience, but I've got SOMETHING you want," you can joke with a twinkle in your eye. "So let's make it easy." Then ask for $75. They're just not going to cheapskate you down below that. If they do, I'd smile and say Sorry, I just can't do that.
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Little roger
73 posts
Apr 23, 2015
5:44 AM
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Not sure about the rates in the US but here, in Germany, we have had several guests on CDs over the years and it worked out at about €200 a session for a pro. Meaning that if the player is done after four hours, so be it. If it takes eight hours, same thing. Of course it varies depending in who and where. That's what I charge too.
If I were you and it's only one song and your experience is limited, so it for free +expenses. You'll learn a lot, have something on your cv and can refer to the recording in future - self-promotion.
R
Last Edited by Little roger on Apr 23, 2015 5:45 AM
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Goldbrick
969 posts
Apr 23, 2015
7:31 AM
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Unless they are a touring act making good money- I ask for expenses, lunch and a credit on the CD and a copy.
When I do drum beats for people I do charge $100 if I have to provide my own kit
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